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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 8:39:13 GMT -5
I have seen many times on here the advice to be pro-active with creating an exit strategy. Most recently baza suggested to hiddenmind : It is always a good idea to be prepared, no doubt. But I have some reservations about the timing of an exit strategy. Speaking for myself, I am a poor actor. If I thought that my marriage had a chance - even a 10% chance - of becoming good, there is no way I could try my hardest to make it work while at the same time making secretive appointments with lawyers, laying groundwork with good friends, and similar. Even researching divorce laws would affect my ability to give the marriage the best shot. (To be clear, I am not referring to my own marriage, which objectively speaking has zero chance of ever being considered a good one. Best I can hope for is having a friendly roommate, which is pretty much where it is at right now. My decision now is whether that is good enough for me for the rest of my life.) The very act of working on an exit strategy negatively affects the marriage. I cannot see how it could be otherwise, because a successful marriage needs both parties to be "all in" and if you are checking out the alternatives, you aren't all in. Of course, many of us here are in marriages that we know deep down will never be good. We are begging for crumbs hoping that a miracle happens. Or we are waiting for a specific thing to occur (kids out of the house, for example) to make the move. In those cases, one absolutely should plan ahead. It seems to me that an exit plan should start exactly when we realize that there is no real hope, and that any hope we still have is wishful thinking rather than reality. Unless you are a very good actor. how to upload pictures online
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Post by shamwow on Mar 6, 2018 9:46:34 GMT -5
As someone who is out here is my advice. Start now. But an exit plan is more than just finances and having friends to help you move and a lawyer to help you navigate the courts. A good exit plan works on getting your own shit together. It is looking at what this SM has done to you and taking this time to address those things. In my case I had to stop drinking. I had to get rid of the porn. I had to make sure I had the best relationship with my kids possible. In short I needed to be at peace before the battle started. For me this process started 2 years out. But the key is I stopped expending effort on fixing a marriage that was broken beyond repair and started trying to fix the one think I could... Myself. So step one on your exit plan is to work on yourself. By the time you actually exit, your goal should be to be a complete person and comfortable in your own skin. Of course, you won't be 100 percent healed. I wasn't. I had performance issues the first time I was intimate after I got out. And the second. But I had practiced getting my head in the right space and had an amazing partner in ballofconfusion to help me through that. Finally remember that an exit plan is exactly that. A plan. Your STBX gets a vote too. Mine went relatively smooth. greatcoastal for example? Not so much. Same with my lady ballofconfusion. It is good to have a plan, but work on yourself first.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 10:45:08 GMT -5
I 100% agree with working on yourself, shamwow, and I have been doing that independently of anything else. It is excellent advice for anyone.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 6, 2018 11:03:28 GMT -5
Actually, I have a friend who has been happily married for 25 years and she has an exit plan. She has a secret account with money building up like crazy and she makes sure they are always living within their means. She has no plans of exiting, but she COULD. I always found that fascinating. She has taught her daughter to be prepared as well. I know this friend really well and know that they have sex at least 3 times a week (she wouldn't lie to me). She said most of the time it's just "do it to do it" but at least a couple times a month it's "WOW".... and that's after 25 years. (She's my hope and inspiration and proof that happy sex in a marriage can exist). But SHE has an exit plan. She could leave. She is choosing not to.
ETA: Is it "deceitful"? I don't think so. It's HER money - she is choosing to save SOME of it, a little at a time. She said she knows she is never leaving - the money will be used FOR THEM sometime in the future (and she has pulled out of it in the past for him). Money is a BIG reason many don't leave. It's smart to have something socked away. She didn't grow it overnight. But, it's there.
I admit that I do have my own private savings account, too. But my husband has his own, too - I don't know how much he has in it but I know it's there. I put what I can in mine (it's not much) and I just like having it there.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 6, 2018 11:10:30 GMT -5
Back to the topic from OP, though...
Yes, I agree with Shamwow. Work on yourself. Your spouse with either come with you to live this life with you or not. It's not lying or deceitful to work on yourself -- to be healthy, to clean up finances, to work on degrees, get a job, etc. Actually, in a healthy relationship, each couple works on him or her SELF FOR the other. Be healthy yourself. FOR the other. It makes for a happy relationship, it really really does. Maybe not with your current partner, but someday.
Knowing legalities never hurt.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 6, 2018 11:56:58 GMT -5
Why do we learn CPR if we might never need it? Wear a helmet or a seatbelt if we don't plan to crash? Maintain insurance policies?
Being prepared isn't a bad thing, and neither is being knowledgeable on a subject that's very material to your life.
Most of us can do these things without living in daily fear of the worst-case. Now, if you allow the fear / need for preparedness to overwhelm normal life, then yes there's an issue. And equally, many people might ignore the above and never regret it.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 6, 2018 13:56:13 GMT -5
My eldest daughter was just married. Her exit strategy was started by me just before her marriage. I put her premarital assets in a trust to keep them separate from marital assets. If she ever has to bail, she has something that is all hers to fall back on.
For those of us on the board, start forming your plan as soon as you realize you are not going to be able to fix this. If you still have hope in counseling or hormone therapy or a miracle, go for it and keep hoping, and my best luck to you. Maybe your situation is different enough that you will succeed.
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Post by jim44444 on Mar 6, 2018 16:02:09 GMT -5
I think the start of exit planning should be as @windsister and ironhamster highlighted, at the beginning of the relationship. We have no way to predict the future, we can only plan for scenarios. Our spouse could be dead tomorrow or we could come home to find a 'Dear John' letter on our pillow. The exit plan can include everything discussed except the divorce process. Include that when it is time to walk that path. Separate financial accounts are a must no matter how great our marriage is. A support network is advisable no matter how great our marriage is. Sorting our shit out is best no matter how great our marriage is. Keep going through the list and each item is good no matter how great our marriage is. The best time to develop an exit plan was yesterday, the next best time is now.
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Post by baza on Mar 6, 2018 19:26:58 GMT -5
For the moment, forget that you are in an ILIASM shithole. Instead, imagine yourself in a marriage "made in heaven".
Your "made in heaven" marriage IS going to end. Divorce or death will take care of that fact.
A prudent person recognises this fact, and as far as possible has some sort of fall back plan for when things go awry. Like - - in the event of you and your missus going down fatally in a plane stack, who you want to bring up your kids ? - in the event of your missus going under a bus how you are going to be a single parent ? - how are you going to financially survive ? You need to know this sort of shit.
I am in the relationship of my life with the delectable Ms enna. But I have a rudimentary plan as to what I would do if she suddenly was not here for some reason, how I would financially survive etc. And Ms enna also has such a fall back position. I most certainly do NOT feel in the least bit threatened by the knowledge that Ms enna has an exit strategy. Indeed I find it comforting to know that she does have one. I would imagine if I fatally come off my cruiser at some point, she might possibly be a bit upset by such an event, and having to figure out what she - as a single person - might do then is an aggravation she could probably do without at that time. Same would apply if Ms enna met the greatest stud in the country and elected to give me the heave-ho.
All marriages end, "made in heaven" deals and ILIASM shitholes alike...although ILIASM deals are at far greater risk of ending via divorce
I don't accept the premise advanced by Brother @shynjdude that the action of having an exit strategy is likely to jeopardise any work you might be doing to revive (or just prolong) your ILIASM shithole. I just cannot see the logic in that position. It's circular thinking... "I can't have a divorce contingency plan because having such a plan may cause a divorce...which I would need a plan for but which I can't have lest it precipitates a divorce that I have no contingency plan for"
It is akin to linking the fact that you have collision insurance on your car to somehow mean that you are now far more likely to have a collision. There's no such connection to be made. Having an exit strategy from an ILIASM shithole doesn't make it any more likely than it already is that you'll end up taking that route.
What it does, is to make you prepared for that potential outcome should the cards fall that way. It gives you an alternative - AND I venture to say, a position of confidence from which you can deal with your ILIASM situation in a far better frame of mind...and thus do a better job of it than you otherwise might.
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Post by Dan on Mar 6, 2018 23:06:16 GMT -5
The very act of working on an exit strategy negatively affects the marriage. I cannot see how it could be otherwise, because a successful marriage needs both parties to be "all in" and if you are checking out the alternatives, you aren't all in. I'm not sure I agree with this. First: it is a sore point because my wife has this "you gotta be all in" mantra, too... and I just find it lame. So it bugs me that you are saying it because SHE says it. Second: it seems to me there are plenty of real world activities where you can be "in" and "good" and "productive" even while you keep an eye to the exit. Say: working at your job. If you are 100% satisfied, no need to have a ready exit plan. But if job satisfaction varies day to day between 10% and 60%, I think you can "work on an exit plan" while still getting your work done. I experimented with tons of attempts to fix my marriage, attempts to distract from my marriage, and attempts to run away from my marriage. But the fact I was dabbling in the latter two doesn't mean I wasn't also attempting to find a fix. ------------------------------- There is a darker side to the "gotta be all in" view of things. I maintain the refused spouse is already likely to be someone of abnormally high responsibility and sense of "do what is right". After all, folks who ditched at the first sign of trouble were not the ones suffering for decades in an SM. The "gotta be all in" view is adding guilt to the already overly-conscientious. It may make someone feel "gosh, the SM -- which I don't like -- might be MY fault, because I'm not trying hard enough". Or something similarly convoluted. I don't think this is healthy. If the LACK of clear thinking about exit options keeps someone in this place of fear, THAT is a bad thing. Look: if someone decides to stay in an SM (or any difficult marriage), isn't it better for them to at least considered both sides (stay or exit) and make a best-choice based on facts rather than fear?
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 7, 2018 5:45:07 GMT -5
I had no exit plan. I'm in the best relationship I've ever been in now and we've been talking about having mutual exit strategies in place before we merge finances. I'm trying to get out of m y current marriage in a way that leaves me in a great position should my current relationship go tits up even though I really don't think it will. However, one or both of us will die (ok it's both of us).
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Post by shamwow on Mar 7, 2018 6:29:47 GMT -5
"The very act of working on an exit strategy negatively affects the marriage. I cannot see how it could be otherwise, because a successful marriage needs both parties to be "all in" and if you are checking out the alternatives, you aren't all in."
And yet you find yourself here.
In poker, when you are "all in" it means you've run out of chips and are shoving your dwindling remains into the pot to stay in for one last desperate hand.
If you lose that last hand you get up and walk away from the table. You don't take off your watch, your shirt, or shoes and toss them up to buy back in. If you do and keep going "all in", you will eventually have nothing to put on the table but your very soul and your life.
News flash: she is playing with a set of marked cards. She is cheating. The house always wins. Sure the house sometimes let's you win a hand or two to keep you at the table (reset time), but in the end they get everything if you keep going "all in". When is the last time she went "all on"?
So by all means, slide that last meager collection of chips into the pot. Perhaps you will be the lucky guy who beats the house. I hope you are!
Just be sure to walk away from the table before you are finally naked and your soul is crushed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 7:18:49 GMT -5
baza I am not talking about prudent financial and other plans, plans that both spouses would and should be working on in case of death. I never thought of those as "exit plans," they are contingency plans that are in the open and that both spouses agree with. Secretly seeing and paying for a divorce lawyer is a much different issue. And that is what I am saying will necessarily affect a marriage. Dan, once a marriage is in trouble and seems likely to be headed for a divorce, I agree, and I wrote that in the initial post. shamwow, the poker analogy is interesting but flawed. Because the house is never "all in" but in a good marriage both parties SHOULD be. If one party has already abdicated on that responsibility permanently or close enough to permanently, then it is indeed foolish to continue to go all in by yourself. I am talking about a scenario where the couple is truly still working on the issues in their marriage - in that case I think that furtive lawyer meetings cannot be helpful. And to restate my implied caveat in my initial post - if someone can indeed partition their lives where they can truly be trying 100% to fix the marriage while at the same time work on other stuff behind the spouse's back, then my conjecture doesn't apply. I just don't see how that is possible.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 7, 2018 7:20:04 GMT -5
“The very act of working on an exit strategy negatively affects the marriage. I cannot see how it could be otherwise, because a successful marriage needs both parties to be "all in" and if you are checking out the alternatives, you aren't all in."’
If you are unwillingly in a sm, your spouse isn’t all in.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 7, 2018 8:49:00 GMT -5
baza I am not talking about prudent financial and other plans, plans that both spouses would and should be working on in case of death. I never thought of those as "exit plans," they are contingency plans that are in the open and that both spouses agree with. Secretly seeing and paying for a divorce lawyer is a much different issue. And that is what I am saying will necessarily affect a marriage. Dan, once a marriage is in trouble and seems likely to be headed for a divorce, I agree, and I wrote that in the initial post. shamwow, the poker analogy is interesting but flawed. Because the house is never "all in" but in a good marriage both parties SHOULD be. If one party has already abdicated on that responsibility permanently or close enough to permanently, then it is indeed foolish to continue to go all in by yourself. I am talking about a scenario where the couple is truly still working on the issues in their marriage - in that case I think that furtive lawyer meetings cannot be helpful. And to restate my implied caveat in my initial post - if someone can indeed partition their lives where they can truly be trying 100% to fix the marriage while at the same time work on other stuff behind the spouse's back, then my conjecture doesn't apply. I just don't see how that is possible. I know I will regret opening this can of worms (why chasing) but what are the primary reasons your wife gives for lack of intimacy? Is there a compelling and untreatable illness? Is she paralyzed? Is there mental illness (i.e. Psychosis or bipolar) that precludes intimacy? If these are factors then how does she feel about an open marriage? Seeing the one you love is in pain and making THAT sacrifice is truly "all in" on her part. Perhaps you can give examples of what she HAS done to demonstrate she is "all in" rather than "all there".
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