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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Feb 10, 2018 6:16:47 GMT -5
When I first came on to these boards last summer sometime, I was of the opinion that outsourcing was an answer. I can relate to many of the things Dan has said. In my case, I believed that I could be the recipient of the numerous benefits of outsourcing. By my definition, outsourcing in the sense of an actual physical encounter involving more than just kissing and heavy manual stimulation.
Since that time, my thinking has evolved somewhat having been influenced by other members' experiences. I am now not so certain that having an AP can "fill the gap" so to speak if that is in fact the question. That is, the affair lets you enjoy, a la carte, the pleasures you dont find in marriage while continuing to benefit from all the other things a marriage might bring. In my case, an affair would be a very nice distraction certainly. But at the end of the day, I would still need to "come home" to face the realities of my marriage and its complexities that go far beyond the sexlessness.
In short, I suppose that yes it can be a solution of sorts in the case where other parts of the marriage function well and you are looking to supplement, like you would with a vitamin. But if the marriage illness is a little more severe, then we all understand that you can take some vitamins, but it aint going to help you heal. I tend to fall into the latter category. It really depends on the unique circumstances that one finds themselves in.
That said, I would still likely outsource with the right partner if the opportunity presented itself. I guess Id try to be practical and realistic about what the outsourcing is and what it isnt.
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Post by baza on Feb 10, 2018 6:57:04 GMT -5
There is another angle in all this "cheating can be good for you" position. That being, that there's more than "you" involved. There is your accomplice in this adventure. A real live person with their own life and their own aspirations. A person who is entitled to the same level of respect as you. A person who could end up collateral damage should the deal go pearshaped (and to be fair who would be enjoying the good bits too) Now this accomplice would be making their own choice about whether they got involved or not (same choice as you have) and they would wear the consequences of this choice (just like you will)
But I think that you probably need to ask yourself some pretty hard questions about how the ripple effects from this adventure could spread out for you, for them, and for others whose life might be impacted. Could you - for example - wipe them like a dirty arse if need be ? I am thinking here of you being discovered and your spouse giving you the ultimatum "drop your cheating accomplice or we are divorcing" and circumstance being that you weren't up for divorce and had to unceremoniously dump her. Would you be ok with that ?
This accomplice is a real person. That ought not be overlooked.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 10, 2018 7:48:20 GMT -5
This accomplice is a real person. That ought not be overlooked. ...which is why communication between you and your AP is extremely important to ensure you are on the same page. If either of you find yourselves shifting positions in any way then you talk about it. It can work and in my experience it HAS worked. It doesn't mean no one will get hurt in the end but both partners know that going into it and are willing to take that risk.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 10, 2018 8:43:41 GMT -5
This accomplice is a real person. That ought not be overlooked. ...which is why communication between you and your AP is extremely important to ensure you are on the same page. If either of you find yourselves shifting positions in any way then you talk about it. It can work and in my experience it HAS worked. It doesn't mean no one will get hurt in the end but both partners know that going into it and are willing to take that risk. I agree. From day one my AP and I set the rules and we follow them. My situation is unique too because his wife knows about me, they have sex but not as much as he wants. It's in my nature to follow rules, I'm a teacher. The only thing that changes is the sexual position we are in. For whatever reason I'm able to keep my emotions in check. We are not in love with each other but we enjoy each other sexually. I don't think of him as an AP to me he's a friend.
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Post by obobfla on Feb 10, 2018 10:11:05 GMT -5
My wife’s refusing came from her mental illness. Still, an awful thought creeped into my head - I must not be very good in bed. Maybe I once was, but not anymore. Is there a problem with me?
Then I had my affair. No, there is nothing wrong with my sex skills. According to my AP, I was pretty damn good! I was a man again.
But there was a lot more than sex. I totally believe we were in love. When we saw each other on video chats, both of our faces would light up. We were friends. I helped her into recovery. We both had autistic kids, so we shared our experiences there.
Although we lived 1,200 miles apart, we chatted almost every night. The distance and our family obligations broke us up. Of course, the distance may have kept the affair going longer than it should have. I’m really not sure.
Whatever it was, the affair was simply magic. I saw where my AP got engaged. I wrote to her, congratulating her and giving her an update of where my son and I are. I thanked her for the time she gave me and said I didn’t regret any of it, including its ending. We came into each other’s lives at a difficult time and carried each other over to better days.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 10, 2018 10:13:58 GMT -5
But I already know I want the whole enchilada. I want love and sex and intimacy and desire AND fun, family and security as well, without having to hide or lie. Ah, the enchilada... how to have only "part"? I don't want just the crispy, cheesy part on the top. Sex, intimacy, love... if I was a consultant, I'd be drawing a 3-legged stool right now, to illustrate how you can't leave out one leg. But that's me, and probably why I'd be a bad candidate for a "proper" affair. But there seem to be plenty of folks who are OK with compartmentalizing, and sourcing each of those things from different people. For them, the concept of "multi-sourcing" might work, at least for a while. (Subject to baza 's excellent caveats and pitfalls.) I do think compartmentalizing has a lot to do with it and not everyone is capable of that or wants to do that. But as for me, when I am starving and can't have the whole enchilada, getting a piece (heh) is preferable to having none at all. One of the ways I am working towards making a change is by working on myself. Trying to listen more to my own needs and desires and living my own truth for myself instead of others (like my H or family). That ongoing journey has led me to having an AP and I am thankful for that. If we all need 3 legs to hold up our stools I am grateful to now have the legs I so desperately need and have been missing for years even if those legs are being created with/provided by someone else. My H is incapable of providing the legs I need for balance and support.
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Post by elkclan2 on Feb 10, 2018 15:31:41 GMT -5
I had a long term affair with a man I greatly liked during my SM. I had some false starts along the way as well. For me, it was an important part of reconnecting to my sexual self and understanding that in terms of desirability it wasn't MY fault. It's entirely possible that my husband simply didn't desire me, but I also believe that he was sexually dysfunctional, although I think, especially toward the end, he really didn't desire me as well. It helped me tremendously and no regrets. Did it help my marriage? At first yes, but later no - because I started to realise how dysfunctional my deal was and that even someone who didn't love me (well, not like that anyway, I definitely love my old AP, but as a friend) could treat me with basic decency, which my husband could not. It offered at first an ego boost and outlet and then a stark contrast. My affair continued after my husband and I separated and I started dating other men on the condition that I would tell him if I had sex with someone else. As it happens I didn't have sex with anyone else until my current partner, though I probably could have.
However, my affair ended when I started dating the man I'm currently with. My AP ditched me. He was also in a polyamorous relationship with a woman who was married (not an 'affair', he even met her husband) and she ditched him. In retrospect we think our partners realised that what he and I had was serious before we did and they backed away, which is pretty darn cool.
Now that Im in the real deal though, there's no comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:29:21 GMT -5
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 10, 2018 20:43:26 GMT -5
@shynjdude No, I did not get intimacy. But that's exactly what I'm looking for in an AP and why I'm still hunting. Thanks to baza and this forum, I realize I have three choices. I've decided (A) STAY is not one of my options anymore. This whole thing is like taking a test, and I've been able to narrow it down to the final two. Now, I just have to tap, tap, tap my eraser on the desk and choose between B and C.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:47:00 GMT -5
surfergirlYou were the reason I said "most of you" and not "all of you," but it seemed presumptuous to make that assumption. Good luck finding the intimacy you need.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 23:20:59 GMT -5
Am I reading this right in that the people who have had affairs that they consider positive all received intimacy as well as sex? It sounds like it for most of you. And since DryCreek brought it up...was there a component of love there as well? I also count myself among those with an AP/EAP, although there was no sex involved in mine; it was emotional. We had intimacy and a deep love and respect for one another. It was an amazing thing and restored my confidence in myself and in men. I dialed the relationship way back because I need to get out of my deal, and having an AP can have the paradoxical effect of keeping you stuck. I felt I needed to feel the pain of my marriage without the life vest of an AP. I need to nearly drown to muster the courage to get out. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's not about the sex. It's all about the intimacy and friendship. I truly believe that where there is intimacy in a marriage, the sex will follow as an afterthought. I've never had emotional intimacy with my H. There was a time when we had sex. But without the intimacy, I think we were programmed to fail. Wish I had known that when I married in my 20s.
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Post by ironhamster on Feb 11, 2018 0:32:14 GMT -5
Am I reading this right in that the people who have had affairs that they consider positive all received intimacy as well as sex? It sounds like it for most of you. And since DryCreek brought it up...was there a component of love there as well? In my case, yes. It was quite unexpected.
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Post by baza on Feb 11, 2018 0:41:45 GMT -5
I reckon that's the thing. If you embark on this course, it tends to be a big game changer one way or another. You might start off with a "this is just a rooting deal" agenda and find suddenly it's become something else.
Under one model it helps you tolerate and thus prolong your ILIASM shithole. (Good thing - or bad thing ? Your choice) Under another model it helps you accelerate the end of your LIASM shithole. (Good thing - or bad thing ? Your choice)
What you don't know - and can not know - prior to the event, is which tangent things might spin off to. There are just so many variables in the cheating scenario, and you cannot possibly control most of them.
Hence my usual (and mostly ignored) suggestion that if you are considering the cheating option, treat it as if you were divorcing as far as your preparation goes, as it is quite likely that that is where your trajectory is likely to be taking you.
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Post by elkclan2 on Feb 11, 2018 3:45:14 GMT -5
Yes, definitely a degree of intimacy. Not 'true love' intimacy, not like I have with my current partner. But you can't have sex with someone anywhere from 1 to 4 times a month over a 5 year period and not develop a degree of care and companionship. And, of course, we chatted via text almost every single day.
ETA
As @elle points out, I think my affair also helped keep me stuck in the marriage and there were times when I worried that it was keeping me from developing a new relationship after my separation. In hindsight though it definitely didn't and helped me to keep perspective with every date. When the right one came along there was no issue in ending my affair and it happened without much sadness.
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 11, 2018 7:11:26 GMT -5
I have had an AP for about 5 years. I like her a lot, but love is not involved. We both know it could end at any time for any number of reasons. That being said, the adventure of it and the risk involved add to the "thrill" of the act and is probably the biggest factor of why it has worked for the last 5 years. It did not start as a long term thing, but I sure have enjoyed the ride, so to speak. My AP leads a much different lifestyle than me and I know I am not her only sexual partner. So what? There is no trying to control each other - just scheduling time together. When it started, it was like coming up for air when your lungs are about to burst. Now, it is a battery recharge that allows me some greater freedom and energy to face my life as it is - not as I would like it to be. I am happier in my marriage because I am much less likely to agree to some deal just because I am afraid that disagreeing will cause sex to be withheld. It simply does not matter any more.
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