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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 23, 2018 19:08:05 GMT -5
Well, she gave you permission, bertie1471 . Mine never did. But I will echo bballgirl and say be discreet. I will also add another piece of advise - be careful. You mentioned prostitutes. There are a lot of arguments good and bad for the professionals. But outside of health and legal concerns, here is my biggest problem with them: you are not a lover, but a customer. Some are very good at what they do. Some are wonderful actresses. And most are discreet. But it is not the same as a woman who finds you attractive for who you are. I need that acknowledgement even more than I need an orgasm. For now though it does sounds like a very good option to me!
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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 23, 2018 19:10:06 GMT -5
I can imagine that there are people on this site who have no intention of leaving their partners, because, in essence, they have computed that the benefits of leaving do not exceed the benefits of staying, even though the marriage is sexless. In that scenario, if the partner was as bertie1471 describes, practical, non-jealous, also saw the benefits of the marriage, wanted to stay, but was prepared to acknowledge to the partner that he could outsource as long as he was discreet about it AND was careful to pick partners who wanted NSA/FWB-type arrangements- then I really cannot see anything wrong with that. It seems perfectly fair to me. Should have a low probability of blowing up and keeps everyone happy. As has been amply described elsewhere, though, this description of the sexless partner does *not* seem to fit with the descriptions of refusing partners on this site. That's the problem, I think. James you're saying that my wife actually giving permission is not something that fits the normal description? hmmmm. Yes I have no intention of leaving my wife. Young kid etc. And I do actually love her - just not her sex drive.
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Post by brian on Jan 23, 2018 19:37:08 GMT -5
I can imagine that there are people on this site who have no intention of leaving their partners, because, in essence, they have computed that the benefits of leaving do not exceed the benefits of staying, even though the marriage is sexless. In that scenario, if the partner was as bertie1471 describes, practical, non-jealous, also saw the benefits of the marriage, wanted to stay, but was prepared to acknowledge to the partner that he could outsource as long as he was discreet about it AND was careful to pick partners who wanted NSA/FWB-type arrangements- then I really cannot see anything wrong with that. It seems perfectly fair to me. Should have a low probability of blowing up and keeps everyone happy. As has been amply described elsewhere, though, this description of the sexless partner does *not* seem to fit with the descriptions of refusing partners on this site. That's the problem, I think. James you're saying that my wife actually giving permission is not something that fits the normal description? hmmmm. Yes I have no intention of leaving my wife. Young kid etc. And I do actually love her - just not her sex drive. I had no intention of leaving my roomie when I joined the precursor to this site. Now I will readily outsource and am preparing my exit plan. This is not how I want to live the rest of my life.
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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 24, 2018 19:59:40 GMT -5
Well got into discussion with wife and she pretty much agreed to me outsourcing. Basically, as long as I was discrete. Seemed fair enough.
Still a bit undecided or should I be happy that I've got the golden ticket. I'm guessing most refusers dont do this sort of thing?
BTW - she also said she'd go for it on forthcoming weekend away. Good news. But she still has a problem with my weight.
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Post by baza on Jan 24, 2018 20:26:35 GMT -5
Anecdotally in here, the refuser usually *agrees* to such an arrangement because they think the risk of you taking it up is pretty low. That there is not really much chance of it happening. Sort of like her saying that - "sure, you can root Shania Twain (insert your own choice here) if you like bertie" If confronted with the actuality of you cheating, the actuality of their reaction can be very VERY different.
Anyway, you are potentially about to embark on a highly adventurous and high stakes venture here.
It would be advisable to get the same information you'd need if you were planning a divorce so you know just how high the stakes could get in this game.
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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 24, 2018 20:34:03 GMT -5
Anecdotally in here, the refuser usually *agrees* to such an arrangement because they think the risk of you taking it up is pretty low. That there is not really much chance of it happening. Sort of like her saying that - "sure, you can root Shania Twain (insert your own choice here) if you like bertie" If confronted with the actuality of you cheating, the actuality of their reaction can be very VERY different. Anyway, you are potentially about to embark on a highly adventurous and high stakes venture here. It would be advisable to get the same information you'd need if you were planning a divorce so you know just how high the stakes could get in this game. I hear you Baza.... and understand I think the risk.
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Post by james on Jan 25, 2018 4:05:58 GMT -5
“AND was careful to pick partners who wanted NSA/FWB-type arrangements- then I really cannot see anything wrong with that.” How do you know your partner really wants just a fwb? The refused are not good at picking partners who match their needs. People’s motivations and emotions also change. One of my friends was in a fwb with a married man. He didn’t know she loved him. They had different social circles but somehow ended up at the same event. My friend got drunk and verbally attacked his wife in an ugly scene.,.. Yes, northstarmom, you are right, there is substantial risk that it could go wrong. I am still interested in this question of oursourcing, though, and whether it could *ever* be an acceptable or even the right solution. What about this scenario? A couple have been married for many years, they love eachother and have a fulfilling sex life. Then W is diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and things go downhill. She can't use her legs properly, she gets continence problems and puts on a ton of weight. She is just no interested in sex anymore. Her husband promises that he will stay with her and look after her through her illness, and asks nothing in return. She knows that the now sexless marriage is very difficult for him and she explicitly tells him that she is happy for him to oursource, just to be discreet about it- she doesn't want to know details, but she knows it will go on. He finds a small ad that says: "Unhappily married woman seeks NSA liasion, daytime only, must be discreet." He calls her up. He explains the rules to her- NSA liaison, will not leave his wife, if she develops stronger feelings for him then he will have to end it. If the thing that you describe above (AP gets drunk and harangues wife) happens despite all these safeguards, then really, I don't see it as any different from a marriage in which one individual 'breaks the rules' by having an affair. In the scenario, the husband's affair partner 'breaks the rules' by encroaching on married territory and goes against the agreement. If you are saying that in the scenario described above, the husband shouldn't outsource because it might go wrong, then you might as well say that no-one should ever get married because that might go wrong. What I am trying to get at is whether outsourcing could ever be condoned in the way that marriage is condoned. Basically, I don't see anything wrong with the couple's arrangement and I would challenge anyone to say to me that it is actually any more prone to going wrong, or morally questionable, than a marriage is. Thoughts?
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Post by baza on Jan 25, 2018 4:55:48 GMT -5
There are two things in life. There are acts of God - or whichever deity (if any) that you ascribe to - that are foisted upon us. Then there is choice, and the consequences thereof. No-one, that is NO-ONE, gets a pass on either of the above. To cut to the chase, in the above scenario.... An act of god delivers MS to the person. The disenfranchised spouse chooses to cheat. That is a perfectly valid choice, and assorted consequences will flow from it which the chooser will wear. Choices do NOT have to be "condoned" as you put it Brother james , or justified. They have to owned by the chooser and they have to be lived. And the consequences of the choice have to be accepted. If you want to argue the toss about the morality, or rightness/wrongness about what someone may choose, knock yourself out in that pursuit. You, me, everyone, make our choices and then we wear the consequences. It is completely egalitarian. No-one gets a pass. No-one. About the best we - less than perfect humans - can do, is to make fully informed choices (which others may agree with or not, as they wish) And, as far as is practicable let other people make their own fully informed choices (which you may agree with or not, as you wish) You will wear the consequences of your choices. Other people will wear the consequences of their choices. That's as it should be.
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Post by brian on Jan 25, 2018 6:40:22 GMT -5
I have a friend who is quite happy that her husband has a girlfriend so that she no longer has to perform her "wifely duties". It's open and out there, and I have met the girlfriend -- although, to be 100% honest, I met her prior to my knowing the relationship and I thought she was their daughter... ooops!
And no, I have never seen all 3 of them at the same place, which makes sense. Nor have I ever seen the two ladies together.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 25, 2018 7:24:25 GMT -5
“If you are saying that in the scenario described above, the husband shouldn't outsource because it might go wrong, then you might as well say that no-one should ever get married because that might go wrong.”
Nope. I’m saying that you can’t predict what will happen. It’s a mistake to assume that you will pick the right person and everything will proceed as you imagine See a lawyer as Baz suggests. Think about how your life could be impacted if you are caught. Don’t just assume you won’t fall in love, your kids will never know, your affair partner never will want more, etc. think about whether you can deal with such consequences. Be prepared in case things go wrong. Then do what you want.
Frankly, there are a lot of people who would have benefitted by putting more thought into their marital choices and into whether to have kids. Many in this group have rose colored glasses that impair their decision making.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 25, 2018 7:25:48 GMT -5
I can imagine that there are people on this site who have no intention of leaving their partners, because, in essence, they have computed that the benefits of leaving do not exceed the benefits of staying, even though the marriage is sexless. In that scenario, if the partner was as bertie1471 describes, practical, non-jealous, also saw the benefits of the marriage, wanted to stay, but was prepared to acknowledge to the partner that he could outsource as long as he was discreet about it AND was careful to pick partners who wanted NSA/FWB-type arrangements- then I really cannot see anything wrong with that. It seems perfectly fair to me. Should have a low probability of blowing up and keeps everyone happy. As has been amply described elsewhere, though, this description of the sexless partner does *not* seem to fit with the descriptions of refusing partners on this site. That's the problem, I think. Until the partner changes her mind and discovers she IS jealous after all.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 25, 2018 7:29:14 GMT -5
Or the affair partner decides the want more and does what they can to blow up your marriage.
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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 25, 2018 8:26:10 GMT -5
to clarify -we talked about paid for sex not affair. So no emotional involvement here.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 25, 2018 9:20:28 GMT -5
Men have been known to fall in love with hookers. Think of politicians caught up in scandals with sex workers.
A good sex worker is also an excellent listener something many here don’t get from their spouses. I know a young woman who is a private dancer. She says some me just want to watch her and talk to her. You may scoff but loneliness is part of many sm.
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Post by bertie1471 on Jan 31, 2018 11:06:36 GMT -5
Must admit after the initial offer I have sort of gone off the idea. Dunno why to be honest - maybe I just feel guilty even though she says its ok. I shouldnt probably. Bit concerned that she agreed so easily mind - half wanted her to be a little unkeen at least! Very pragmatic is my mrs though.... :-(
Weekend away soon and shes up for it then. We'll see. One thing - all too easy to say ok but then back out because of it being the wrong time of the month. Didn't think of that one - an easy lie for a wife to make I guess.
We'll see.... Chances are if I get knocked back again I'll be interested in plan A again.
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