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Post by jim44444 on Mar 20, 2018 18:37:00 GMT -5
“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.” Heraclitus, the Greek philosopher, not our friend here. We can never get back to what we had no matter how appealing it may seem. We can only move forward to something better or good enough. But to get to some new and improved 'normal' requires a plan not some pie in the sky "Things will get back to normal... I know our issues are not easy and we need to keep working through them but we will get through them and get back to normal." choosinghappy. Too often it seems the only workable plan is filing for divorce. The low libido partner has no reason or desire to change. If they did then they would present and execute a SMART plan to achieve the change.
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Post by baza on Mar 20, 2018 19:32:09 GMT -5
Back on the old EP ILIASM group in the 2009 to app 2012 period was a regular contributor AnarChristian. AKA RonMcDong and another couple of handles. Possibly darktippedrose and mebbe Dan recall him ?? His suggestion on just about every newbie post was the same 8 words - "Your spouse doesn't love you, get a divorce" He was no fool either, in fact when communicating via pm with him he was an outrageously funny and smart bloke. His view was very much a "stripped back to the bare bones" perspective... they are not engaging you sexually, ergo they do not love you, ergo you are best to end it. Yet - in a magic wand scenario - where everyone followed the suggestion of AnarChristian - I think he would have had it *right* 9 times out of 10. But instead of writng 5 paragraphs to flesh it out a bit, apply a bit of sugarcoating, and take the edge off it, he pruned it back to 8 words. "Your spouse doesn't love you, get a divorce".
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Post by saarinista on Mar 21, 2018 2:48:02 GMT -5
Back on the old EP ILIASM group in the 2009 to app 2012 period was a regular contributor AnarChristian. AKA RonMcDong and another couple of handles. Possibly darktippedrose and mebbe Dan recall him ?? His suggestion on just about every newbie post was the same 8 words - "Your spouse doesn't love you, get a divorce" He was no fool either, in fact when communicating via pm with him he was an outrageously funny and smart bloke. His view was very much a "stripped back to the bare bones" perspective... they are not engaging you sexually, ergo they do not love you, ergo you are best to end it. Yet - in a magic wand scenario - where everyone followed the suggestion of AnarChristian - I think he would have had it *right* 9 times out of 10. But instead of writng 5 paragraphs to flesh it out a bit, apply a bit of sugarcoating, and take the edge off it, he pruned it back to 8 words. "Your spouse doesn't love you, get a divorce". Could a mate dubbed "RonMcDong" ever be wrong? LOL Well, maybe. I would change two words in his prescription, to this: "Your spouse won't fuck you; get a divorce." I will always love my husband. He's a decent guy, we've lived two decades of our lives together and he has many good qualities. But if the sex is not there, if the chemistry is not there and maybe never was, if we've pussyfooted around this issue for years yet found no resolution, how can we ever have an authentic marriage? I guess some people don't care about authenticity, but I do. Barring some unforseen 360, I can't see any other honest alternatives than following Mr. McDong's pithy advice to leave and search once again for true marital love-which includes SEX!
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Post by darktippedrose on Mar 21, 2018 12:23:57 GMT -5
Oh boy, some of the guys from the old EP forum were hilarious! OMG! Some of the men I think were correct, but they were so blunt that no one took them seriously.
One guy told me I needed to have sex or I'll end up having sex, without a choice because its been so long. Instead, I feel like this picture of an old woman saying "It's been 86 years ........" lol
Not everyone is ready to make action today.
From what I've seen most sm end up in death or divorce. Even if they don't divorce, they never actually get repaired.
I've seen some who are refused only to realise that they were actually the refuser. I have seen some that realised it was a big miscommunication. Among other things. But I agree. Some of my fav SM sayings:
Your pain is their comfort zone.
They want the benefits of marriage without being married, to you.
there's others but thats all i can think of off the top of my head.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 15:56:15 GMT -5
This author's story is not unlike how I felt when I came to the forum although I didn't feel quite so far from some perfect fabled past. The last of the kids was successfully launched off to college and we were both looking forward to our empty nest phase. We made plans, talked, laughed took up some new activities. We get along well and we do love each other. The issue would be that she is averse to intimacy (kiss=morning peck as I leave for work) so I had naively thought that a renewed sex life might be in the mix. It wasn't. That was the end of my own why chasing and the end of my "talking about it". Stay/Cheat/Leave? I chose to stay but it was important for me to choose it and important for me to leave behind any resentment. I am secure enough in my own skin that I no longer take it the way I used to. Am I being loved the way that I want to? No. Am I able to live with it now? Yes.
I judge no one else's choice. If leaving is what you need then kudos but some of us have stayed and coped.
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Post by lwoetin on Mar 21, 2018 21:58:03 GMT -5
Sounds like a marriage to me with it's ups and downs. Hopefully they find the light switch and find their way back again. I've older siblings who've been married longer than me. They go through their hurdles like I do. And they've stayed because they are happy. I like their spouses. My younger siblings are content in their marriages too. There are fairy tales of living happily ever after finding prince/princess, and then there is reality of seeking happiness in life with what you have one day at a time. (But I really don't want to end up in sm forever, please no. Sex is too fun to give up.)
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Post by WindSister on Mar 22, 2018 5:53:12 GMT -5
Sounds like a marriage to me with it's ups and downs. Hopefully they find the light switch and find their way back again. I've older siblings who've been married longer than me. They go through their hurdles like I do. And they've stayed because they are happy. I like their spouses. My younger siblings are content in their marriages too. There are fairy tales of living happily ever after finding prince/princess, and then there is reality of seeking happiness in life with what you have one day at a time. (But I really don't want to end up in sm forever, please no. Sex is too fun to give up.) Not picking on you, LW, but that term, fairy tale, I think, needs to be examined. A marriage, union, partnership, relationship with sex is possible. It's not some impossible fairy tale unless someone thinks it is. I guess what I am trying to say is being in a happy marriage isn't a "fairy tale" removed from reality. But if a person thinks it is, yes, they will just continually work on fixing their attitude to adapt to the reality they are willing to settle for. When I got out of my sexless marriage I knew I wanted a real relationship someday... a true partnership, to include sex, but also respect, appreciation, and sharing of joys in life. When both people are doing that, they are checked in to life and the relationship and sex is naturally a part of that. It's really NOT a fairy tale. It takes "work" to maintain, but it's a good kind of work because you actually get paid, so to speak, for your effort when the other partner is also doing the work. It is not one person doing all the work and all the morphing, changing, settling. It's not a fairy tale. It's a shared life. With someone who respects and appreciates you enough not to reject you. For starters. From there, everything is better about the relationship. It is from THIS point that I work on being happy with what I got...a man who respects and appreciates me and works hard for our happy life with me. There could always be "someone better", it's true, so, yes, at some point one has to be happy with life as it is and honor commitments, but hopefully the bar isn't set so low that a functional, healthy relationship is simply deemed a fairy tale. Again, not picking on you, just that term because I see many use it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 6:05:12 GMT -5
When I got out of my sexless marriage I knew I wanted a real relationship someday... a true partnership, to include sex, but also respect, appreciation, and sharing of joys in life. When both people are doing that, they are checked in to life and the relationship and sex is naturally a part of that. It's really NOT a fairy tale. It takes "work" to maintain, but it's a good kind of work because you actually get paid, so to speak, for your effort when the other partner is also doing the work. It is not one person doing all the work and all the morphing, changing, settling. It's not a fairy tale. It's a shared life. With someone who respects and appreciates you enough not to reject you. For starters. You always bring the hope to the party @windsister. Thank you. Yes, if 2 people want it and are willing to put in the discipline and hard work, the rewards can be great. I’m glad you found it! I’ll be looking for my king one day too. I know he’s out there.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 22, 2018 6:28:38 GMT -5
It's just, I've been there. I tried fixing my attitude, daily gratitude, snd mindfulness in my SM. While these were great practices to learn, there's nothing to be grateful for in a marriage where my now ex was playing video games and/or jerking off to porn while I'm trying to enjoy a campfire in the backyard by myself but crying my eyes out because I feel so alone as I dreamt of making love to a damn cucumber if I could. I finally decided I cpuld raise that bar a bit higher....
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Post by lwoetin on Mar 23, 2018 0:30:30 GMT -5
Sounds like a marriage to me with it's ups and downs. Hopefully they find the light switch and find their way back again. I've older siblings who've been married longer than me. They go through their hurdles like I do. And they've stayed because they are happy. I like their spouses. My younger siblings are content in their marriages too. There are fairy tales of living happily ever after finding prince/princess, and then there is reality of seeking happiness in life with what you have one day at a time. (But I really don't want to end up in sm forever, please no. Sex is too fun to give up.) Not picking on you, LW, but that term, fairy tale, I think, needs to be examined. A marriage, union, partnership, relationship with sex is possible. It's not some impossible fairy tale unless someone thinks it is. I guess what I am trying to say is being in a happy marriage isn't a "fairy tale" removed from reality. But if a person thinks it is, yes, they will just continually work on fixing their attitude to adapt to the reality they are willing to settle for. When I got out of my sexless marriage I knew I wanted a real relationship someday... a true partnership, to include sex, but also respect, appreciation, and sharing of joys in life. When both people are doing that, they are checked in to life and the relationship and sex is naturally a part of that. It's really NOT a fairy tale. It takes "work" to maintain, but it's a good kind of work because you actually get paid, so to speak, for your effort when the other partner is also doing the work. It is not one person doing all the work and all the morphing, changing, settling. It's not a fairy tale. It's a shared life. With someone who respects and appreciates you enough not to reject you. For starters. From there, everything is better about the relationship. It is from THIS point that I work on being happy with what I got...a man who respects and appreciates me and works hard for our happy life with me. There could always be "someone better", it's true, so, yes, at some point one has to be happy with life as it is and honor commitments, but hopefully the bar isn't set so low that a functional, healthy relationship is simply deemed a fairy tale. Again, not picking on you, just that term because I see many use it. I'm fine if you pick on me, wind rider. It means we have different views and can learn from one another. The fairy tale I'm referring to is the expectation that married couples will agree on most things and on most of the time. There will be struggles and arguments and compromises. Leaving the light on will not take those differences away. It is the process of understanding why and finding a solution that strengthens the marriage. Or not finding one and that ends a marriage. It's still possible to be happy, angry, confused and sad in a happy marriage as long as you freely choose to stay. .... I think. The survival rate of marriages is around 50%, so one can see it as a glass half empty or half full. I like my chances of finding solutions in my marriage.
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Post by jim44444 on Mar 23, 2018 5:53:02 GMT -5
“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.” Heraclitus, the Greek philosopher, not our friend here. We can never get back to what we had no matter how appealing it may seem. We can only move forward to something better or good enough. But to get to some new and improved 'normal' requires a plan not some pie in the sky "Things will get back to normal... I know our issues are not easy and we need to keep working through them but we will get through them and get back to normal." choosinghappy. Too often it seems the only workable plan is filing for divorce. The low libido partner has no reason or desire to change. If they did then they would present and execute a SMART plan to achieve the change. “I'm gonna find me a river, one that's cold as ice And when I find me that river, Lord I'm gonna pay the price, oh Lord I'm goin' down in it three times, but Lord I'm only comin' up twice” -Hank Williams "One dying and a burying One dying and a burying Some crying, six carrying me I wanna be free" Roger Miller - ONE DYING AND A BURYING
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 23, 2018 6:08:17 GMT -5
“The survival rate of marriages is around 50%, so one can see it as a glass half empty or half full. I like my chances of finding solutions in my marriage.“
Probably virtually all marriages that end are highly dysfunctional and painful. So are a significant portion of marriages that continue. In my own family at least half of the marriages that lasted til death were dreadful to the point of being in name only. None of my grandparents’ children divorced. My parents hated each other but remained married because Dad didn’t want to lose the house. mom didn’t want the embarrassment of a divorce. My uncles separated from their wives but didn’t divorce because they wanted an excuse not to marry longtime girlfriends. Lots of marriages are miserable. Having grown up amidst one, I’m glad I stopped why chasing and set myself free.
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Post by lwoetin on Mar 24, 2018 1:48:50 GMT -5
“The survival rate of marriages is around 50%, so one can see it as a glass half empty or half full. I like my chances of finding solutions in my marriage.“ Probably virtually all marriages that end are highly dysfunctional and painful. So are a significant portion of marriages that continue. In my own family at least half of the marriages that lasted til death were dreadful to the point of being in name only. None of my grandparents’ children divorced. My parents hated each other but remained married because Dad didn’t want to lose the house. mom didn’t want the embarrassment of a divorce. My uncles separated from their wives but didn’t divorce because they wanted an excuse not to marry longtime girlfriends. Lots of marriages are miserable. Having grown up amidst one, I’m glad I stopped why chasing and set myself free. You made a wise choice. I am more wary of those close to me and try to understand why they stay married. I think it's their love for each other. Some couples are intimate while others aren't. On the outside people could think my parents don't love each other. But my mom is extremely faithful to my dad. She taught us to be faithful and grateful in marriage. She lived under tough circumstances and intimacy was unnecessary for her. I think she's content over all staying married though. My dad is easy going and took a lot of crap but he loved her. It was part of her package and he chooses to stay until death. We are extremely grateful for the stability our parents provided while we grew up.
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Post by baza on Mar 24, 2018 2:24:29 GMT -5
I think there's a lot in what you say Brother lwoetin . Some peoples metric is that staying married is a worthwhile aim in and of itself. My recollection is that this was the case in my parents deal, but the atmosphere in the dynamic had a bit more going for it than that. They set me a great example in being financially responsible and stuff like that which was very valuable. They mightn't have been so hot at demonstrating how to have a great relationship but to be fair they didn't set a rotten example either. More like a non-example in that regard. They made it to 40 years before my Dad cashed in his chips, my Mother then had another 30 years as a widow. An unattached widow to the best of my knowledge. But I think they were both pretty satisfied with holding their deal together for 4 decades, raising 3 reasonably successful kids and having 7 grandkids and heaps of great grandchildren. For them, that was a succesful metric - and I'm not knocking it either.
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Post by jim44444 on Mar 24, 2018 20:23:36 GMT -5
I think there's a lot in what you say Brother lwoetin . Some peoples metric is that staying married is a worthwhile aim in and of itself. This brings to mind a thread on EP that you and I posted in. I was by a woman whose name is lost to me about why she would not divorce. Her bottom line was that her marriage had value in spite of the SM. I remember her using the term "had value" and it has stuck with me since then. It speaks of a balance in the relationship of the pros and cons where the pros outweigh the cons. A relationship could be full of great sex and still be a shit hole that needs to disolve if the cons outweigh the pros.
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