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Post by Caris on Aug 19, 2017 19:59:21 GMT -5
WindSister included, "trust." Think this is also critical in the un/learning process. Trusting ones' self, trusting others, etc. It might be easy to fall back into habits. For example, I'm not used to a partner wanting to talk through things. Roommate avoids difficult conversations, while AP embraces them. It's not always easy to tackle tough subjects, but there is this great result in doing so: resolution, to each person's satisfaction. I was going to post this in a separate thread, but think it has relevance here; it's Brene Brown on how to share one's perspective in a healthy way, "the story I'm making up:" www.businessinsider.com/brene-browns-biggest-life-hack-is-a-simple-phrase-2015-8I'll let you all know when I use it... In fact, I can think of a good reason to, right now, with the roommate who is still avoiding topic of separation (we need to talk because I paid for 3 airfares to Hawaii for me and the girls; he needs to know about this, right?). ;-) You hit the nail on the head for me re the "trust." I need to trust a man before...actually I'm not sure what comes after that. Trust enough for what...to disclose more about myself, become intimate, share my concerns and fears? I suppose all the above, but also trusting myself, and that's the big revelation that I don't trust myself. I don't trust that all my dragons will come rising to the surface if I allow myself to become close to someone. In fact, I'm sure they will come out breathing fire, and it would take someone who was so attracted to me to want to stick around in the first place. Being that I clam up and need my space if a man compliments my physical attributes, how I overcome this alone, that's one issue I don't know how to solve, and I'm so damn lonely with no partner, no back up, no one to hold me, but maybe I'm so far gone, it's unsolvable.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 21, 2017 8:41:10 GMT -5
WindSister included, "trust." Think this is also critical in the un/learning process. Trusting ones' self, trusting others, etc. It might be easy to fall back into habits. For example, I'm not used to a partner wanting to talk through things. Roommate avoids difficult conversations, while AP embraces them. It's not always easy to tackle tough subjects, but there is this great result in doing so: resolution, to each person's satisfaction. I was going to post this in a separate thread, but think it has relevance here; it's Brene Brown on how to share one's perspective in a healthy way, "the story I'm making up:" www.businessinsider.com/brene-browns-biggest-life-hack-is-a-simple-phrase-2015-8I'll let you all know when I use it... In fact, I can think of a good reason to, right now, with the roommate who is still avoiding topic of separation (we need to talk because I paid for 3 airfares to Hawaii for me and the girls; he needs to know about this, right?). ;-) You hit the nail on the head for me re the "trust." I need to trust a man before...actually I'm not sure what comes after that. Trust enough for what...to disclose more about myself, become intimate, share my concerns and fears? I suppose all the above, but also trusting myself, and that's the big revelation that I don't trust myself. I don't trust that all my dragons will come rising to the surface if I allow myself to become close to someone. In fact, I'm sure they will come out breathing fire, and it would take someone who was so attracted to me to want to stick around in the first place. Being that I clam up and need my space if a man compliments my physical attributes, how I overcome this alone, that's one issue I don't know how to solve, and I'm so damn lonely with no partner, no back up, no one to hold me, but maybe I'm so far gone, it's unsolvable. For me, I didn't trust my husband right out of the shoot. He has earned it over time through his consistent actions. There are still times I might react from fear and to him it looks like I am mistrusting him (and that hurts him). That's when I have to really look at myself and see that I still have deep fears when it comes to him just up and leaving me or cheating on me or giving up on me, rejecting me. Relationships are scary -- they really are. When we REALLY allow ourselves to open up, feel, fall in love, be vulnerable and all that jazz, it's damn scary. No one is perfect, though, so, ultimately, our MAIN SOURCE of love, peace, etc. has to be within us. It really does. Even being IN a happy relationship, I am here to tell you loneliness still exists. Anxiety still exists. Not feeling good enough still exists. My husband does and says all the right things, but I still always have to work on ME, from the inside, and be MY MAIN SOURCE of love and strength for myself. Sorry for rambling thoughts... just throwing them out there.
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Post by Caris on Aug 21, 2017 11:36:19 GMT -5
You hit the nail on the head for me re the "trust." I need to trust a man before...actually I'm not sure what comes after that. Trust enough for what...to disclose more about myself, become intimate, share my concerns and fears? I suppose all the above, but also trusting myself, and that's the big revelation that I don't trust myself. I don't trust that all my dragons will come rising to the surface if I allow myself to become close to someone. In fact, I'm sure they will come out breathing fire, and it would take someone who was so attracted to me to want to stick around in the first place. Being that I clam up and need my space if a man compliments my physical attributes, how I overcome this alone, that's one issue I don't know how to solve, and I'm so damn lonely with no partner, no back up, no one to hold me, but maybe I'm so far gone, it's unsolvable. For me, I didn't trust my husband right out of the shoot. He has earned it over time through his consistent actions. There are still times I might react from fear and to him it looks like I am mistrusting him (and that hurts him). That's when I have to really look at myself and see that I still have deep fears when it comes to him just up and leaving me or cheating on me or giving up on me, rejecting me. Relationships are scary -- they really are. When we REALLY allow ourselves to open up, feel, fall in love, be vulnerable and all that jazz, it's damn scary. No one is perfect, though, so, ultimately, our MAIN SOURCE of love, peace, etc. has to be within us. It really does. Even being IN a happy relationship, I am here to tell you loneliness still exists. Anxiety still exists. Not feeling good enough still exists. My husband does and says all the right things, but I still always have to work on ME, from the inside, and be MY MAIN SOURCE of love and strength for myself. Sorry for rambling thoughts... just throwing them out there. I know what you mean, but I disagree about feeling lonely in a good relationship. I once had a good relationship, the best anyone could wish for, until he was murdered, but all this stuff, these doubts and fears were not even on my radar. I never thought about such things. We both just lived and loved in the present, and it just wasn't an issue for me. He was my soulmate, and I had such a peace within, a contentment, I'd never known before. I felt totally loved, totally desired, and totally wanted, and he felt the same with me. I hadn't done any inner work (didn't even think about it), I didn't know if I loved myself or not because I never even thought about it. I did have some insecurities from my abusive childhood, but with him, those didn't bother me anymore. I believe fully in the healing power of Love. I mean pure and unadulterated love, when you connect so deeply with another, it's like...no, IT IS a medicine for the soul. It's a soothing balm that washes away the pains of the past. That has only happened twice in my life, and the feeling of being loved for who you are, the feeling of being wanted for who you are (warts and all) washes that fear, that pain, and those doubts right out of you. I lost both those Loves, and I was devastated both times, so I think this "loving yourself first" is pretty meaningless. I think it's more about valuing yourself as a human being, and having self respect. I do value my humanity, my character, and I do have self respect, but I don't look through rose tinted glasses. I face reality. Now, I can only speak for myself, but Love is the answer for me. I know this because I've experienced it, and know it's effects. I can work on myself until I'm 90, and it's not going to change reality. It's not going to heal me. Its not going to change how I see myself as a woman because I see the reality of the woman I am, and I don't like what I see. That's how it is. If you feel lonely in your marriage, maybe you don't have as deep a connection as you think you do, or maybe you are so damaged from your SM that you can't open up fully to the relationship that would in effect bring you peace, and when you have true peace and contentment, you don't feel lonely. You did mention that it hurts your husband when you mistrust him, so that right there is causing your loneliness. It's separating you from your bliss.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 21, 2017 15:27:35 GMT -5
For me, I didn't trust my husband right out of the shoot. He has earned it over time through his consistent actions. There are still times I might react from fear and to him it looks like I am mistrusting him (and that hurts him). That's when I have to really look at myself and see that I still have deep fears when it comes to him just up and leaving me or cheating on me or giving up on me, rejecting me. Relationships are scary -- they really are. When we REALLY allow ourselves to open up, feel, fall in love, be vulnerable and all that jazz, it's damn scary. No one is perfect, though, so, ultimately, our MAIN SOURCE of love, peace, etc. has to be within us. It really does. Even being IN a happy relationship, I am here to tell you loneliness still exists. Anxiety still exists. Not feeling good enough still exists. My husband does and says all the right things, but I still always have to work on ME, from the inside, and be MY MAIN SOURCE of love and strength for myself. Sorry for rambling thoughts... just throwing them out there. I know what you mean, but I disagree about feeling lonely in a good relationship. I once had a good relationship, the best anyone could wish for, until he was murdered, but all this stuff, these doubts and fears were not even on my radar. I never thought about such things. We both just lived and loved in the present, and it just wasn't an issue for me. He was my soulmate, and I had such a peace within, a contentment, I'd never known before. I felt totally loved, totally desired, and totally wanted, and he felt the same with me. I hadn't done any inner work (didn't even think about it), I didn't know if I loved myself or not because I never even thought about it. I did have some insecurities from my abusive childhood, but with him, those didn't bother me anymore. I believe fully in the healing power of Love. I mean pure and unadulterated love, when you connect so deeply with another, it's like...no, IT IS a medicine for the soul. It's a soothing balm that washes away the pains of the past. That has only happened twice in my life, and the feeling of being loved for who you are, the feeling of being wanted for who you are (warts and all) washes that fear, that pain, and those doubts right out of you. I lost both those Loves, and I was devastated both times, so I think this "loving yourself first" is pretty meaningless. I think it's more about valuing yourself as a human being, and having self respect. I do value my humanity, my character, and I do have self respect, but I don't look through rose tinted glasses. I face reality. Now, I can only speak for myself, but Love is the answer for me. I know this because I've experienced it, and know it's effects. I can work on myself until I'm 90, and it's not going to change reality. It's not going to heal me. Its not going to change how I see myself as a woman because I see the reality of the woman I am, and I don't like what I see. That's how it is. If you feel lonely in your marriage, maybe you don't have as deep a connection as you think you do, or maybe you are so damaged from your SM that you can't open up fully to the relationship that would in effect bring you peace, and when you have true peace and contentment, you don't feel lonely. You did mention that it hurts your husband when you mistrust him, so that right there is causing your loneliness. It's separating you from your bliss. Well, we will just agree we see things differently then. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 21, 2017 15:56:00 GMT -5
For me, I didn't trust my husband right out of the shoot. He has earned it over time through his consistent actions. There are still times I might react from fear and to him it looks like I am mistrusting him (and that hurts him). That's when I have to really look at myself and see that I still have deep fears when it comes to him just up and leaving me or cheating on me or giving up on me, rejecting me. Relationships are scary -- they really are. When we REALLY allow ourselves to open up, feel, fall in love, be vulnerable and all that jazz, it's damn scary. No one is perfect, though, so, ultimately, our MAIN SOURCE of love, peace, etc. has to be within us. It really does. Even being IN a happy relationship, I am here to tell you loneliness still exists. Anxiety still exists. Not feeling good enough still exists. My husband does and says all the right things, but I still always have to work on ME, from the inside, and be MY MAIN SOURCE of love and strength for myself. Sorry for rambling thoughts... just throwing them out there. I know what you mean, but I disagree about feeling lonely in a good relationship. I once had a good relationship, the best anyone could wish for, until he was murdered, but all this stuff, these doubts and fears were not even on my radar. I never thought about such things. We both just lived and loved in the present, and it just wasn't an issue for me. He was my soulmate, and I had such a peace within, a contentment, I'd never known before. I felt totally loved, totally desired, and totally wanted, and he felt the same with me. I hadn't done any inner work (didn't even think about it), I didn't know if I loved myself or not because I never even thought about it. I did have some insecurities from my abusive childhood, but with him, those didn't bother me anymore. I believe fully in the healing power of Love. I mean pure and unadulterated love, when you connect so deeply with another, it's like...no, IT IS a medicine for the soul. It's a soothing balm that washes away the pains of the past. That has only happened twice in my life, and the feeling of being loved for who you are, the feeling of being wanted for who you are (warts and all) washes that fear, that pain, and those doubts right out of you. I lost both those Loves, and I was devastated both times, so I think this "loving yourself first" is pretty meaningless. I think it's more about valuing yourself as a human being, and having self respect. I do value my humanity, my character, and I do have self respect, but I don't look through rose tinted glasses. I face reality. Now, I can only speak for myself, but Love is the answer for me. I know this because I've experienced it, and know it's effects. I can work on myself until I'm 90, and it's not going to change reality. It's not going to heal me. Its not going to change how I see myself as a woman because I see the reality of the woman I am, and I don't like what I see. That's how it is. If you feel lonely in your marriage, maybe you don't have as deep a connection as you think you do, or maybe you are so damaged from your SM that you can't open up fully to the relationship that would in effect bring you peace, and when you have true peace and contentment, you don't feel lonely. You did mention that it hurts your husband when you mistrust him, so that right there is causing your loneliness. It's separating you from your bliss. I guess I want to default back to TMD posted and shared -- a VERY powerful read from Brene Brown. (I am a huge fan of Brene Brown). "The stories we make up" define our realities. It's amazing how powerful they are and we have control of them, really. That's a powerful way to look at things. My husband I do convey that to each other in a different way, "What I am hearing is this.. or what I am feeling is.." Maybe an old therapy trick, but it helps us get to a place of seeing each other more. When I react from fear, YES, that is 100% separating me from my bliss. Isn't that true for you, too? You are reacting to life from fear when you say you are too old, past your prime, no one wants you..... Total, 100% connection to a person? I don't see how that can ever happen, but then maybe that is a story I am making up. Total, 100% matched libidos? I don't see how that can happen, but again, maybe THAT is a story I am making up. SOMEONE ELSE fulfilling us, 100%? Again, I don't see how that can happen, but I guess that's just me. OR maybe some ARE seeking "total perfection" and using that to keep them from experiencing true intimacy with another, it becomes this wall of protection, a way to keep ones' guard up so they can't get hurt. I am risking hurt for love. I love my husband like I have loved no other man. But that doesn't suddenly make life zen-like and perfect or wipe clear all my inner stuff I need to work on. My husband is not a perfect man. I am not a perfect woman. We both have issues. (I swear I have that song in my head all the time, "I got issues....."). lol I don't see how conflict, miscommunication, etc. can NOT happen in a relationship. It's how we work through them that matters. Not that it should always be a struggle and it definitely is NOT one for me right now in my relationship (at all). My loneliness is pretty personal, it dances with depression and I have to stay very proactive in taking care of myself. Self care IS the only way I feel whole, complete and love. This love for myself then transcends out to others effortlessly. Without it for myself, I can't "feel" love from others. I have to eat well. I have to exercise, and I absolutely have to get outside daily with time in the actual woods at least weekly. It's not because of some flaw in my relationship I have to do those things. My husband and I are deeply connected, but he is still outside of me. I don't see how anyone can fulfill me from the outside, (total, 100%). Caris, I am sorry you don't like what you see when you look at yourself. I am not trying to change your mind, obviously, you are a strong, independent woman. But maybe the story you are making up is your own demise, too? Your own reason for not experiencing your true bliss? I KNOW my own thoughts keep me from bliss sometimes - that's what I am always, always, always trying to stay "awake" for -- that's what I am always working on. Letting shit go, embracing the now, opening my heart to love (starting with and for myself and then transcending that outwards), being authentic, being the woman I want to be. From there things do take off. But, of course, sometimes we all get stuck and need to jolt ourselves forward again. I don't know, again, just sharing thoughts. Take em or leave em.
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Post by TMD on Aug 22, 2017 23:02:43 GMT -5
You hit the nail on the head for me re the "trust." I need to trust a man before...actually I'm not sure what comes after that. Trust enough for what...to disclose more about myself, become intimate, share my concerns and fears? I suppose all the above, but also trusting myself, and that's the big revelation that I don't trust myself. I don't trust that all my dragons will come rising to the surface if I allow myself to become close to someone. In fact, I'm sure they will come out breathing fire, and it would take someone who was so attracted to me to want to stick around in the first place. Being that I clam up and need my space if a man compliments my physical attributes, how I overcome this alone, that's one issue I don't know how to solve, and I'm so damn lonely with no partner, no back up, no one to hold me, but maybe I'm so far gone, it's unsolvable. For me, I didn't trust my husband right out of the shoot. He has earned it over time through his consistent actions. There are still times I might react from fear and to him it looks like I am mistrusting him (and that hurts him). That's when I have to really look at myself and see that I still have deep fears when it comes to him just up and leaving me or cheating on me or giving up on me, rejecting me. Relationships are scary -- they really are. When we REALLY allow ourselves to open up, feel, fall in love, be vulnerable and all that jazz, it's damn scary. No one is perfect, though, so, ultimately, our MAIN SOURCE of love, peace, etc. has to be within us. It really does. Even being IN a happy relationship, I am here to tell you loneliness still exists. Anxiety still exists. Not feeling good enough still exists. My husband does and says all the right things, but I still always have to work on ME, from the inside, and be MY MAIN SOURCE of love and strength for myself. Sorry for rambling thoughts... just throwing them out there. I feel that trust is something that ebbs and flows as it grows (if that makes sense). I can't speak to my roommate-spouse because I can't trust him (recently he left a VERY LARGE AXE on our deck, which my teen decided to threaten her younger sibling with... it was supposed to be funny, but it is so far from funny... and both roommate and axe-wielding daughter should know better). Anyways, as always, I digress... I have a lover, a friend, a man, an AP, all of the above whom I trust. I did not I trust him at the beginning. But there was this one day in which he held me, practically a bear hug, and it was at that point that my very healthy cynicism began to melt away and I had faint hope that passionate love could be a reality. It is scary, and at the same time so very rewarding to have a mutual relationship in which growth happens on both sides; love grows, trust grows, soul growth, etc. I will admit, I still have deeply vulnerable moments, as well as lonely and depressed moments. There's nothing he can do about the latter. I have to find a way to climb out. But he's always there, waiting in the wings for the moment I surface.
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