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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:39:15 GMT -5
My Daughter drew this on my office whiteboard probably 8 years ago -- 2nd grade. The recent bballgirl thread reminiscing her intact family impacted me terribly. Got me VERY nostalgic. Rocked my world a little. Correction: Kept me up last night. Great job bballgirl . Someone has to do it. This should NOT be easy, and should only be undertaken with a HIGH degree of sobriety and reflection.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:40:24 GMT -5
This was left on my board for years until a cleaning person cleaned off all the white boards.
I feel like I'm erasing the family.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 18:35:34 GMT -5
I understand the feeling, but remember that your wife destroyed the marriage, and that is the foundation of the family
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2017 19:02:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry I stirred up so many emotions. It's tough I know. However eventually kids do grow up and move out. You really did your best to keep it together for so long, your wife can own the consequences of your lack of marriage. Hugs
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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2017 19:05:35 GMT -5
The drawing may well have been an accurate depiction of the unit as it stood 8 years ago Brother @creelunion .
And nothing stays static. The passage of time alters things and people and environments That 2009 picture has changed as by 2017 It will have altered and changed further by 2025 Further still after adding on another 8 year block to take you out to 2033
I don't think you can ever "erase" your family though, even if you wanted to. Those relationships endure, subtlely changing all the time, usually for the better, but not without pain.
Feeling for you at this time Brother.
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Post by becca on Aug 20, 2017 19:21:46 GMT -5
I love the "do not erase". Between your post, @creelunion, and bballgirl's post I can tell it is going to be a restless night. Too many emotions! Your family is tougher than dry erase marker, creel. Whatever happens between you and their mother, you will always be family. And it is obvious there is a lot of love between you and your children. That won't change. And I believe you are right. It shouldn't be easy. For whatever reason, your post made me recall a moment from the past. My youngest was a big Lilo and Stitch fan. She loved the quote, "Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind". She wrote it on her daddy's big whiteboard once. Sure wish I had taken a picture. It became her go to phrase and she pulled that damn "ohana" card more than once. I have two rescue mutts to prove it. Okay, I am going to step away from the nostalgia train for the night and go listen to some heavy metal or something.
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Post by unmatched on Aug 20, 2017 19:28:15 GMT -5
I read something recently that really touched me. Marriages are not 'things' that can be won or lost or owned or protected. They are relationships. And a relationship is simply the space between two people and how they are interacting together. And I think the same goes for families. If the superficial appearance of your family is no longer 'perfect', but the underlying connections and relationships between the family members have more depth and authenticity, I don't think that is any kind of loss. In fact it is the opposite.
And knowing how you feel about your kids, I know you are going to do whatever it takes to make sure that is what happens.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:40:29 GMT -5
I read something recently that really touched me. Marriages are not 'things' that can be won or lost or owned or protected. They are relationships. And a relationship is simply the space between two people and how they are interacting together. And I think the same goes for families. If the superficial appearance of your family is no longer 'perfect', but the underlying connections and relationships between the family members have more depth and authenticity, I don't think that is any kind of loss. In fact it is the opposite. And knowing how you feel about your kids, I know you are going to do whatever it takes to make sure that is what happens. About a year ago, at the beginning of the intense search for resolution, my wife mused to me that I would have been a better father if we had divorced 7 years ago when I first contacted the attorney and started the plan. She gave a bunch of examples. Now, to be sure, her objective was to inflict pain and punishment -- there may have been little or no truth to any of it -- but it has given me some hope that I can now be a better father without the stress of contending with her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:47:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry I stirred up so many emotions. It's tough I know. However eventually kids do grow up and move out. You really did your best to keep it together for so long, your wife can own the consequences of your lack of marriage. Hugs Yes, you really stirred the pot. And I'm sure with more than just me. But, this stuff is rolling all over my mind at a million miles per hour. And with my kids as well. Someone mentioned Christmas ornaments to me. There's a heartbreaker. The kids even asked about that when wife and I were explaining it to them. Then they asked again the next day. Where will Daddy go for Christmas? Birthdays? I just told them I hoped mom would see clear to letting me visit on those days. I thought that would be better than the "Two Holidays" deal. Mom's not sure yet.
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Post by unmatched on Aug 20, 2017 20:06:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry I stirred up so many emotions. It's tough I know. However eventually kids do grow up and move out. You really did your best to keep it together for so long, your wife can own the consequences of your lack of marriage. Hugs Yes, you really stirred the pot. And I'm sure with more than just me. But, this stuff is rolling all over my mind at a million miles per hour. And with my kids as well. Someone mentioned Christmas ornaments to me. There's a heartbreaker. The kids even asked about that when wife and I were explaining it to them. Then they asked again the next day. Where will Daddy go for Christmas? Birthdays? I just told them I hoped mom would see clear to letting me visit on those days. I thought that would be better than the "Two Holidays" deal. Mom's not sure yet. Is it really her choice to make?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 20:17:07 GMT -5
Yes, you really stirred the pot. And I'm sure with more than just me. But, this stuff is rolling all over my mind at a million miles per hour. And with my kids as well. Someone mentioned Christmas ornaments to me. There's a heartbreaker. The kids even asked about that when wife and I were explaining it to them. Then they asked again the next day. Where will Daddy go for Christmas? Birthdays? I just told them I hoped mom would see clear to letting me visit on those days. I thought that would be better than the "Two Holidays" deal. Mom's not sure yet. Is it really her choice to make? Absolutely. If I'm going to her place on the holidays and eat, etc. at her house. Now, I can also force two 16 year olds to come to my place and have a second holiday, but that's tortured and ... I don't want to subject them to that. Everything will be better if Mom and I can just get along. I'm hoping we will.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2017 20:23:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry I stirred up so many emotions. It's tough I know. However eventually kids do grow up and move out. You really did your best to keep it together for so long, your wife can own the consequences of your lack of marriage. Hugs Yes, you really stirred the pot. And I'm sure with more than just me. But, this stuff is rolling all over my mind at a million miles per hour. And with my kids as well. Someone mentioned Christmas ornaments to me. There's a heartbreaker. The kids even asked about that when wife and I were explaining it to them. Then they asked again the next day. Where will Daddy go for Christmas? Birthdays? I just told them I hoped mom would see clear to letting me visit on those days. I thought that would be better than the "Two Holidays" deal. Mom's not sure yet. In my divorce I get Thanksgiving odd years and Christmas even years. Last year Christmas we did together, he came to my house with the kids from morning until night, we even got a picture of the 4 of us in front of the tree. Thanksgiving is separate not together. Last year I went out of town and visited with my parents. This year I have the kids so they are coming with me to my parents. Some holidays I don't see my kids, some I do. The first year of divorce my ex didn't tell me Happy Mothers Day - this past year he took me out to lunch with the kids. Over time things change and we just have to accept a new reality and enjoy whatever time we do have with our kids.
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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2017 20:30:49 GMT -5
This following post is a sidebar to Brother @creelunion 's main thrust.
I left in Oct 2009 so Xmas 2009 was a bit early to be trying to extend the olive branch to my ex missus and kids. However, every subsequent Xmas, I have invited them to Xmas at wherever Ms enna and I have been celebrating the event. That's 7 xmases. All such invitations were declined or side stepped up to 2015. My ex missus was likely never going to accept my invitation, and the kids probably felt their loyalties to her took priority. All of which I completely understand. My ex missus passed on in 2015. In 2015 both my kids came up here for xmas. In 2016 one of them did. They both tend to come up here 3 or 4 times a year nowadays. And I go down to visit them about 6 or 7 times a year.
Now I had best make a disclaimer here - that being that I hate Xmas and all the bullshit elements that go with it. So if we invite someone and they can't come or don't want to come, I couldn't give a shit. My idea of Xmas is "the fewer the better" as far as invitees are concerned. "None" would be my preferred option ! (I ought add that Ms enna's attitude is the exact opposite !!)
Anyway, I think getting on the front foot with these things is a pretty good idea. Don't wait for them to invite you. Get in first and invite them. Take a pro-active position is my suggestion. Now they are almost certain to reject the invitation, but it sends a very clear message - - that you are getting on with your life, and that they are welcome to remain part of it - that you respect them enough to leave their choice(s) up to them and you won't get pissy with them if they choose not to attend
Again, the above is a sidebar - I've no wish to hi-jack the thread.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2017 20:47:07 GMT -5
It's true what baza said Be proactive Call her a few weeks prior and say "do you want to spend Christmas all together?" Or whatever the holiday is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 20:57:22 GMT -5
It's true what baza said Be proactive Call her a few weeks prior and say "do you want to spend Christmas all together?" Or whatever the holiday is. Awe bballgirl, I hear you. I've stopped taking things for granted. I'm learning to communicate better. With the kids and my wife. I'm getting better at some of these things. I was musing with a friend how a fairly simple self inventory exposed so many flaws and deficiencies in my personal and emotional repertoire. Gaps in every dimension of personal maturity and development. Gaps EVERYWHERE. I have a lot of work, but the journey should be interesting. And I'm motivated to learn and improve. At least I started late. Some never start.
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