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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 3:14:25 GMT -5
So I had a girls night in on Friday with my bestie, and our friend who has recently left her hubby. We had a fabulous kid and bloke free evening (thank you unmatched) I had them laughing and crying with my stories. Apparently I should be on stage ha ha. The one who recently left her husband went through years of knowing it was wrong but sticking in there in the hope it would work out ok. Shes very dominant, he's the epitome of doormat. They were still having sex after 17 yrs. But she wasn't enjoying it. He was just there really. No oomph. Her exit strategy didn't exist. She did it spur of the moment without much forethought, although she had separated their finances 12 months previously. Her tipping point came on a Saturday morning. They should have been taking a family trip and she had a hairdresser appt early. She did the hair, went shopping for whatever they needed for the trip, and came home expecting them to be ready for off. She found him and the kids scattered around the house still in their pjs all playing on I pads computers or phones, with no effort made at all to prepare for the trip. She lost the plot. Told him it was over. Told him they were dysfunctional and she wasn't doing it any more. He kind of went err ok. No argument! They still did the trip for the kids, but then put the house on the market and she and the kids lived with her mum for a couple months until the house sold and both of them got new places. She is so much happier. Like almost a different woman! Unsure how how he's doing, he looks just the same when I see him on the street. I have never really spoken to him. She is very overpowering though. They could not have been a good match at all. I have known her a good few years through the kids and because she is also in dentistry (manager of a practice near me and has some mutual friends) and always kept my distance. So the conclusion they came to for me was.....drumroll please.... dump his ass yesterday. They can't comprehend what's stopping me. I tried to explain a bit about how my mind works and always has with regard to these fucking codependent tendencies of mine. And that I'm reading and listening to podcasts and finally after 40 years beginning to understand myself. I've got an appointment booked in a few weeks to get some counselling which is a big deal to me. I really feel it will help me. I get the intellectual side of why I'm like this, but the practicalities of changing myself is going to take some hard work. Work which I think I need to do in order to get out of this SM. But they just thought I was stalling. Possibly they were too hammered on the red wine to have more understanding there, but I'm not bothered. It's my decision and I'll take it when the time is right. I know it's coming. It's just the when and how. |
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 20, 2016 7:54:23 GMT -5
I agree with your approach to prepare yourself and do it on your terms, when you're ready.
Just curious, why should he look any different on the street after divorce? Do divorced people look different?
I'm unmoved by the story of the overpowering woman though. It seems that she had an unspoken expectation that her husband would have himself and the kids ready to leave for vacation, pack their luggage and the car, and perhaps tidy up the house too, while she was out pampering herself. She most likely knew well in advance what day they would be leaving for vacation and could have made the hair appointment for another day so they could share the responsibilities of preparing to leave for vacation. Her hair appointment was for no one but herself. He could have golfed 9 holes in the same amount of time and claimed it helped him unwind before vacation, but most people would immediately consider him selfish. In her warped sense of reality, the hair appointment was a requirement for the family vacation, and she knowingly scheduled it for that exact day and time so she could look and feel her best for her vacation, and relax while he took care of packing and such. I see this sort of thing all the time. My wife does the same thing every time we take a family vacation. Sorry, but I see her action as lazy, selfish and unfortunate. Forgive me if I have read too much of my own experiences into this story.
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Post by jim44444 on Nov 20, 2016 8:09:18 GMT -5
How often do we read or think to ourselves about waiting for that tipping point, that grand scenario, in order to make the right decision. And yet so often it is something trivial that propels action. Like your friend. The fact that the family was not ready is a nothing, a mere irritation but it was symbolic of the larger picture. What will be your tipping point or what will be mine? It is hard to say but cetainly it will be something that to an outside observer will appear petty. But to us and all others in an SM it will be the final straw.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 9:26:32 GMT -5
I agree with your approach to prepare yourself and do it on your terms, when you're ready. Just curious, why should he look any different on the street after divorce? Do divorced people look different? I'm unmoved by the story of the overpowering woman though. It seems that she had an unspoken expectation that her husband would have himself and the kids ready to leave for vacation, pack their luggage and the car, and perhaps tidy up the house too, while she was out pampering herself. She most likely knew well in advance what day they would be leaving for vacation and could have made the hair appointment for another day so they could share the responsibilities of preparing to leave for vacation. Her hair appointment was for no one but herself. He could have golfed 9 holes in the same amount of time and claimed it helped him unwind before vacation, but most people would immediately consider him selfish. In her warped sense of reality, the hair appointment was a requirement for the family vacation, and she knowingly scheduled it for that exact day and time so she could look and feel her best for her vacation, and relax while he took care of packing and such. I see this sort of thing all the time. My wife does the same thing every time we take a family vacation. Sorry, but I see her action as lazy, selfish and unfortunate. Forgive me if I have read too much of my own experiences into this story. You know what, she probably is that self centred. He probably had a lucky escape. But he would have never pulled the trigger. Wrt how he looked, he has the look of a startled mongoose every time I've seen him before. Was expecting a more dishevelled version I suppose lol. Still just looked startled though. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 9:29:46 GMT -5
How often do we read or think to ourselves about waiting for that tipping point, that grand scenario, in order to make the right decision. And yet so often it is something trivial that propels action. Like your friend. The fact that the family was not ready is a nothing, a mere irritation but it was symbolic of the larger picture. What will be your tipping point or what will be mine? It is hard to say but cetainly it will be something that to an outside observer will appear petty. But to us and all others in an SM it will be the final straw. That's true I reckon. Another friend of mine who dumped her partner was triggered because he wouldn't give her a cigarette. That really was symbolic of the bigger picture for her. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 20, 2016 9:33:23 GMT -5
Your friends story is full of holes.
"She is very dominate, he is the epitome of doormat". Translation: He's a giver, she is a taker.
"But she wasn't enjoying it (sex). He was just there really, no oomph." And how many ridiculous limits had she set on him over the years? Making everything her way only? Rejecting anything he wanted?
"Her exit strategy didn't exist, she did it on the spur of the moment without much forethought. She had separated their finances 12 months in advance." That's funny! That has got to be one of the best examples of a Manipulative Controller I have ever heard!Oh she had a strategy, the MONEY!!! Long before it could be divided or frozen. She most likely was in charge of the finances and he had no clue. To busy being a devote trusting doormat. "Happy wife, happy life."
"No effort made to prepare for the trip." If the trip had been something he wanted, planned, or was his idea, the kids would have been ready with his help. Instead, her trip, has to be done, HER way, packed, HER way, the kids have to follow HER rules, on HER timing, under HER expenses, with HER ordering him and everyone else around. A manipulative controller. But that is work, makes HER look bad in the eyes of the kids, all about HER. She went off to get HER hair done, expecting everyone else to be ready, so anything and everything can be wrong later with him to blame for it!
"He said "Okay" with no argument." Of course, she has trained him well. You don't argue with a manipulative controller, they will pull DARVO on you.
They went on the trip for the kids. Having a fun enjoying romantic time between the two of them as well, NOT!!!!
This whole story reminds me off the time when I spoke up at our small group bible study on marriage. My wife was not there I told the other few ladies of our group of all the years of effort to do things her way and it never being enough, along with all of her manipulative excuses. What was their advice? More acts of service!! I politely shot that down by giving them example after example of failed attempts, countered with avoidance and rejection. They threw their hands in the air and said, "don't know what to tell ya'!" Not a single word in my defense, or a single criticism off her words or actions.
Sorry to be stereo typical, but this is another example of women circling the wagons to protect one another. You dear, don't fit there mold of "desire to control, through manipulation".
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 20, 2016 9:54:55 GMT -5
Friend, you may be stalling. I'll share this with you, having a professional, a Councillor or therapist, tell you, "You have done far more than your share, you have gone above and beyond, while your boyfriend has done nothing but use you" can be priceless.
Reminds me of surfing. How many of us dads have taken our kids out to teach them how to pop and stand, how to catch a wave, paddle them out there, pick the wave, push the board, hope, cheer, do it again and again, and they get scared.
Then they go off with a professional, at surf school or have a friend their age show them, and "BAM" they get it, the inner strength comes out, the determination and the will overcomes the fear.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 9:57:28 GMT -5
And that's why I take her advice with a pinch of salt  x |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 9:59:25 GMT -5
None of us is perfect. None. We can slate these refusing mother effers as much as we want but we are to blame too. We let them.
What's reasonable and fair to one is not to another.
It's all about sharing similar values.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 20, 2016 10:49:59 GMT -5
None of us is perfect. None. We can slate these refusing mother effers as much as we want but we are to blame too. We let them. What's reasonable and fair to one is not to another. It's all about sharing similar values. Yes friend, we are to blame too. But to what extent? What percentage? I believe that gets easily overlooked by society. "Everybody has the right to be a sucker once". True. Does that justify the actions of the person who knowingly, willfully, goes against laws, morals, codes, virtues, respect, trust, and communication, for there own selfish en-devours? Not at all!. Time for some taking. Find your joy. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 20, 2016 11:25:45 GMT -5
None of us is perfect. None. We can slate these refusing mother effers as much as we want but we are to blame too. We let them. What's reasonable and fair to one is not to another. It's all about sharing similar values. Yes friend, we are to blame too. But to what extent? What percentage? I believe that gets easily overlooked by society. "Everybody has the right to be a sucker once". True. Does that justify the actions of the person who knowingly, willfully, goes against laws, morals, codes, virtues, respect, trust, and communication, for there own selfish en-devours? Not at all!. Time for some taking. Find your joy. I believe they don't even know they're doing it most of the time. They have learned their behaviours in the same way we have. It's just that theirs have been successful for so long ... why would they think it's a problem? That's where our faults lie. Ours tactics in life have left us high and fucking dry yet here we are still. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 20, 2016 16:46:46 GMT -5
Yes friend, we are to blame too. But to what extent? What percentage? I believe that gets easily overlooked by society. "Everybody has the right to be a sucker once". True. Does that justify the actions of the person who knowingly, willfully, goes against laws, morals, codes, virtues, respect, trust, and communication, for there own selfish en-devours? Not at all!. Time for some taking. Find your joy. I believe they don't even know they're doing it most of the time. They have learned their behaviours in the same way we have. It's just that theirs have been successful for so long ... why would they think it's a problem? That's where our faults lie. Ours tactics in life have left us high and fucking dry yet here we are still. Do you feel that your "tactics-morals, values, up-bringing" leave you high and dry with the rest of society? Or just with this taker? Think of it this way, they take, take, take, and give just enough back so they can continue to take, take take. You and me, we give, give, give, and hope to get a little back, if that doesn't work, somehow it is our fault so we give, give, give, even more. They may have learned their behavior, and it may serve them in every day life. Just like you and I learned and practice ours. In society you can give and expect nothing in return, But a relationship/marriage that will eventually crumble. The taker leads a life ,closed, hidden, secluded, false and manipulative. The giver, does fall pray to the manipulation, and builds a codependancy on it, however they could live a much happier existence with another giver who is willing to give in return. Two takers can't feed off each other for very long. |
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Post by baza on Nov 20, 2016 16:52:21 GMT -5
Your friends marriage sounds like a fuck up, so whether she was domineering or not (and whether he was a doormat or not) ain't terribly relevant. What IS relevant, is that she ended the fuck up, and thus gets my vote. Refuser / refused. It matters not.
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Turning now to you, and "stalling" Sister EO.
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You, are trying to sort your own shit out.
That's a good policy, and will build you a good base to operate from for whatever lies ahead of you.
Sorting out ones own shit can be done (with great difficulty) whilst still in your ILIASM shithole, but the environment makes your progress real slow, and is very likely to stall often as you deal with the spot fires the ILIASM shithole throws up.
It is far simpler to sort your own shit out if you are NOT in the sub-optimal environment of an ILIASM shithole. And quicker.
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As ever though, your choice.
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Post by thebaffledking on Nov 20, 2016 18:42:40 GMT -5
eternal, these lyrics (from RUSH) have spoken to me for a long time, like, since high school.......but now they mean more than ever:
Waiting for the winds of change
To sweep the clouds away
Waiting for the rainbow’s end
To cast its gold your way
Countless ways
You pass the days
Waiting for someone to call
And turn your world around
Looking for an answer to
The question you have found
Looking for
An open door
You don’t get something for nothing
You don’t get freedom for free
You won’t get wise
With the sleep still in your eyes
No matter what your dreams might be
What you own is your own kingdom
What you do is your own glory
What you love is your own power
What you live is your own story
In your head is the answer
Let it guide you along
Let your heart be the anchor
And the beat of your own song
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 21, 2016 0:44:45 GMT -5
I believe they don't even know they're doing it most of the time. They have learned their behaviours in the same way we have. It's just that theirs have been successful for so long ... why would they think it's a problem? That's where our faults lie. Ours tactics in life have left us high and fucking dry yet here we are still. Do you feel that your "tactics-morals, values, up-bringing" leave you high and dry with the rest of society? Or just with this taker? Think of it this way, they take, take, take, and give just enough back so they can continue to take, take take. You and me, we give, give, give, and hope to get a little back, if that doesn't work, somehow it is our fault so we give, give, give, even more. They may have learned their behavior, and it may serve them in every day life. Just like you and I learned and practice ours. In society you can give and expect nothing in return, But a relationship/marriage that will eventually crumble. The taker leads a life ,closed, hidden, secluded, false and manipulative. The giver, does fall pray to the manipulation, and builds a codependancy on it, however they could live a much happier existence with another giver who is willing to give in return. Two takers can't feed off each other for very long. It gets me in every aspect, relationships, friends, work. However, I find changing a job or cutting out a so called friend a bit easier than dealing with this relationship! |
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