Our fault

I've come back and re-read this about 5 times Brother @thecelt , but I can't quite grasp what you are getting at.
Can you clarify ?

Ah, that helps lyn
I hadn't looked at it that way.

Most people arrive here and post a few anecdotes about their avoidant spouse. This taking of the spouses inventory seems to come with the territory.
Some just keep taking their spouses inventory, again and again and again. Their focus remaining firmly on their spouse (about whom they can do nothing).

Then, some move forward, and start taking an inventory of themselves (about which they CAN do something) and start to focus on themselves, and drastically reducing the amount of time they spend "why chasing" their avoidant spouse. This self inventory is bloody hard and challenging work.

I think that taking one's avoidant spouses inventory is a pretty natural (though unproductive) part of the ILIASM shithole deal.
But continuing to focus on the avoidant spouse, continuing to take their inventory again and again is just treading water... but it is a very tempting thing to engage in - as it delays (and sometimes stops dead) facing the big issue.
What (if anything) are YOU going to do about it.

If you can't sound off about personal situations here, where else can you sound off? Many here, perhaps even yourself(?) have no one IRL to share with, especially someone whp understands. I'm lucky that I do.
Don't you think that it's because those who have stayed so long in their marriages are actually very strong people? I shot myself down for years for being so weak for staying so long and for putting up with so much. My individual counsellor pointed out that it was in fact the opposite. I stayed because I was strong and was a good role model for my daughters.
If you look at the makeup of this group and formerly EP, you see that most haven't got divorced after 2.3,5 or even 10/15 years. Many of us have been here for the long haul including yourself. 20/30 years perhaps. The reasons for staying vary from individual to individual. Kids, financial, beliefs, hopes for change, I could go on.
I say this tenderly... Don't fault those who frustrate you at their seeming lack of strength at doing what YOU think is the right thing to do. I understand your frustration,as we all look at others IRL and here and think " why don't you...?" or " if I was you I'd... ".
I don't want to make this about the person with the debt as that's not fair to them, but YOU see "mug" written over their face, but look at it this way, perhaps they genuinely have a heart and despite being denied for years and years, they still don't want to crush the other party just because they can. It's precisely BECAUSE many of us ARE decent, caring people that we have stayed so long. Ask yourself why YOU stayed so long...someone else might point out that after listening to stories on EP you should have done this or that. Yes, it IS frustrating to watch someone do what we think isn't right for them, but all we can do as a group is voice that as advice and be here to listen and console and accept that not everyone does it the way we think that they should my friend thecelt.

I certainly dont agree that this is 'our fault'. Perhaps we should agree a mutual blame, that the two of us werent on 'the same page' when we got together.(it was a bit of a con-trick though in all fairness !) I suppose I never used to object to the control that was going on even in the early days. I dont think I even realised it was happening,I was too wrapped up in trying to be a good partner and look after my spouse in every and anyway I could. I thought the lack of interest in things physical was just a gender variation. I even thought the being pushed away mid-hug was also the same thing. I think I realised things were going wrong badly after child birth, and I knew also that I would lose my child, my dog, my cat if I left. I couldnt cope with that, perhaps exposing yet more weakness. I also knew by then that tempers from the spouse would flair at any opportunity, and I didnt like what I saw when that happened, so once again maintaining the peace seemed logical. So much so that even all these years later, apparently we are a happy family, as far as 99% of friends and relatives are concerned.
Imagine my surprise therefore to learn there are members of the opposite sex who enjoy intimacy at every level, and dont require to be in charge of everything. And when I say everything, I mean anything from choosing what we are having for dinner, to where and when we socialise, go on vacation, and live. Levels of resentment have grown sharply over the last few years, but still I have smoothed over things on all occasions. As a result suffering stress related illness twice so far. I feel I need to get out, but finances for the first time in my life have changed, its no longer so easy. An excuse I hear you saying. I am also frightened by the feeling of being alone, worse than I do now. I'm also in fear of meeting another person who is the same. It did after all take some time to reveal itself. I suppose, I'm damaged. But I still dont think this is my fault. Maybe its no-ones fault. Like adding chemical ingredients, some produce a toxic result. I really need to find a way forward, and this place has already helped me towards that. Hope I havent drifted off topic too far. I'm claiming mitigation through stupidity. Or is that inexperience. OK, lets blame it on school !

Yes, a big part of my problem is resentment that *I* am the one who had to do something, even though *he* was the one who changed the rules unilaterally.

Underneath that is hurt that he may not have loved me enough to think it was worth it to make an effort and do something about our problems.

Feelings of resentment and hurt are probably normal. But they can stand in the way of you doing things to help yourself.

As long as I was being stubborn and saying, "It's not fair! He helped to break this, so he should help to fix it," I wasn't doing anything.

And, the hurt and the pain. I think that's inevitable, and unfortunately, I have not yet found a way to speed that process up.

The Golden Nuggets of Excellent Advice are all over these pages.  Yes so too are bellyachers and complainers . . . of which I was truly one. 

I started here seeking the MORAL HIGH GROUND - it was HER fault, I was the "innocent victim"  . . . and then something very strange happened (well strange for me) . .. 

I started examining MY ROLE and where it was MY FAULT.    And that only got so far . . . then came the HARD PART where I had to dig deep, very deep into myself.  TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE.  

Was the Marriage savable?  I looked at what MYSELF was capable of.  What did I want?  My mantra of "Two good reasons to stay married for my two children, got critically examined.   Did I still love her?  Were the over 10 years of SM just a fatal blow to our Couple?   Did we even have a "couple" to begin with?   And what were my motivations?  Was I staying where I am because of FEAR?   What was I afraid of?  Etc. 

So yes, WE come here full of belly aching and dump it all on these forums but also absolutely are years and years of excellent EXPERIENCE based ADVICE.  

So now I got my own apartment and in process of separating.  I have no illusions.  It is disruptive. Painful. I will go down on the socio-economic scale at least a little - and it will cost me a lot in tears and dollars but so be it.  What is my PRICE of FREEDOM.   Because freedom of course is never free.

And yes at the end of the day NOTHING gets done WITHOUT ACTION and a carefully weighed DECISION and PREPARATION before acting.

Excellent thought provoking post.  

o

True @thecelt, and that's okay. It's a give and take really. Least imho.