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Post by northstarmom on Nov 13, 2017 13:57:42 GMT -5
shamwow’s words are worth a repeat:
“And none of us really want to divorce our spouses. We signed up till death do we part and most of us truly meant that. But marriage vows are not the same as a suicide pact.”
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 13, 2017 16:27:40 GMT -5
Keep in mind that she has been with him 10 years, hasn’t had sex with him in 3 years, had very little sex with him before that, her husband only told her last year about being sexually abused as a child, says sex never crosses his mind, says he can’t stand any touch. Ahh, not true! We had one very unsatisfying instance of reset sex a little over 4 months ago, LOL! Seriously though, I think one of the major differences that I can cull from reading so many stories here vs. how I feel about my own marriage is that I genuinely still love my H. Maybe I should have more anger towards him for the pain this SM is causing me but it's hard for me to blame him when I feel so much compassion for his situation. I'm obviously not happy that in some ways I am currently paying the price for another person's sins but I don't blame my H for that. At the moment I feel he is doing what he can to see what he may be capable of within our marriage. To use baza 's words: We will never enjoy a "robust sex life". I am coming to terms with that and will need to mourn that fact. But maybe he WILL be able to be okay with touch and intimacy with some additional work and therapy. I am under no pretense that he will ever want to fuck me with reckless abandon. But maybe we will come to a place where he is okay with me getting that need fulfilled by someone else. I'm not sure what will be possible for him. But right NOW, I'm willing to give it some time to see if we can find out what he might be capable of and then see if that can be enough for me. As was said in some other threads recently, if he was a horrible person this would be a lot easier. But he's not. He's a wonderful person: he's kind and caring and generous and smart; a wonderful father and provider. And a divorce would not only effect me. It would greatly effect our preschool aged son who has special needs. It would effect our families. I'm not going to rush headlong into divorcing him until I'm sure that my future and my son's future would be better and not worse with a divorce. Sex is important. Intimacy is important. But it's not everything. It's not the only consideration. Sometimes this forum makes me tired of feeling like I have to defend my reasons for staying.
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Post by hopingforachange on Nov 13, 2017 16:59:52 GMT -5
Keep in mind that she has been with him 10 years, hasn’t had sex with him in 3 years, had very little sex with him before that, her husband only told her last year about being sexually abused as a child, says sex never crosses his mind, says he can’t stand any touch. Ahh, not true! We had one very unsatisfying instance of reset sex a little over 4 months ago, LOL! Seriously though, I think one of the major differences that I can cull from reading so many stories here vs. how I feel about my own marriage is that I genuinely still love my H. Maybe I should have more anger towards him for the pain this SM is causing me but it's hard for me to blame him when I feel so much compassion for his situation. I'm obviously not happy that in some ways I am currently paying the price for another person's sins but I don't blame my H for that. At the moment I feel he is doing what he can to see what he may be capable of within our marriage. To use baza 's words: We will never enjoy a "robust sex life". I am coming to terms with that and will need to mourn that fact. But maybe he WILL be able to be okay with touch and intimacy with some additional work and therapy. I am under no pretense that he will ever want to fuck me with reckless abandon. But maybe we will come to a place where he is okay with me getting that need fulfilled by someone else. I'm not sure what will be possible for him. But right NOW, I'm willing to give it some time to see if we can find out what he might be capable of and then see if that can be enough for me. As was said in some other threads recently, if he was a horrible person this would be a lot easier. But he's not. He's a wonderful person: he's kind and caring and generous and smart; a wonderful father and provider. And a divorce would not only effect me. It would greatly effect our preschool aged son who has special needs. It would effect our families. I'm not going to rush headlong into divorcing him until I'm sure that my future and my son's future would be better and not worse with a divorce. Sex is important. Intimacy is important. But it's not everything. It's not the only consideration. Sometimes this forum makes me tired of feeling like I have to defend my reasons for staying. I don't see the forum as making up defend or reasons but challenging is to make sure they are the real reasons and not the lies we are telling ourselves.
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Post by h on Nov 13, 2017 17:00:43 GMT -5
Keep in mind that she has been with him 10 years, hasn’t had sex with him in 3 years, had very little sex with him before that, her husband only told her last year about being sexually abused as a child, says sex never crosses his mind, says he can’t stand any touch. Ahh, not true! We had one very unsatisfying instance of reset sex a little over 4 months ago, LOL! Seriously though, I think one of the major differences that I can cull from reading so many stories here vs. how I feel about my own marriage is that I genuinely still love my H. Maybe I should have more anger towards him for the pain this SM is causing me but it's hard for me to blame him when I feel so much compassion for his situation. I'm obviously not happy that in some ways I am currently paying the price for another person's sins but I don't blame my H for that. At the moment I feel he is doing what he can to see what he may be capable of within our marriage. To use baza 's words: We will never enjoy a "robust sex life". I am coming to terms with that and will need to mourn that fact. But maybe he WILL be able to be okay with touch and intimacy with some additional work and therapy. I am under no pretense that he will ever want to fuck me with reckless abandon. But maybe we will come to a place where he is okay with me getting that need fulfilled by someone else. I'm not sure what will be possible for him. But right NOW, I'm willing to give it some time to see if we can find out what he might be capable of and then see if that can be enough for me. As was said in some other threads recently, if he was a horrible person this would be a lot easier. But he's not. He's a wonderful person: he's kind and caring and generous and smart; a wonderful father and provider. And a divorce would not only effect me. It would greatly effect our preschool aged son who has special needs. It would effect our families. I'm not going to rush headlong into divorcing him until I'm sure that my future and my son's future would be better and not worse with a divorce. Sex is important. Intimacy is important. But it's not everything. It's not the only consideration. Sometimes this forum makes me tired of feeling like I have to defend my reasons for staying. You don't have to defend your decision to anyone! It's your life and you know your situation better than anyone else here. It's a sad day when a good person comes looking for help and is argued with to the point that they feel more rejected than they do at home with the SM. Don't let anyone bully you into a decision that isn't right for YOU.
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Post by baza on Nov 13, 2017 17:14:23 GMT -5
The potential issue here Sister choosinghappy , is that *today* you still love him and there may still be some residual goodwill left in the marriage. I would speculate that this level of love / residual goodwill *today* is at a lower level than it was say in 2012 (5 years ago). I would further speculate that in another 5 years (2022) the residual goodwill will have tanked further. The issue is whether you - (a) - let the residual goodwill tank until there's none left (b) - negotiate an orderly end to the situation based on whatever level of goodwill that remains *today*. In other words, do you run the deal into the ground until there's nothing left, or call a halt to it whilst there is still some level of goodwill in place ? Hard choices.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 13, 2017 17:30:51 GMT -5
“Seriously though, I think one of the major differences that I can cull from reading so many stories here vs. how I feel about my own marriage is that I genuinely still love my H. Maybe I should have more anger towards him for the pain this SM is causing me but it's hard for me to blame him when I feel so much compassion for his situation. “
There are different forms of love. There is romantic live which includes sexual feelings. There is platonic love that doesn’t include sexual feelings. That’s the type of love we feel for family members and close friends. Even when I divorced my refuser (who even thought he had fathered a child abroad during our eight straight years of celibacy the last years of our 36-year relationship), I still cared for him. I did not however want to stay married to him or to have sex with him. Even 2 years after our divorce when he got cancer, I wanted him to have good health and not suffer. All kinds of love can and probably do include compassion except for narcissistic love of caring for a person because of what they can do for you.
To romantically love someone incapable of having sex with you or even tolerating touching you seems more like a fantasy than like reality. It also when it comes to feeling that way ay about your husband seems to lack compassion. You are asking your husband to undertake years of emotionally painful therapy to achieve something that not only is he unlikely to achieve but also it’s something that he is striving for only to keep you as his wife. He has said he doesn’t even think of sex.
Have you asked yourself why you cling so tightly to a man who seems so steadfastly unable to provide you the kind of love you say you want?
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Post by ballofconfusion on Nov 13, 2017 18:26:59 GMT -5
Lonelywifey, I believe everyone here would understand a choice to reflect on such a monumental decision and would also support you should you decide that staying is the best option for you and your family.
There is pain involved in both of these choices and there is no simple path. The only path that matters is the one that you can live with (and the choice can be changed at any time too). You have the opportunity here to (as Mark Manson would say) choose your suffering. Take your time. Avoid defending your choices to anyone other than yourself. However, do a thorough evaluation and truly reflect on what you can do and still be healthy.
The answer may change over time. That is perfectly acceptable. This is your journey. Live it well. Live it unapologetically. We are here for you.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 13, 2017 19:18:31 GMT -5
Keep in mind that she has been with him 10 years, hasn’t had sex with him in 3 years, had very little sex with him before that, her husband only told her last year about being sexually abused as a child, says sex never crosses his mind, says he can’t stand any touch. Ahh, not true! We had one very unsatisfying instance of reset sex a little over 4 months ago, LOL! Seriously though, I think one of the major differences that I can cull from reading so many stories here vs. how I feel about my own marriage is that I genuinely still love my H. Maybe I should have more anger towards him for the pain this SM is causing me but it's hard for me to blame him when I feel so much compassion for his situation. I'm obviously not happy that in some ways I am currently paying the price for another person's sins but I don't blame my H for that. At the moment I feel he is doing what he can to see what he may be capable of within our marriage. To use baza 's words: We will never enjoy a "robust sex life". I am coming to terms with that and will need to mourn that fact. But maybe he WILL be able to be okay with touch and intimacy with some additional work and therapy. I am under no pretense that he will ever want to fuck me with reckless abandon. But maybe we will come to a place where he is okay with me getting that need fulfilled by someone else. I'm not sure what will be possible for him. But right NOW, I'm willing to give it some time to see if we can find out what he might be capable of and then see if that can be enough for me. As was said in some other threads recently, if he was a horrible person this would be a lot easier. But he's not. He's a wonderful person: he's kind and caring and generous and smart; a wonderful father and provider. And a divorce would not only effect me. It would greatly effect our preschool aged son who has special needs. It would effect our families. I'm not going to rush headlong into divorcing him until I'm sure that my future and my son's future would be better and not worse with a divorce. Sex is important. Intimacy is important. But it's not everything. It's not the only consideration. Sometimes this forum makes me tired of feeling like I have to defend my reasons for staying. Under your circumstances where divorce is not an option or a want because there is clearly love in your relationship, outsourcing is worth a try when and if you are ready for it. Please know that this group always has good intent, support, and we understand despite the fact that even though are stories have similarities, they are all in fact different because we and all of the refusers are all different people. For some a divorce is clear cut but for others not so much. There is no cookie cutter solution.
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Post by allworkandnoplay on Nov 13, 2017 22:24:15 GMT -5
I just want to send positive thoughts your way. I wish I could think of the right words, but they escape me. I can't imagine the mental/emotional tug-of-war you are going through. Just know that all of us here are with you in spirit.
All my best.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 14, 2017 9:34:35 GMT -5
northstarmom I disagree with your supposition that there is no value in choosinghappy 's h doing the work he is doing now if they don't end up together. We humans are adept at avoiding shit we don't want to see about ourselves. His wilingness to do real work is for his ultimate benefit as he will gain a greater self awareness if nothing else. Just that alone will make him a better father, which he will be for this little persons whole life, and a better person. Perhaps her love for him and his for her will only give them this amazing growth opportunity. Who knows? Either way who in the world is all knowing enough to say it is not worth the effort?! choosinghappy it is hard to love someone who has really intense brokeness. That does not mean it is not worth the effort. You are growing and working too- figuring out what you need and empowering yourself to make hard choices. IMO the wrong advice is always the one that tells you not to listen to your instincts. Our work as the refused, IMO, is to empower our inner voices that have been diminished by our SM. This is a process! Stick with it!
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 14, 2017 10:02:43 GMT -5
If her husband wants to do that difficult inner work for himself that does not seem problematic to me. If he is, however, fine with being asexual and only is embarking on excruciating inner work for his wife, that is what I view as problematic. Such work can take years, even decades. He may never develop the level of comfort with touch — even nonsexual touch — that most people have. If it ends up that it would take years of therapy for him to be comfortable holding her hand, what’s the point.
As for the love they have for each other, they may love each other deeply as friends, but it doesn’t seem sexual. He is not capable of sexual love. She seems to be in love sexually with the person whom she hopes he will become, not with the person who he is now. They may have compassion and trust for each other, but those feelings don’t mean they are a romantic match or ever will be.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 14, 2017 10:34:35 GMT -5
...As for the love they have for each other, they may love each other deeply as friends, but it doesn’t seem sexual. He is not capable of sexual love. She seems to be in love sexually with the person whom she hopes he will become, not with the person who he is now. They may have compassion and trust for each other, but those feelings don’t mean they are a romantic match or ever will be. I think in many of our cases, we need to take a careful look at how we feel about our spouses and how they care about us. There is a lot of wisdom, there. Accepting that my wife was never going to be able to be the partner I needed has been an important part of the healing process. There is going to be a lot more trauma and healing coming soon. Beyond the kids, the biggest complication in this is that we do love each other. We just cannot be the person the other needs us to be.
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Post by M2G on Nov 14, 2017 23:51:43 GMT -5
Totally baffling to me as a male, how so many intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate and caring woman can be saddled with refusers. World's gone fucking mad.
Anyway, as far as lists here's mine: A partner who enjoys sex as much as I do, with about the same frequency, and no problems doing things for each other that both partners are comfortable with.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 15, 2017 0:22:09 GMT -5
Totally baffling to me as a male, how so many intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate and caring woman can be saddled with refusers. World's gone fucking mad. You left out ‘sexy’. 😉 LOL!
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Post by M2G on Nov 15, 2017 5:17:42 GMT -5
Totally baffling to me as a male, how so many intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate and caring woman can be saddled with refusers. World's gone fucking mad. You left out ‘sexy’. 😉 LOL! Sorry - thought that was a given
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