listedship
Junior Member
Posts: 38 
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by listedship on Feb 16, 2017 12:49:11 GMT -5
Life can be so complicated.
Married 25 years, married young to an older woman at a younger age. At first life was grand, I worked, she raised kids. I spent lots of time working, provided all we needed and more.
Our sex life slowed with age (it was never good and in joining this forum I have found it was sexless from the onset), she made more excuses, blamed her feelings about her appearance more and more on why we should not have a sexual relationship. I accepted her issues from her parents about sex (sex is bad, only bad people do "those things"), I accepted that life was not the same, hoped that when the kids would grow - maybe we would have a normal sex life (thinking that 10 times a year would be incredible). Encounters became less and less frequent, once a quarter, twice a year. I have tried to spice life up, vacation without kids, more and more excuses, more and more "not tonight's", "not Now", "I am just not interested", "we have to get up early"
. I remember one year I kept a log of nights I requested intimacy vs actually being intimate - after 2 months of no contact and more than two dozen attempts I decided that was a clear enough picture.
I contemplated an affair, met a younger woman, we talked... it was exhilarating. Feeling special, feeling wanted. I backed out of the relationship, my wife eventually found out. Nothing ever happened, but I was told if I was even considering cheating, I was guilty. Nothing in our relationship changed...... if anything she is less interested in sex with me. I am told all the time how she loves me, "aren't we a great couple", "I look forward to us growing old together"..... but at the same time, more "not tonight".
I lust for other women all the time. I want a sexual relationship. I have some religious hang-ups - that make it tough for me to just walk out. I know life could be happier.... I am an attractive man. Women talk and flirt with me.
Do I just walk out. Talking has never been a problem, but has never resulted in a change.
Too young to be miserable. 45 is right around the corner. Life could be happier. To have a relationship where love and lust are part of our commitment would be refreshing.
Cheating seems temporary, doesn't seem to solve. Even if I found the "right" other woman, I would want to move forward with them at some time.
Our life is so entangled, divorce would be years of mess....
How to right the ship?
I originally posed this on CL - to have everyone tell me talk to her, I was the problem, I emotionally cheated on her. I quit responding because I am already sad, depressed about this (including looking to another), very lonely, and frustrated. I know my religious hangup in this is my issue and does not make sense to many - how could I contemplate cheating, how can I lust for another, etc....
I pathetically followed the advice of people on CL - had a conversation about how I crave a sexual relationship, intimacy, physical relationship. This immediately brought up the woman I spoke with (now 6 years ago), immediately brought up I am younger, sex crazed, that I should appreciate the intimacy we do have (now 1 to 2x a year) rather than always want more. That expecting her to do something she is uncomfortable with to begin with is me being unreasonable.
I do not know how many more hobbies I can take up, motivating books I can read to make me stronger and accept that which I can not change, sports I can follow......etc..... to distract me from what I want.
With 25 years into this - our families, my business, kids, grandchildren all intertwined like some sadistic tool of manipulation. I question if having a mistress is the only way I could have a sexual relationship.
Sorry for venting. Would love to hear some advice from people in similar situations, or have moved on to a better life. People happier and smarter than me.
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 16, 2017 17:22:49 GMT -5
I find it interesting that the very people you confide in to maybe get a "hey you're not alone" only slather on the guilt. You are guilty. Guilty of wanting something. Guilty of asking the question, "shouldn't there be more to this?".
To be blunt, having an affair can be detrimental in ways you would not even think would happen. Since you are already having guilt issues for having just thought about an affair; I can't say I would recommend that route to you.
However, in my experience, going outside of a low/no sex marriage can definitely be an eye opener! Having someone who really wants you and attacks the problem with enthusiasm will do a lot for one's confidence and self esteem.
I am very familiar with the whole extended family wrapping themselves around you and seem to snare you into staying. But would I really be letting them go if we divorced?
As the child of divorced parents, I can say yes, yes you will be losing some of them. It is painful for all involved. But, as I have said in other posts I now know that the divorce was necessary and our lives were better afterwards.
Am I following my own advise? No, I am still here, but I am content with the solution I have found outside of the marriage.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 16, 2017 17:55:56 GMT -5
Welcome. You are NOT alone. In these threads and discussions are many many experienced and sympathetic folks.
One of the first things I heard here was
1. Stay
2. Cheat
3. Leave
Those are the 3 basic choices and all derivatives seem to boil down to just those 3.
I am sympathetic to your religious reasons for wanting to stay married. I am in my second marriage and vowed never to get divorced again because it was too painful - for our daughter and my wife and my parent in laws etc. I chose to get divorced and I caused a lot of pain to people I cared for. That is why divorce is so horrible in my experience .
Still, after over 12 years since my first divorce I have a great loving relationship with our daughter. For this current marriage there are two children and the divorce will cause pain to my current W and our children and her Mother and everyone on both sides of the family. So is the pain of the divorce the lesser evil of staying in a sexless miserable marriage - where I am miserable? Yes. it is worth it.
I cheated or "outsourced" for many years and I can tell you it is just a "Coping mechanism" or distraction and only kicks the can down the road.
So I am being as honest as I can be to myself and probably divorcing in the coming months
WELCOME - my advice is to read as much of these posts and threads as you can. Really really good people in these forums - I have learned A LOT and I am sure you will to (about ourselves).
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Feb 16, 2017 19:04:21 GMT -5
This is an exceedingly uplifting forum for being about such a sad and challenging struggle.
I hope you can read through some of the pages and get some good information for you to assess what you really need in your life.
If what you really need is to be with your family there are things you can do. If having an emotionally and physically fulfilling relationship is what you really need there are also things you can do.
I am so sorry you are in this situation, I also married young (18) so I can sympathize with not truly knowing what is a 'normal' amount that I need in a relationship. Twice a year is not normal.
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 16, 2017 23:41:48 GMT -5
Similar situation, happier, but not smarter. I have my religious hangups too, in my faith there is a sacrament of confession and forgiveness of sin. So we get multiple chances. I'm not sure about divorce though so it is last resort. I will try everything I can think of before I lose my marriage, family and religion. And threatening divorce was one of them, which had biggest effect. Chances are good if you love each other. Good luck.
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Post by warmways on Feb 17, 2017 0:15:18 GMT -5
It seems like you're in the sorting out phase. It's complex.
Maybe the dust needs to settle first for you to see the choice you need to make and you need to try to keep yourself as well and together as you can while feeling so unfulfilled. Outsourcing is probably a band aid I guess.
Allow yourself to gain clarity on what you really want to do by reading and commenting on here. . Sometimes distancing from the turmoil of thinking about your own SM and commenting to others helps. . After a while all the distractions like following sports as you wrote or trying to convince yourself that you can get by don't work and you realize you're too lonely. I hope that you can find peace with staying or with a choice you make to leave.
It's so hard but eventually you'll know your choice. I'm still in a sexless and love-less marriage. I've had to be endlessly patient with myself..ultimately it's your job to act in a way that is best for you.
This is a great place to really learn a lot and move at your own pace.
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Post by baza on Feb 17, 2017 1:38:29 GMT -5
You are "Not sure what (you) want".
What you want - like most of us - is for the situation to be resolved, perhaps by some cosmic event or other where no one gets hurt, everyone behaves like adults, and no-one has to be the bad guy.
Well, that's what I wanted anyway.
Unfortunately, since Feb 2009 (when I joined this groups predecessor) I ain't seen that happen.
Not once.
IF your deal is going to get resolved, 'someone' is going to have to drive that process, and given that it is you who is the dis-satisfied spouse in this dynamic, YOU are elected to be that person.
If you read here extensively, you will see examples of what lies ahead of you - and it is in no way whatsoever a painless process.
Welcome.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 4:39:10 GMT -5
You are "Not sure what (you) want". What you want - like most of us - is for the situation to be resolved, perhaps by some cosmic event or other where no one gets hurt, everyone behaves like adults, and no-one has to be the bad guy. Well, that's what I wanted anyway. Unfortunately, since Feb 2009 (when I joined this groups predecessor) I ain't seen that happen. Not once. IF your deal is going to get resolved, 'someone' is going to have to drive that process, and given that it is you who is the dis-satisfied spouse in this dynamic, YOU are elected to be that person. If you read here extensively, you will see examples of what lies ahead of you - and it is in no way whatsoever a painless process. Welcome. Boom! brutal and TRUE as true can be. Beautiful and succinct. |
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Post by rejected101 on Feb 17, 2017 6:00:03 GMT -5
Your religious hang ups are no reason to completely turn your back on happiness. Wanting sex a couple of times per month (ideally slightly more) is a perfectly normal and reasonable hope to have within a marriage. Having sex a couple or maybe 3 times a year to me is just unthinkable and I know for a fact that I would cheat or leave if things were that bad. In order to survive, every relationship needs connection. The stronger the connection the better the relationship. To you (I'm guessing) and to me and to many others on this forum, sex is one of the BIGGEST ingredients of connection (it's not the only ingredient, it's not the most important ingredient but it sure as hell is one of the key ingredients). I'm not quite sure who in their right mind would sit there and tell you that sex is bad. That is some fucked up asexual weird stuff right there so just completely ignore that shite!
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Post by csl on Feb 17, 2017 6:35:22 GMT -5
I see that you speak of "religious hang up"; I am a blogger who writes about sexless marriages from a religious viewpoint, and unlike baza, I do know of sexless marriages that have changed. My url is in my signature, below. If you go to my blog, click on the Sexless Marriage link at the top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 8:13:34 GMT -5
To the OP, I'm sorry you find yourself in this messy situation. The folks on this forum feel your pain. There are no easy answers when there are children. And in your case, a business, grandchildren, etc. Many of us here are in a similar situation - between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean there's no way out. It just means you'll have to pick the path with the greatest reward at the end of the tunnel. Yes, there's going to be pain, no matter which way you turn. Pain is a natural part of life though. We can't have joy without it. They're the yin and the yang.
I would think your religious convictions (which make divorce look like a last resort) would also prevent adultery. They should. CSL's blog is an excellent resource for Christian men in your situation. As a woman in a SM, I've also gotten some great ideas.
Biblically speaking, you've been abandoned in your marriage. Husband and wife are suppose to submit their bodies to one another. You'll have to look honestly at your part in it and read csl's advice for yourself, but if there's no turnaround, divorce (not adultery) is the answer.
Jmho. Always have hope. There is a light at the end of every tunnel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 8:20:44 GMT -5
listedship, well, keep asking yourself and keep investigating. Took me a long time to know what i want: I want to be happy to be myself, by myself, and to find joy in myself. I want to love my kids and show them they are loved without condition. I want to live a rich and full life, surrounded by the things I am interested in. I want to keep growing. I want to be constantly curious. I want to be humble, willing to be wrong, and willing to let go. I want to let go of the "shoulds" and the person i think other people want me to be. I want to examine this pain and loneliness and turn it into meaning. I want to be happy. Oh, and maybe I want to be married. But only if it's to a person who wants the same things for herself. Like you, I'm waiting for my wife to figure out if she wants the same thing. I don't have the religious reason--i just still love her and am willing to let the dust settle after we move and start up our new life. If things continue to stay the same? Well, maybe for her. She can be whoever she wants. I know what I want, and it's something different than what I've put up with. This is an excellent list, earthhorse. What stands out for me, and what I need in life (and a future partner) are lifelong learning, continual growth, meaning, a deep sense of peace, and occasionally - happiness, fleeting as it is. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 10:17:17 GMT -5
listedship , well, keep asking yourself and keep investigating. Took me a long time to know what i want: I want to be happy to be myself, by myself, and to find joy in myself. I want to love my kids and show them they are loved without condition. I want to live a rich and full life, surrounded by the things I am interested in. I want to keep growing. I want to be constantly curious. I want to be humble, willing to be wrong, and willing to let go. I want to let go of the "shoulds" and the person i think other people want me to be. I want to examine this pain and loneliness and turn it into meaning. I want to be happy. Oh, and maybe I want to be married. But only if it's to a person who wants the same things for herself. Like you, I'm waiting for my wife to figure out if she wants the same thing. I don't have the religious reason--i just still love her and am willing to let the dust settle after we move and start up our new life. If things continue to stay the same? Well, maybe for her. She can be whoever she wants. I know what I want, and it's something different than what I've put up with. Thank-you Earthhorse - this is really profound and I will keep in my pocket. May I ask that the main reason (or even ONLY reason) you are still with your Wife and trying is because you LOVE her? If there was no love left then what would you do? Just trying to understand - it helps to get fellow members input on the importance of love in a relationship. Thank-you again. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 17, 2017 12:38:06 GMT -5
You have tried to talk to your wife, but she turns it right around to it all being YOUR problem - that's a red flag if you ask me. Is she not willing to see her own actions/behavior and how they affect your relationship?
It wasn't until after we divorced my ex finally admitted to me he just "wanted things to work out" but admitted he didn't put the effort in. I was literally spinning my wheels (or the only one rowing the boat) for NOTHING. He was not participating. Finally I gave up, walked out. I haven't regretted it one bit since.
I am not telling you what to do - just sharing my experience. I feel for you, where you are -- been there. Don't settle and don't believe that you are to blame for everything.
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listedship
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by listedship on Feb 21, 2017 15:59:00 GMT -5
Hello everyone and thank you for the understanding, advice, and help. I have been reading around this forum quite a bit.
Do I love my wife - going back to my original opening - I do not know what I want. I am not sure of this answer. I have become so driven with lust for a woman to desire me, flirt with me, have sex appeal for me so that I can reciprocate, I am not sure if I do. I think I may have already understood that this is just treading water until I find the right person.
She does care for me. She knows things that I like and does many things just to make me happy. We are not on different paths completely - but it does feel like her path is more important than mine.
I do think that denying is really her method of control. I do not know if others experience this, but if she notices me watching another woman, talking with another woman she will become more playful and flirt with me with the idea of having sex. Come night time - pajamas and snoring. I would get really frustrated with this for years. Now I just let her pretend like something would happen, and maintain my 0 expectation of anything ever actually happening.
I have gone to therapy, it was great for me. I worked out many issues and am a much better man because of having someone to talk to and hear another side. She refuses couples therapy, and has gone to therapy on her own many times in the past. She wants to talk about all the issues in her family - not us. I think that is where I feel the hurt the most. She views everyone elses issues/problems as important, wants to help them. She can talk about her mother, father, siblings and how bad their life was growing up, ignoring her own husband, denying him, and repetitively bringing up me "cheating" on her when we had a sexless marriage for 20 years before this. It just becomes so tiring, depressing, not worth a fight.
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