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Post by h on May 16, 2019 12:34:18 GMT -5
More importantly, let's think about the logic of what she is saying. If she's advocating for a sex strike to prevent unwanted pregnancies, isn't that exactly what the conservative religious right wanted in the first place?😂 She's literally making the case for abstinence which would result in fewer abortions. Alyssa Milano just became a pro-lifer!🤣
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firefollower
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Post by firefollower on May 16, 2019 12:39:57 GMT -5
More importantly, let's think about the logic of what she is saying. If she's advocating for a sex strike to prevent unwanted pregnancies, isn't that exactly what the conservative religious right wanted in the first place?😂 She's literally making the case for abstinence which would result in fewer abortions. Alyssa Milano just became a pro-lifer!🤣 Good insight h...I also think that she should be supporting birth control to prevent becoming pregnant in the first place. She has relegated "sex" to a power play, a concession bestowed on behalf of women when the men do what they want.
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Post by choosinghappy on May 16, 2019 21:52:18 GMT -5
More importantly, let's think about the logic of what she is saying. If she's advocating for a sex strike to prevent unwanted pregnancies, isn't that exactly what the conservative religious right wanted in the first place?😂 She's literally making the case for abstinence which would result in fewer abortions. Alyssa Milano just became a pro-lifer!🤣 Haha the irony is entertaining. But yes, I see Alyssa’s not-well-thought-out sex strike as a stand against those who say “well if you don’t want a baby then keep your legs closed”. Here are the (astoundingly high) rates at which contraception fails. If women are being responsible but the sex still results in a pregnancy and then abortion is banned, what other options does one have except abstinence? It’s a frightening thought.
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Post by h on May 16, 2019 22:05:42 GMT -5
More importantly, let's think about the logic of what she is saying. If she's advocating for a sex strike to prevent unwanted pregnancies, isn't that exactly what the conservative religious right wanted in the first place?😂 She's literally making the case for abstinence which would result in fewer abortions. Alyssa Milano just became a pro-lifer!🤣 Haha the irony is entertaining. But yes, I see Alyssa’s not-well-thought-out sex strike as a stand against those who say “well if you don’t want a baby then keep your legs closed”. Here are the (astoundingly high) rates at which contraception fails. If women are being responsible but the sex still results in a pregnancy and then abortion is banned, what other options does one have except abstinence? It’s a frightening thought. Personally, I'm not in favor of these restrictive laws. I'm against abortion, but just because I don't agree with something, doesn't mean I want the government involved in it. I'm a nonviolent person and every time a law is made to prohibit (or mandate) anything, it is enforced by threats of violence or actual violence against people who are usually nonviolent to begin with.
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Post by saarinista on May 17, 2019 1:49:30 GMT -5
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Post by baza on May 17, 2019 3:28:19 GMT -5
I may come to regret this post, but anyway .... Up until I was 28 I had a (not very thought out) pro abortion viewpoint.
Then, my eldest son was born with a congenital (ie born with it) physical condition. My attitude remained pro abortion. He was 6 when my missus fell pregnant again - and there was a 25% chance this condition could affect the baby. Now they could test for this condition at 14 weeks gestation. Of course by then my eldest had started school and it was obvious that his birth defect was something he had coped with quite well. So there was a BIG question looming. If we had the test and if it turned out the fetus was carrying the same defect, then what the fuck were we going to do ?
There's a little moral dilemma you might like to consider, and you might like to speculate on that theoretically.
Unfortunately at the time, for me and my missus there was no "theory" about it. We had to make a call. And we were going to have to live with the consequences of that call. You might say there was a bit of pressure on us. We debated this issue at length, this way, that way from every angle imagineable.
My position on abortion began to shift a bit. I went from an entirely pro abortion position to a more lukewarm position on it during this debate. This was heavily influenced by the progress my physically disabled eldest was getting on with his life.
Eventually I put this proposition to my missus .... "If you want to take this baby to term, then I am with you all the way. If you don't and you want to abort, I am on board with that too, but at the same time I would want you to get your tubes tied so we can never be in this position of choosing such an option again" Her position was that if the tests showed the condition in the fetus then a termination was her position.
Think on that.
As you might imagine, the lead up to the amniocentesis test was pressure like you would not believe.
And it came back clear. So we had no choice to make then. But I still speculate to this day what might have happened had the tests confirmed the condition was present. For me it would have been no "cut and dried" matter that we would have aborted. That's how much my pro abortion position had shifted.
I think that a theoretical view of "abort if you feel like it" goes out the window if you are in such a real life position. I'd put it to you that this would be one of the hardest choices you could make.
My position on abortion has moved from pro abortion to "pro choice".
My missus and I made our choice, another couple in the same situation might have chosen differently (and I'd not question their right to do so)
I do NOT see any role for "The State" in this matter. Nor do I see any role for the Lobby Groups who want to impose their version of the truth on others either.
People confronting this awful choice deserve your empathy and your support for the invidious choice they are confronted with.
And if you can't support what they end up choosing then I'd suggest you keep your opinion to yourself.
Like I said at the get go, I may well regret this post, but this issue is a highly complex and emotive one, to which there is no "right" answer - though some extreme groups reckon that they have the "right" answer. They may well have the "right" answer for them, but it ain't necessarily the "right" answer for you, or me.
PS - The pregnancy came about in the middle of an ILIASM long dry spell. During which my missus had gone off birth control without sharing that fact with me. A one off drunken root set the wheels in motion.
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Post by hopingforachange on May 17, 2019 6:10:54 GMT -5
baza I'm offering my support for what you went thru and for sharing your history. Thank you.
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firefollower
Full Member
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Post by firefollower on May 17, 2019 7:18:33 GMT -5
Yes baza...no judgement hear...I agree with your position. My W's brother and his wife got pregnant (healthy pregnancy from what they could determine) right after they started dating...they chose to have an abortion. Fast forward 2 years and they are now married and she becomes pregnant...no amnio, genetic counseling...they are excited to start their family...the baby is born with severe mental retardation with no hope of ever being able to live a independent life and therefore their lives will never be the same. After 1 and half years they are still in shock...I am not sure their marriage will survive. Wondering if they had known would they have aborted?
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Post by worksforme2 on May 17, 2019 8:13:16 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this with us baz. Like you I have undergone a shift from a decidedly pro abortion position to pro life. This is not to say I would seek to deny someone the right to terminate a pregnancy upon learning of severe abnormalities in the fetus or danger to the woman's life. I can't speak to other countries but here in the US it seems a sizable percentage, perhaps the majority, of abortions are implemented as birth control, largely due to carelessness on the part of the people making the decision. I myself have been a party to 2. Both were in my youth when I foolishly thought the responsibility for birth control resided with the woman. And both pregnancies were the result of my partners going off their birth control and saying nothing about it. Even my X at age 40 was unprotected the 1st time we had sex. Again dummy that I was it didn't occur to me a 43yr. old woman would take this sort of risk. It was years later when she told me she was relieved when she had her period. She could just as easily have been pregnant by someone she had known only a few weeks. Along with so many other things it seems that here in the US we are in a period where extreme positions are the norm. Abortion is just one. On one end is the attempt at strict enforcement or limitations on time when abortions can be performed. On the other extreme we now have states where infanticide is an acceptable end to an unwanted birth. I am in the boat with h. Whether I am for or against something doesn't mean I want the government involved.
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Post by northstarmom on May 17, 2019 8:20:06 GMT -5
“On the other extreme we now have states where infanticide is an acceptable end to an unwanted birth. ”
This is not true at all if you are referring to the U.S. even though some politicians and others claim it is. Killing a child after it has been born is always considered homicide. Please google legitimate information sites to learn correct information.
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Post by workingonit on May 17, 2019 9:34:12 GMT -5
“On the other extreme we now have states where infanticide is an acceptable end to an unwanted birth. ” This is not true at all if you are referring to the U.S. even though some politicians and others claim it is. Killing a child after it has been born is always considered homicide. Please google legitimate information sites to learn correct information. This. There is absolutely no truth in this.
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Post by h on May 17, 2019 9:35:07 GMT -5
“On the other extreme we now have states where infanticide is an acceptable end to an unwanted birth. ” This is not true at all if you are referring to the U.S. even though some politicians and others claim it is. Killing a child after it has been born is always considered homicide. Please google legitimate information sites to learn correct information. Actually they have been moving in that very direction recently. The Governor of Virginia was on record during a radio interview seriously talking about "post-birth abortions" and it has also been discussed here in NY. Just because it's not legal yet, doesn't mean it can't change tomorrow. Laws change when people start normalizing what was once considered unthinkable.
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Post by workingonit on May 17, 2019 9:38:22 GMT -5
I want to acknowledge this discussion but I have really strong pro choice opinions on this highly controversial issue and I will respectfully bow out of participating. I would hate to see this forum get into this debate!
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Post by h on May 17, 2019 9:54:02 GMT -5
I want to acknowledge this discussion but I have really strong pro choice opinions on this highly controversial issue and I will respectfully bow out of participating. I would hate to see this forum get into this debate! Absolutely excellent idea. Maybe I should do the same. I'm out.
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Post by saarinista on May 17, 2019 10:03:26 GMT -5
“On the other extreme we now have states where infanticide is an acceptable end to an unwanted birth. ” This is not true at all if you are referring to the U.S. even though some politicians and others claim it is. Killing a child after it has been born is always considered homicide. Please google legitimate information sites to learn correct information. Actually they have been moving in that very direction recently. The Governor of Virginia was on record during a radio interview seriously talking about "post-birth abortions" and it has also been discussed here in NY. Just because it's not legal yet, doesn't mean it can't change tomorrow. Laws change when people start normalizing what was once considered unthinkable. just because something has been discussed does not mean the p@rticipanta have shared correct information. The governor of VA-yikes. he has a number of unfortunate rhetorical gaffes to his credit. Although he's an MD,that doesn't mean he knows everything medical or correctly shares information in interviews.
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