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Post by Chatter Fox on Dec 6, 2016 12:44:59 GMT -5
Deep questions that I've been pondering lately.
Can you CHOOSE to love someone? Can you choose WHO to love? If you love someone, can you choose to stop? If you don't love someone anymore, can you choose to love them again?
I guess, what I'm wondering, is whether or not love is a choice at all. Do we even have much control over this? Are we kidding ourselves when we try to allow our brains to interfere with matters of the heart?
Anyone have any deep thoughts churning around in their heads about all this stuff? Because I sure do.
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 6, 2016 14:04:26 GMT -5
No deep thoughts but perhaps a couple shallow facets about my experience. I came to love my X over an extended period of dating and being engaged. I really came to feel we were perfect for each other on so many levels and for the 1st couple years of our marriage that seemed the case. But then the intimacy just seemed to dry up and in spite of my efforts to discover the "why" and remedy what was wrong the relationship continued to go downhill. No amount of talking or reflecting on how unhappy I was made any lasting impression, only ushering in short periods of intimacy and then relapsing into the same pattern of avoidance and disdain. I eventually sought and succeeded in distancing myself from her and we eventually divorced. I thought having been single for so long I would simply return to that mindset but it hasn't worked out that way. I found I missed having her around, traveling around the country and just sharing in the day to day events that life sent our way. Basically I think I still love her but I'm not in love with her anymore. We still date and occasionally are intimate so we have morphed into more of a friends with benefits relationship. So can you choose to love someone? Yes. Can you choose to stop? I did for a year or so. Can you choose to love them again? Apparently so.
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Post by darktippedrose on Dec 6, 2016 14:12:25 GMT -5
I don't think that love is always a choice. Some times is obligatory, its pulled out of you, like when you have children with someone.
but thats just my opinion
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 6, 2016 16:00:20 GMT -5
Chatter Fox, I believe the answers to your questions are "Yes". Can fate and chemistry intervene and accelerate the process? Sure. Can conflicts destroy the process? Certainly. I think love is an attitude as much as anything. Which means it can be "learned" and "unlearned". We like to think we've found "the one", but I think that's a matter of perspective and attitude, and in reality there are a bunch of people out there who would be excellent mates. It's a question of being happy with who they are and willing to look past their faults. How they treat us has a big influence on that attitude. Character / trust is also a huge factor... it's easy to assume / build in the beginning. It's much harder to rebuild after its been damaged. I'd wager that's a bigger factor than anything else.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 6, 2016 16:13:15 GMT -5
Chatter Fox , I believe the answers to your questions are "Yes". Can fate and chemistry intervene and accelerate the process? Sure. Can conflicts destroy the process? Certainly. I think love is an attitude as much as anything. Which means it can be "learned" and "unlearned". We like to think we've found "the one", but I think that's a matter of perspective and attitude, and in reality there are a bunch of people out there who would be excellent mates. It's a question of being happy with who they are and willing to look past their faults. How they treat us has a big influence on that attitude. Character / trust is also a huge factor... it's easy to assume / build in the beginning. It's much harder to rebuild after its been damaged. I'd wager that's a bigger factor than anything else. Way off on the side........The word "attitude" gets misused. Speaking for myself ,over decades "watch your attitude", or "change your attitude" or "you have an attitude problem" or "time for an attitude adjustment". Lots , and lots of negative meaning in that word. Parents love to use that on their children.
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Post by jim44444 on Dec 6, 2016 16:16:12 GMT -5
Deep questions that I've been pondering lately. Can you CHOOSE to love someone? Can you choose WHO to love? If you love someone, can you choose to stop? If you don't love someone anymore, can you choose to love them again? I guess, what I'm wondering, is whether or not love is a choice at all. Do we even have much control over this? Are we kidding ourselves when we try to allow our brains to interfere with matters of the heart? Anyone have any deep thoughts churning around in their heads about all this stuff? Because I sure do. I believe we choose to manifest love in our lives and as such we choose to love someone. Because we chose to manifest love in our life we can then choose who to love. Every interaction with someone provides us the opportunity to expand our love. If we love someone can we choose to stop loving them? For me the answer is a simple no, for once I love someone they are stuck with my love until I die. I may distance myself from them, I may disapprove of their actions, I may not follow them on their journey but I will not stop loving them. Which provides my answer to your fourth question. To me love is infinite, the more I love the more I can love. To me there can be no "one and only", there are some more than others but there are many. The capacity to love will expand to encompass all those that I shall love.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 6, 2016 16:43:00 GMT -5
Love comes on different levels for each individual. Love involves giving and taking. Some find it easy to open their heart, expose themselves, with enough confidence to not be slowed down by a negative. Others have had physical, mental, emotional experiences that make opening up there heart, making themselves vulnerable to rejection very difficult. So two people can be in love, or love one another. While one has opened up there heart fully, and the other may never be capable of that and has opened their heart cautiously, slowly, in a smaller amount. (I know that seems rather simple, and that there are many other branches) Love comes and go in stages, shrinks, and expands, strengthens, and weakens.
Can you choose who? Yes, your surroundings may limit that. Can you choose to stop, and love them again? Yes. you may find yourself doing that daily,weekly, yearly.
Lastly, don't confuse love with passion, ecstasy ,lust, freakin' testosterone!!
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Post by baza on Dec 6, 2016 17:26:10 GMT -5
I think that in this ILIASM environment, we need to be real careful concerning exactly what we are talking about in regard to this subject.
I think that in here we often see cases of "co-dependence" or "traumatic bonding" which can exhibit very similar symptoms as "love", although they are very different things.
That's probably a debate to raise in another thread, so I'll try and stick to Brother beemans topic.
I think that we can - and do - choose who to love, but I think that choice is made at a very visceral level. It is not a "look at the facts and make a fully informed choice" situation.
I think that love can - and does - increase / diminish / change in response to the environment one is in. Example. I love Ms enna. I love her way more than I did 6 years ago. Yet, on Friday at about 6pm, at about the 875 k mark of our drive to a family re-union when we had a major disagreement over which exit to take off the M4, I didn't love her very much at all, at that moment. And, I figure that if there are enough of these sort of moments, continual and accruing, then eventually the love level is going to drop off. OTOH, if the relationship is nurtured, and the good things continue and accrue, then the love level is going to expand.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 6, 2016 17:33:54 GMT -5
Can you CHOOSE to love someone? Yes that's a conscious choice but it has a lot of layers. As well I can choose not to love someone. Choosing not to is much easier for me. I can control that. If I choose to love someone that is more complicated. I will always love them that is a truth for me. The degree of the love and the type of love, that can change.
Can you choose WHO to love? Yes that's where chemistry and attraction come in to start you on the path of love and by showing interest in each other, by wanting to spend time with them, do things for them and to them, compliment them, give them gifts, etc. we add to the layers of the love whether it's romantic love or love for our children.
If you love someone, can you choose to stop? I do believe romantic love is perishable. I don't think I can choose to stop but I think the love itself rots away like grass that's never watered. I'm not a believer in the grass is greener on the other side, the grass is greener where you water it.
If you don't love someone anymore, can you choose to love them again? Yes but it could be in a different way.
I guess, what I'm wondering, is whether or not love is a choice at all. Do we even have much control over this? Yes we do have control.
Are we kidding ourselves when we try to allow our brains to interfere with matters of the heart? No we are not kidding ourselves. I think the brain helps keep balance to the heart and keeps us grounded and realistic because what we want is true love and that's like finding a needle in a haystack.
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Post by unmatched on Dec 6, 2016 19:57:23 GMT -5
Great question, and great thread. I think I am largely in agreement with a lot of other posts here. I think we have a huge amount of choice in whether to love somebody or not. I think the potential is always there with anybody, and we can either choose to be open to it or not. Sometimes I look at somebody and recoil, and I don't even need to think to choose not to love them. Sometimes I am not in the right space for it, and I choose not to be open to it. Sometimes it just hits, but even then I think we have a lot more choice in the matter than we think.
And 'unloving' somebody is very difficult. Once the pathways in your brain, or your heart, or wherever they are, are opened up I don't think they ever really close. They don't for me. I still feel a soft spot for everybody I have ever been in a relationship with, and almost everybody who has ever been a close friend. I think the challenge is to let yourself feel that and have it be OK with you and still make the choices you want to make.
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Post by unmatched on Dec 6, 2016 19:57:59 GMT -5
the grass is greener where you water it. Love this! Awesome quote!!!!!
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Post by obobfla on Dec 6, 2016 20:33:44 GMT -5
First you have to define love.
If love is that initial sexual attraction, my answer is no. I am or I'm not. Whether it's a smile, a twinkle in the eye, a curve of the hip, or a flash of skin, I'm set off. There are women I've met who I wish I could love, but the chemistry wasn't there. I tried but couldn't.
The choice comes with what I do with that sexual attraction. Do I pursue her? Do I take a great mental picture of her, go home, and masturbate? Or do I let the feeling pass, thinking that we will never work out?
If I pursue her, will the attraction still be there? I find intelligence in a woman sexy, and the lack of it to be like a cold shower. I have met plenty of attractive girls who become a lot less attractive when they start talking. This is true of younger girls, and it keeps me from getting into a lot of trouble.
But if the attraction is still there, how do I get her to share her body with me? Part is my choice. I have to sell myself to her and hope she buys. But she may have little or no attraction to me. I might be wearing the same cologne her asshole ex-boyfriend wore. Maybe I'm just not her type.
But she wants me too! Okay, we go do the deed. Is it good? Yes! Let's do it again! Or no! I'll call you sometime.
So we hit it off. Is she going in the same direction that I am? Does she want what I want? If yes, we are still on track, and the relationship gets heavy-duty. Maybe we move in together.
As we get to know more about each other, it comes back to is the attraction still there? Or does she drive me crazy? I remember talking to an ex-girlfriend. She broke up with me first, but hearing her loud voice just turned off whatever desire I still had for her. I just kept wishing she had a volume control.
And do I drive her away? Must remember to put down that toilet seat before leaving the bathroom!
Finally, we get to the question of do we want to make this a marriage. That is choice after choice after choice. In fact, it's too many choices for me. Wedding colors? Elope! What to name the kids? Sorry honey, I've had a vasectomy. If you get pregnant, I'm calling it "Not mine" then calling a lawyer.
So for a short answer, it is No, yes, yes, yes....until you get to a no.
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 7, 2016 0:21:46 GMT -5
I'm coming up empty. I don't know what love is anymore. I love my children unconditionally, even though they started to annoy me when they turned into teenagers. I don't think I love my wife anymore. Would I cry at her funeral? Yes, but it would be because of my children, and perhaps flashbacks to when I truly did love her, what could have been, and what I missed out on. I'm not saying that I want anything to happen to her either. The resentment runs too deep. My parents? Not feeling the love there either. My other sibling? Um, nope. I don't love about 7 billion other people, don't hate them either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 18:11:31 GMT -5
Where is Kahlil Gibran when we need him?
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 18:15:03 GMT -5
I hope it is, as I would like to choose not to get mixed up with it again.
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