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Post by northstarmom on Nov 18, 2021 3:56:31 GMT -5
"I had never heard of a Josephite marriage, a union inspired by the relationship between Joseph and the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus. And to this day, I am astonished that my parents undertook a similar path with the blessing of the Roman Catholic Church. While their arrangement did not comply with the strict definition of a Josephite relationship — for they entered marriage without the intention of a celibate union — such pacts remain an option for Catholics seeking a higher spiritual plane..... All this may seem like an artifact of the past, but a 2010 article in the publication Catholic Exchange explained that in addition to conventional marriage, there still exists “the type of marriage Joseph and Mary had and is sometimes referred to as a Josephite marriage.” Married celibates, according to the article, give up sex “because they hope to live a life that points the way to what will come in the next life, to something better and higher." www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/style/chaste-marriage-church.html
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 18, 2021 6:25:50 GMT -5
"I had never heard of a Josephite marriage, a union inspired by the relationship between Joseph and the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus...they entered marriage without the intention of a celibate union... ... the publication Catholic Exchange explained that in addition to conventional marriage, there still exists “the type of marriage Joseph and Mary had and is sometimes referred to as a Josephite marriage.” Married celibates, according to the article, give up sex “because they hope to live a life that points the way to what will come in the next life, to something better and higher." The actual Josephite marriage might not have been "Josephite". Interesting note about the dual meaning in original Greek and Jesus' identification of the Apostle, John to Mary. www.grunge.com/645730/the-untold-truth-of-jesus-siblings/Still, best of luck to The Catholics that all their members take Saul of Tarsus up on the offer to not have sex, serve God Better, and enjoy the same success as the Shakers. And now a film "Based on the Book"...
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Post by Handy on Nov 18, 2021 7:28:59 GMT -5
Married celibates, according to the article, give up sex “because they hope to live a life that points the way to what will come in the next life, to something better and higher."
How about if the next life is just dead and no next life? Like my favorite dog is just dead and has no after or second life. People that feel like they know something others do not know "INVENT shit" in my opinion to their self promotion of a power position.
Bottom line, when you die, you are dead. that is the end in my opinion. You are made from star dust and return to star dust elements, maybe to be part of someone else in the future or just dirt waiting for the universe to move your elements around.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 18, 2021 23:31:31 GMT -5
The idea of Mary remaining forever a virgin isn't supported by scripture so much as pre-Christian pagan tradition.
The apostle Paul wrote so much of the new testament that some skeptics refer to Christianity as Paulism. Paul had some pretty clear warnings for anyone unilaterally declaring a marriage to be celibate. 1 Cor 7:5.
I can't understand why two people would choose a celibate partnership, but if two people agree beforehand that they have no sexual interest in each other but want a lifelong commitment, that's not my problem to deal with.
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Post by Handy on Nov 18, 2021 23:47:09 GMT -5
Example of Catholic Church-sanctioned sexless marriage, OK knock yourself out and go for it. i didn't sing up for a Josephite relationship. Most thought sex would be multiple times a week.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 19, 2021 0:29:11 GMT -5
It's got to be by mutual consent. The idea, though, conjures memories in my mind of a golden age in which Saturday Night Live was actually funny.
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Post by csl on Nov 19, 2021 8:08:28 GMT -5
"I had never heard of a Josephite marriage, a union inspired by the relationship between Joseph and the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus...they entered marriage without the intention of a celibate union... ... the publication Catholic Exchange explained that in addition to conventional marriage, there still exists “the type of marriage Joseph and Mary had and is sometimes referred to as a Josephite marriage.” Married celibates, according to the article, give up sex “because they hope to live a life that points the way to what will come in the next life, to something better and higher." The actual Josephite marriage might not have been "Josephite". Interesting note about the dual meaning in original Greek and Jesus' identification of the Apostle, John to Mary. www.grunge.com/645730/the-untold-truth-of-jesus-siblings/Still, best of luck to The Catholics that all their members take Saul of Tarsus up on the offer to not have sex, serve God Better, and enjoy the same success as the Shakers. And now a film "Based on the Book"... That video is a hoot! Love it! I've always thought that there had to be some resentment when Joseph or Mary chewed them out and said, "Why can't you be more like Jesus?"
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Post by csl on Nov 19, 2021 8:10:29 GMT -5
Example of Catholic Church-sanctioned sexless marriage, OK knock yourself out and go for it. i didn't sing up for a Josephite relationship. Most thought sex would be multiple times a week. If a couple wants something like that and agrees to that, then okay, fine. But the unilateral imposition of such a marriage? Divorce court in the offing.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 19, 2021 8:48:28 GMT -5
i don't view this as either here nor there. It just seems to me it is one more attempt by the Catholic Church to bring people into the fold. The church sees marriage as a positive in the human dynamic and so it makes that institution available whenever possible. If there is in fact love in the relationship I don't see it as hurtful to the church, to the people involved or to society.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 19, 2021 10:29:09 GMT -5
I agree that conscenting adults can sexually do what they want. However, I see how the Catholic church warps people. It acts like celibacy is a road to heavenly rewards. Ugh. So glad I left that church decades ago but it took decades for me to wipe from my mind the church's distorted teachings about sex.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 19, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5
I have read a number of posts here from what I would consider as a good representation of the membership, in which those posting said the church damaged them. Most of them indicated it was the Catholic Churches stance and teachings about sex that brought about the hurt. I have known a number of priests and a couple nuns in my brief life and I have dated a half dozen or so Catholic girls. I saw no harsh or hardened attitude from the priests or nuns that had me believing hell and damnation were the reward waiting for those who had sex outside of marriage. As for the girls I dated, I was fortunate enough to enjoy their seemingly normal attitude toward sex. They all enjoyed it and indulged themselves at their pleasure. I didn't have sex with all of them, but for those who stayed the night, none of them came across as damaged from exposure to the Catholic faith. So it seems to me that as in almost every philosophy/ religion/ political body or whatever you might care to name, there are good practitioners and those who can do damage to their pupils. But in my brief exposure to things Catholic,( attending services with the girls I dated) I never heard anyone push an agenda of celibacy or damnation for those who did not remain chaste.
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Post by Handy on Nov 20, 2021 19:33:10 GMT -5
worksforme2, maybe some Catholics are better at ignoring church doctrine and more able to use confession to navigate minor sins in their life. There is also a strong anti-sex message in some Baptist churches that I was around. The one sided sex is bad before marriage and then it will some how be wonderful doesn't represent reality in many cases.
In my experiences, no one pushed celibacy but lust and sex for the unmarried was a big no no.
Normal sexual expression was for only married people. Single civilized people controlled their sexual urges.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 20, 2021 21:17:22 GMT -5
In my experiences, no one pushed celibacy but lust and sex for the unmarried was a big no no. Normal sexual expression was for only married people. Single civilized people controlled their sexual urges. I believe these statements are true for just about every organized religion or faith. Be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hindu, et al, all prohibit sexual activity prior to marriage. Maybe the Wiccans might be the exception, I don't know much about those folks.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 21, 2021 1:01:14 GMT -5
worksforme2: "I believe these statements are true for just about every organized religion or faith. Be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hindu, et al, all prohibit sexual activity prior to marriage. Maybe the Wiccans might be the exception, I don't know much about those folks. "
During my 14 years of being a Buddhist, I haven't heard anything in Buddhism that prohibits premarital sex or, for that matter, promotes marriage. In fact, the type of Buddhism I practice (Chan) does not believe in sin.
By contrast, when I was 14 and Catholic, my mom gave me a book about sex that some Catholic bishop had written for teens. The book said that sex belonged only in marriage, and it emphasized that women should be virgins at marriage because men liked to "conquer" things that other men had not conquered. That book left me believing that a woman's sexual desirability was over once she was no longer a virgin even if her husband was the only man she'd had sex with.
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Post by Handy on Nov 21, 2021 13:35:42 GMT -5
The virginity stories I have read about are so one sided. The worst is sacrificing a virgin to a volcano so the volcano doesn't erupt.
NSM During my 14 years of being a Buddhist, I haven't heard anything in Buddhism that prohibits premarital sex or, for that matter, promotes marriage. In fact, the type of Buddhism I practice (Chan) does not believe in sin. [/b]
That is refreshing, no sin.
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