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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 22:11:46 GMT -5
Creel, good to hear from you again. It's been a while. I hope your kids handle this well. It must be very tough on them to see their parents separate. But you and wife are doing that gently in front of them so that is good. Good luck with your upcoming divorce. We'll, it started out gentle. And I'm trying. Maybe my wife is just more practical than I am. She assured me that we couldn't stay civil for long. And we're at each other's throats now. My son texted me at work today asking when I'd be home. He had questions. So I came straight home. He asked why mom and I didn't just do a timeout. Or a separation before just going for divorce. It was a good question. But one I really don't have a good answer to. I told him I need mom to take responsibility and demonstrate accountability. And that wouldn't happen if I'm just living in a tenement or a friend's basement. (Truth is, she'd probably love that as long as I stopped by and cut the grass and fixed stuff.) He rocked my world. And my daughter is having meltdowns. Apparently, she was crying violently for a half hour this afternoon. What am I doing? Why couldn't I just stick to the plan? My hopes of mutually agreeable solutions and family harmony through this divorce is just stupid. This is violent and there's no other way to consider it. If someone here has done this with teenagers, I'd love to hear done counsel. Seeing and talking about the fear my little girl is facing has me feeling like a monster. Seriously. petrushka, you asked about guilt and shame? This is shame.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 14, 2017 22:50:33 GMT -5
Friend. This is not shame and guilt. This is real life. And as difficult as it is, one needs to be present in what is happening and plow through with what must be done. Im really sorry that your daughter is having a rough go. I really am. Two anecdotes that might provide some perspective if nothing. I had a friend whose parents divorced once her and her sibling were out of the house. She was pissed. She told me she felt her childhood was a sham. That her parents denied themselves a lifetime of happiness for their sake. Her mom was not altogether well in the head and she wished her father would have reacted to that instead of living like nobody noticed anything. The second is that when I was younger my father told me that to be happy in life, one had to be brave. At the time I had no clue why the fuck my father would say such a heavy thing to a kid. As I became an adult, Ive learned many times over what he was trying to say. Im sorry I do not have better words for you to consume and ponder. But if anything please know that these words are genuine and that they come from a place of concern from another human being that has been touched by the rawness of your words and the experience you are living through. Im sending strength and positivity your way so that you can be steadfast as you make your way through a treacherous part of the journey. Keep the faith. Creel, good to hear from you again. It's been a while. I hope your kids handle this well. It must be very tough on them to see their parents separate. But you and wife are doing that gently in front of them so that is good. Good luck with your upcoming divorce. We'll, it started out gentle. And I'm trying. Maybe my wife is just more practical than I am. She assured me that we couldn't stay civil for long. And we're at each other's throats now. My son texted me at work today asking when I'd be home. He had questions. So I came straight home. He asked why mom and I didn't just do a timeout. Or a separation before just going for divorce. It was a good question. But one I really don't have a good answer to. I told him I need mom to take responsibility and demonstrate accountability. And that wouldn't happen if I'm just living in a tenement or a friend's basement. (Truth is, she'd probably love that as long as I stopped by and cut the grass and fixed stuff.) He rocked my world. And my daughter is having meltdowns. Apparently, she was crying violently for a half hour this afternoon. What am I doing? Why couldn't I just stick to the plan? My hopes of mutually agreeable solutions and family harmony through this divorce is just stupid. This is violent and there's no other way to consider it. If someone here has done this with teenagers, I'd love to hear done counsel. Seeing and talking about the fear my little girl is facing has me feeling like a monster. Seriously. petrushka, you asked about guilt and shame? This is shame.
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Post by TMD on Aug 14, 2017 22:58:44 GMT -5
I am proud of you for coming to a decision that is very difficult. Please drop the, "shame," from your dialogue. You have nothing to be ashamed of. You did everything possible to try and make the marriage work. As as we all know, a marriage works only when BOTH partners are vested in it. ((ETA: isn't this what your wife has done? Shamed you into complicity? This is her tactic, not yours. Again, please don't embrace it.)) Doesn't sound like your wife ever was vested. And it sounds like she must hate herself very much - to deflect it on you the way she has done. And I agree, sounds like she has some mental health issues to address (I was thinking BPD as I read the first part of your update). Wishing you strength as you navigate this next phase. I'm told the grass IS greener on the other side. TMD, you said: "ETA: isn't this what your wife has done? Shamed you into complicity? This is her tactic, not yours." It seems she has done just that. And for years, I made a skill of ignoring her. All the while trying to get her to exercise with me, get healthy, etc. And I was good at it. Until recently, I rarely paid any attention to her insults and criticisms. I guess I got tired of that. You and petrushka both mentioned BPD. An old friend of mine mentioned that one as well. And the therapist did too. She's just not reckless. Not now. In fact, she's so cautious as to not like traveling outside the country for fear (ostensibly) of terrorism. But my buddy tells me that BPD at 54 looks different than BPD at 24. If I had to guess, I'd say she might be Paranoid Personality Disorder. She actually fits all those criteria. Every one of them. Trust no one. Holds grudges. All of it. Very few friends and none of them close. Closer to animals than people. Again, with animals and kids, she can imagine them as she likes. And you're also not the only one to mention self-loathing. AND, imagine over the past year, I've tried even harder to get her to exercise and eat healthy with me. Some of the long timers may recall I've been trying to get her to take care if herself for years. Now -- almost as a thumb her nose at me -- she's NEVER going to the gym I joined AFTER SHE DID. And she's drinking pop and eating candy and chips with every meal. And she's got the McDonalds "Big Drink" thing every morning with her dog walk. She's literally exploding right in front of me! I'm not a professional, but obviously there is an issue and it's deeply unhealthy. As well, the eating habits are a huge sign that she's not happy with herself (personally, I understand this well). I hope that you can enlist resources for yourself, the kids - to work through this transition. Divorce is not the end of the world and many -- if not most -- people survive it. Perhaps your pastor can recommend some options? You have had a 'time out' this past year. Your being, your personhood is equally as important as those in your immediate family. Hope your kids see that one day.
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Post by petrushka on Aug 15, 2017 0:31:37 GMT -5
Creel, good to hear from you again. It's been a while. I hope your kids handle this well. It must be very tough on them to see their parents separate. But you and wife are doing that gently in front of them so that is good. Good luck with your upcoming divorce. We'll, it started out gentle. And I'm trying. Maybe my wife is just more practical than I am. She assured me that we couldn't stay civil for long. And we're at each other's throats now. My son texted me at work today asking when I'd be home. He had questions. So I came straight home. He asked why mom and I didn't just do a timeout. Or a separation before just going for divorce. It was a good question. But one I really don't have a good answer to. I told him I need mom to take responsibility and demonstrate accountability. And that wouldn't happen if I'm just living in a tenement or a friend's basement. (Truth is, she'd probably love that as long as I stopped by and cut the grass and fixed stuff.) He rocked my world. And my daughter is having meltdowns. Apparently, she was crying violently for a half hour this afternoon. What am I doing? Why couldn't I just stick to the plan? My hopes of mutually agreeable solutions and family harmony through this divorce is just stupid. This is violent and there's no other way to consider it. If someone here has done this with teenagers, I'd love to hear done counsel. Seeing and talking about the fear my little girl is facing has me feeling like a monster. Seriously. petrushka , you asked about guilt and shame? This is shame. Except - I don't think you have done anything shameful. You have not done something immoral, hurtful, mean, on purpose. On the contrary: You have tried to right the ship of your marital relationship and you have found that your wife is intent on fomenting nothing but trouble, you're rowing in one direction and she's throwing out anchors and rowing in the other direction. Yelling angrily at you allthewhile. This horrid painful situation you're in is well known to me, I have gone through it twice in my life. If this helps any: take the advice of your concerned friends. Save yourself, and save your children. You cannot save your wife, and you cannot save the marriage, that much is clear. My personal ethical compass says: if somebody says they hate me, then they are out of my purview. I will not take (or try to take) responsibility for them. In the end, you have to look after number one first. You sound confused to me, and maybe on the edge of a depression. Just take it easy, as much as you can. Actually treat yourself to something. Spend time with the kids if you can manage. I don't think the kids hate you, and I bet the dog probably thinks you're hot stuff, too. Yes, there's emotional upheaval for your daughter - there's uncertainty in her future and she doesn't like that. There's no knowing how that will pan out. Hopefully she'll get to see that you cannot live with your wife's anger and abuse for the rest of your life. Try to explain that to her. Then hope she gets it. There are no guarantees. At this stage your kids will mostly be concerned with their own agenda, their comfort and the stability of their home base. That does not mean they're incapable of understanding, if they want to or if they need to.
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Post by baza on Aug 15, 2017 3:00:16 GMT -5
I can't offer you any suggestions that will deliver instant relief from this stage of the process Brother @creelunion .
What I CAN attest to, is that *everyone* "gets over" this tumultuous part of proceedings (or at least gets over it as much as they are ever going to) given a bit of time. How much time is as different as the personalities involved. As an example, it didn't take my eldest very long at all to come to terms with it. My ex otoh took probably a couple of years. My youngest (a teenager at the time) took at least 3 months before he'd even talk to me (beyond monosybles)
And then, there's *you* as well. Your needs and emotional responses are just as important as every-one and any-one-elses involved in the dynamic.
I would say in my situation, the main players (ex wife, 2 kids and me) after a couple of years had developed healthy relationships with each other, based on reality rather than the bullshit that had preceded. Just as well actually, as my ex missus died unexpectedly in 2015 (I left in 2009) and the hatchet had been well buried by then, and my relationship with my kids was very sound indeed. I dunno how I would have felt had my ex missus and I not made the peace. Pretty ordinary I would speculate.
Time. In an ILIASM shithole it is your enemy. In recovering from an ILIASM shithole, time is your friend.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 8:30:22 GMT -5
Friend. This is not shame and guilt. This is real life. And as difficult as it is, one needs to be present in what is happening and plow through with what must be done. Im really sorry that your daughter is having a rough go. I really am. Two anecdotes that might provide some perspective if nothing. I had a friend whose parents divorced once her and her sibling were out of the house. She was pissed. She told me she felt her childhood was a sham. That her parents denied themselves a lifetime of happiness for their sake. Her mom was not altogether well in the head and she wished her father would have reacted to that instead of living like nobody noticed anything. The second is that when I was younger my father told me that to be happy in life, one had to be brave. At the time I had no clue why the fuck my father would say such a heavy thing to a kid. As I became an adult, Ive learned many times over what he was trying to say. Im sorry I do not have better words for you to consume and ponder. But if anything please know that these words are genuine and that they come from a place of concern from another human being that has been touched by the rawness of your words and the experience you are living through. Im sending strength and positivity your way so that you can be steadfast as you make your way through a treacherous part of the journey. Keep the faith. Daddeeo, This is comforting. But maybe I'm a little dense. What did your father mean by; "To be happy in life, one has to be brave"? I wonder about the whole "Happy" thing. I'm looking for Peace.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 15, 2017 8:54:24 GMT -5
To live a happy life, one has to be brave enough to be your authentic self instead of living life in a futile quest to please everyone,
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Post by WindSister on Aug 15, 2017 9:16:15 GMT -5
It is not all your fault. I feel like you are carrying everyone's pain on your own shoulders and darn, that's a heavy load. Please ease up on yourself. Please offer YOURSELF some compassion, forgiveness, some empathy.. some LOVE. This is hard FOR YOU, too.
No, it's not easy and everyone will have to process, come to grips with the new reality and process it in a way that they can live with, that makes sense to them. You can't fix everything for everyone. All you can do is love your kids through it. Be dad. You are always dad, whether you are married or not.
Breathe. Love yourself a little. And Be Dad.
It is a time of transition and things get rocky.
But they get better with time as Baz said.
Hang in there... you have support here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 10:32:47 GMT -5
I can't offer you any suggestions that will deliver instant relief from this stage of the process Brother @creelunion . What I CAN attest to, is that *everyone* "gets over" this tumultuous part of proceedings (or at least gets over it as much as they are ever going to) given a bit of time. How much time is as different as the personalities involved. As an example, it didn't take my eldest very long at all to come to terms with it. My ex otoh took probably a couple of years. My youngest (a teenager at the time) took at least 3 months before he'd even talk to me (beyond monosybles) And then, there's *you* as well. Your needs and emotional responses are just as important as every-one and any-one-elses involved in the dynamic. I would say in my situation, the main players (ex wife, 2 kids and me) after a couple of years had developed healthy relationships with each other, based on reality rather than the bullshit that had preceded. Just as well actually, as my ex missus died unexpectedly in 2015 (I left in 2009) and the hatchet had been well buried by then, and my relationship with my kids was very sound indeed. I dunno how I would have felt had my ex missus and I not made the peace. Pretty ordinary I would speculate. Time. In an ILIASM shithole it is your enemy. In recovering from an ILIASM shithole, time is your friend. baza, Thank you. This WAS Instant Relief. I don't want my kids struggling. If this becomes devastating to them, I WILL just eat the mess for ...... as long as I can. But, these kinds of anecdotes help. My wife makes a point of telling me I'm killing them. It's hard to take. And another case of me not being able to tell if she's sincere, not, or if that concept even bears any weight in her case. I don't know what of hers to keep and what to discard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 10:36:32 GMT -5
It is not all your fault. I feel like you are carrying everyone's pain on your own shoulders and darn, that's a heavy load. Please ease up on yourself. Please offer YOURSELF some compassion, forgiveness, some empathy.. some LOVE. This is hard FOR YOU, too. No, it's not easy and everyone will have to process, come to grips with the new reality and process it in a way that they can live with, that makes sense to them. You can't fix everything for everyone. All you can do is love your kids through it. Be dad. You are always dad, whether you are married or not. Breathe. Love yourself a little. And Be Dad. It is a time of transition and things get rocky. But they get better with time as Baz said. Hang in there... you have support here. Thanks. I've heard this before. Almost Verbatim. Awake, you remind me of someone.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 15, 2017 10:47:14 GMT -5
It is not all your fault. I feel like you are carrying everyone's pain on your own shoulders and darn, that's a heavy load. Please ease up on yourself. Please offer YOURSELF some compassion, forgiveness, some empathy.. some LOVE. This is hard FOR YOU, too. No, it's not easy and everyone will have to process, come to grips with the new reality and process it in a way that they can live with, that makes sense to them. You can't fix everything for everyone. All you can do is love your kids through it. Be dad. You are always dad, whether you are married or not. Breathe. Love yourself a little. And Be Dad. It is a time of transition and things get rocky. But they get better with time as Baz said. Hang in there... you have support here. Thanks. I've heard this before. Almost Verbatim. Awake, you remind me of someone. I am probably just pulling together all the advise I got from other EP'ers over the years. I have seriously never found such people in other forums, that's why I stay here. Most of my "favorites" from back then (people I really connected with) don't seem to be here. I appreciate those that came here, though, too. Immensely! I used to post A LOT before my divorce at EP. I shared my entire "leaving" almost daily like Sham did here. But I deleted it all, which I do regret. The Blue Collar Belaggio experience is one I wish I had kept because those five days in that crappy hotel were life changing. I guess I hold it my heart, but I wish I had saved the writings. We get you. These are tough times. Hang tough.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 14:15:26 GMT -5
baza , I don't want my kids struggling. If this becomes devastating to them, I WILL just eat the mess for ...... as long as I can. But, these kinds of anecdotes help. My wife makes a point of telling me I'm killing them. It's hard to take. And another case of me not being able to tell if she's sincere, not, or if that concept even bears any weight in her case. I don't know what of hers to keep and what to discard. My friend, you will be ok. Your kids are repeating what their mother has told them. Just keep on reassuring them that everything will be ok, you love them, and you will not criticize their mother to them. I am sure they know what she is like. This will end.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 15, 2017 14:39:13 GMT -5
One has to defiine for themselves what hapiness means. To me its peace of mind and tranquility of soul. What my father meant is there will be times when one has to take action that is difficult and unpopular but is the right thing to do. One cannot let the avoidance of pain, suffering, frustration and all the other things that may come with unpopular decisions become the thing that prevents you from choosing the right path. You will lose your sense of self, your authenticity in the process Or said another way, as bballgirl would say: Fortune favors the bold What did your father mean by; "To be happy in life, one has to be brave"? I wonder about the whole "Happy" thing. I'm looking for Peace.
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Post by lwoetin on Aug 15, 2017 20:12:48 GMT -5
Creel, good to hear from you again. It's been a while. I hope your kids handle this well. It must be very tough on them to see their parents separate. But you and wife are doing that gently in front of them so that is good. Good luck with your upcoming divorce. We'll, it started out gentle. And I'm trying. Maybe my wife is just more practical than I am. She assured me that we couldn't stay civil for long. And we're at each other's throats now. My son texted me at work today asking when I'd be home. He had questions. So I came straight home. He asked why mom and I didn't just do a timeout. Or a separation before just going for divorce. It was a good question. But one I really don't have a good answer to. I told him I need mom to take responsibility and demonstrate accountability. And that wouldn't happen if I'm just living in a tenement or a friend's basement. (Truth is, she'd probably love that as long as I stopped by and cut the grass and fixed stuff.) He rocked my world. And my daughter is having meltdowns. Apparently, she was crying violently for a half hour this afternoon. What am I doing? Why couldn't I just stick to the plan? My hopes of mutually agreeable solutions and family harmony through this divorce is just stupid. This is violent and there's no other way to consider it. If someone here has done this with teenagers, I'd love to hear done counsel. Seeing and talking about the fear my little girl is facing has me feeling like a monster. Seriously. petrushka, you asked about guilt and shame? This is shame. I have a 16yr old daughter too. And 13 yr old son. I don't know what I would do either. I don't think I have the fortitude to be part of the stay for the kids camp. But my wife has saved me from that nightmare. Unlike yours, she doesn't think I'm delusional. Instead she thinks I'm obsessed with sex. Which is just fine. Hopefully you can find something to ease your kids through the divorce process. Take it slow if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 20:22:53 GMT -5
We'll, it started out gentle. And I'm trying. Maybe my wife is just more practical than I am. She assured me that we couldn't stay civil for long. And we're at each other's throats now. My son texted me at work today asking when I'd be home. He had questions. So I came straight home. He asked why mom and I didn't just do a timeout. Or a separation before just going for divorce. It was a good question. But one I really don't have a good answer to. I told him I need mom to take responsibility and demonstrate accountability. And that wouldn't happen if I'm just living in a tenement or a friend's basement. (Truth is, she'd probably love that as long as I stopped by and cut the grass and fixed stuff.) He rocked my world. And my daughter is having meltdowns. Apparently, she was crying violently for a half hour this afternoon. What am I doing? Why couldn't I just stick to the plan? My hopes of mutually agreeable solutions and family harmony through this divorce is just stupid. This is violent and there's no other way to consider it. If someone here has done this with teenagers, I'd love to hear done counsel. Seeing and talking about the fear my little girl is facing has me feeling like a monster. Seriously. petrushka , you asked about guilt and shame? This is shame. I have a 16yr old daughter too. And 13 yr old son. I don't know what I would do either. I don't think I have the fortitude to be part of the stay for the kids camp. But my wife has saved me from that nightmare. Unlike yours, she doesn't think I'm delusional. Instead she thinks I'm obsessed with sex. Which is just fine. Hopefully you can find something to ease your kids through the divorce process. Take it slow if possible. How did your wife save you? Are you divorcing now?
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