|
Post by cagedtiger on Apr 30, 2017 20:39:11 GMT -5
If you want to be a good partner, then it is imperative that you bring the best possible version of *you* to the table. It also means that if you have "issues" of some sort, that you work your arse off in trying to rectify such "issues", and you don't dump these "issues" on your partner. You don't make your spouse pay the price for YOUR issues, This spouse of yours Sister fgb , is failing at the first hurdle. He is NOT bringing the best possible version of himself to the table - or - he IS. That is to say, what you have is as good as it can get. Either way, you are tasked with making a brutal assessment of your deal. Is it "good enough" ?? YES!!! This articulates exactly how I feel. I have compartmentalized my marriage to such an extreme that I still feel like we have a good marriage even though he has overwhelming intimacy issues that he won't or can't attend to. I am not standing for it anymore. I'm done being patient and compassionate. We have hardly spoken since last night when I kicked him out of bed. He was at work all day, when he came home we were fine in front of the kids. I haven't said a word to him since I put the kids to bed. I'm hiding in the bedroom and I have no idea if he will even come in here tonight. He's got to fucking face the music and start contributing and trying to work though this or he gets NOTHING from me. I have reached my limit. He can figure it out. Apologize. Talk to me. Find a counselor. Make an effort. He's capable. He knows exactly where I stand and how I feel. It's his turn now. I would still recommend you get a therapist of your own as well. That will help you work through your own feelings, and focus your actions and what happens next. Your (rightly) bear a lot of anger (rage, as you said) towards your husband's family and the circumstances of his upbringing, but you're going to need to be able to let go of that eventually, regardless of how the two of you decide to move forward.
|
|
fgb
Junior Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by fgb on Apr 30, 2017 20:54:26 GMT -5
"I would still recommend you get a therapist of your own as well. That will help you work through your own feelings, and focus your actions and what happens next. Your (rightly) bear a lot of anger (rage, as you said) towards your husband's family and the circumstances of his upbringing, but you're going to need to be able to let go of that eventually, regardless of how the two of you decide to move forward.[/quote]
"
absolutely agree. I am going to look for one tomorrow. I have been too concerned about his mental health and waiting for him to get therapy. I need my own. I have given too much - to him, to my kids, my students (I'm an overachieving teacher), to my friends, my family (especially as my dad fought cancer...). I have lost myself and my own needs. Thank you for the reminder.
|
|
fgb
Junior Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by fgb on Apr 30, 2017 20:57:47 GMT -5
This is a really helpful group. Thank you. I am in tears from the relief of being able to talk about this and find other people who understand. It's not exactly a topic I bring up over cocktails with my girlfriends... I've been holding on to the pain and sadness for so long. 7+ years. And, I'm still very much in love with my husband so that adds another layer of sadness. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by allworkandnoplay on Apr 30, 2017 22:36:34 GMT -5
Welcome, fgb. I am glad to read that you feel good about the other aspects of your marriage. So many of us seem to see our SM as just one of many problems - a symptom, if you will. In that respect, I envy you. I hope you find some good advice here.
|
|
|
Post by itsjustus on May 1, 2017 7:31:04 GMT -5
Welcome Sister fgb. I'm glad you found this group as well. You will find some of the most helpful, empathetic people onthe planet here. People who share your plight, sense of confusion, sadness, anger, and resentment. Its the last one that makes me agree completely with cagedtiger about finding a therapist/counselor as soon as possible. Since you've closed off the options of outsourcing or leaving, your "what next" is to learn how to live with the path you've chosen and deal with the inevitable rise in resentment that I see already growing in you. Out of all the emotions I've seen thru the years in people dealing with their SM, resentment is the inevitable destination. That resentment has lead others to either outsource (usually for just awhile) or leave. The resentment is actually a good thing, leading those here who are very typically quite empathetic and giving people to turn that resentment into the anger necessary to face their facts, then face their refuser, and one way or the other, leave their deal. I greatly admire your decision to stay. I can say that every person that has ended up here love(ed) their spouse/STBX/EX, otherwise they're would be no angst regarding the lack of sex/intimacy/affection...the "everything's great except the sex". I will warn you that your resentment will rise, steadily, if not exponentially, as your spouse continues to ignore your needs, and not acknowledge his reposibilitiy to grow and address them in the marriage. That resentment may overtake you. You will need a therapist to help you deal with that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 9:45:24 GMT -5
We have always dealt with different libido levels - mine is strong and I would ideally like to have lots of sex and his is low. He has had his testosterone and blood pressure checked and everything. It's not physical. Don't be too sure. Many doctors will just check testosterone, see it is within the "normal range," and just go on. But the normal range is 400-1100, and that includes men from ages 18-80. When I had mine checked in 2014, it was 415, and the doctor said it was normal, and I should not do anything. And it was normal... for an 80 year old man! I had it checked again last year by a doctor who specializes in bioidentical hormones and it was 186. I had bioidentical testosterone pellets inserted, and now I feel like I am 25. If you want to see if they are offered in your area, here is the site for the pellets I used... www.biotemedical.com/
|
|
fgb
Junior Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by fgb on May 1, 2017 17:17:31 GMT -5
We have always dealt with different libido levels - mine is strong and I would ideally like to have lots of sex and his is low. He has had his testosterone and blood pressure checked and everything. It's not physical. Don't be too sure. Many doctors will just check testosterone, see it is within the "normal range," and just go on. But the normal range is 400-1100, and that includes men from ages 18-80. When I had mine checked in 2014, it was 415, and the doctor said it was normal, and I should not do anything. And it was normal... for an 80 year old man! I had it checked again last year by a doctor who specializes in bioidentical hormones and it was 186. I had bioidentical testosterone pellets inserted, and now I feel like I am 25. If you want to see if they are offered in your area, here is the site for the pellets I used... www.biotemedical.com/That's fascinating. Thank you for the info. I will look into that. I hope you don't mind me asking - were you the refuser in your SM? If so, can I ask how you felt? I am trying to understand my husbands experience. I know he feels bad having a low sex drive and I hope to continue to feel empathy for him, even as I work through so much of my own anger.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 18:55:04 GMT -5
Don't be too sure. Many doctors will just check testosterone, see it is within the "normal range," and just go on. But the normal range is 400-1100, and that includes men from ages 18-80. When I had mine checked in 2014, it was 415, and the doctor said it was normal, and I should not do anything. And it was normal... for an 80 year old man! I had it checked again last year by a doctor who specializes in bioidentical hormones and it was 186. I had bioidentical testosterone pellets inserted, and now I feel like I am 25. If you want to see if they are offered in your area, here is the site for the pellets I used... www.biotemedical.com/That's fascinating. Thank you for the info. I will look into that. I hope you don't mind me asking - were you the refuser in your SM? If so, can I ask how you felt? I am trying to understand my husbands experience. I know he feels bad having a low sex drive and I hope to continue to feel empathy for him, even as I work through so much of my own anger. Lol, no she was always the refuser. But I still always had a very powerful sex drive.
|
|
fgb
Junior Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by fgb on May 2, 2017 10:37:10 GMT -5
After 2 nights with my H on the couch and 2 days of not speaking except to care for the children, last night we had our biggest talk yet. I have some conditions, some red flags and some hopes. I finally said what I have not been wanting to admit: Divorce used to seem like the worst option, but now the worst option is living for the rest of my life in a SM. He needed to hear that. Divorce is a very close second on my list of things I do not want. Honestly, I don't want any of it, but who does!?!?
I gave him some very, very clear conditions:
1. We are both going to seek counseling - on our own and then eventually as a couple. I have already contacted 3 counselors who specialize in sexuality. 2. He needs to SHOW UP and do the WORK in counseling and in our discussion. He is no longer allowed to remain silent, retreat or say "I don't know..." He will confront his Mormon upbringing and his first sexual experience - a date rape by an older women while he was passed out drunk at a party in his early 20s. 3. We need to eventually have sex 2-3 times a week (I am willing to compromise on this. With 2 small kids, once a week would be awesome and I wanted to aim high and then meet in the middle). 4. He is going to the doctor to see if there are any physical reasons for his low libido. 5. He might have depression and must attend to it.
Here are the red flags:
1. When I explained to him the daily pain I feel being caught in a SM, and how multiple times a week for years I will just stop and feel like a huge weight is on my chest and stand in disbelief that this is my life, he told me he never feels that way. In fact, he admitted that he never even thinks about it unless I bring it up. This is a HUGE red flag to me. How can he be OK with sex 6-8 times a YEAR? But, he is. I am wondering if maybe he is asexual. That would be very difficult for me to deal with because I don;t see a "cure" for that. 2. He admitted to me that he is not even masturbating anymore. I know he used to do it a few times a week and that really pissed me off because he wasn't sleeping with me.... but at least I knew he had desires and needs. Now it seems he has no desire and needs. 3. We talked about the possibility of him having Aspergers and he took an online test (not the most reliable, I know...) and scored pretty high. He has always dealt with social anxiety and I have entertained the thought that maybe has very mild Aspergers, but now it seems like a real possibility. I have been a teacher for almost 20 years and know a lot about the Autism spectrum, so it would make sense to me. This would also be tough for me because there is not "cure."
These are the things that give me hope:
1. He wants to do counseling. 2. He loves me. 3. He wants to help our marriage get better. 4. He understands how I feel and knows that I will leave him once the kids are older if we can't establish a healthy sex relationship. But he doesn't want to split up and is committed to working this out.
Thanks for reading. This group is helping me get very clear about my feelings, my intentions and the goals in my relationship.
|
|
|
Post by h on May 2, 2017 10:43:28 GMT -5
So glad to hear this! Good luck and I wish you the best. Keep us posted.☺
|
|
|
Post by baza on May 2, 2017 21:02:41 GMT -5
The idea of you having counselling to help sort your shit out is a very good one. The idea of him undertaking counselling to sort his shit out is an equally good idea.
Then, once you are both capable of bringing the best possible versions of yourselves to the table is also a terrific idea.
You'll be giving yourselves the best possible shot at resolving this matter - whatever that may actually mean. It could be the reconstruction of a brand new relationship. It could be the realisation that your deal is done.
Either way, you get to the truth. And that's a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by Venus Erotes on May 2, 2017 21:23:12 GMT -5
If you want to be a good partner, then it is imperative that you bring the best possible version of *you* to the table. It also means that if you have "issues" of some sort, that you work your arse off in trying to rectify such "issues", and you don't dump these "issues" on your partner. You don't make your spouse pay the price for YOUR issues, This spouse of yours Sister fgb , is failing at the first hurdle. He is NOT bringing the best possible version of himself to the table - or - he IS. That is to say, what you have is as good as it can get. Either way, you are tasked with making a brutal assessment of your deal. Is it "good enough" ?? YES!!! This articulates exactly how I feel. I have compartmentalized my marriage to such an extreme that I still feel like we have a good marriage even though he has overwhelming intimacy issues that he won't or can't attend to. I am not standing for it anymore. I'm done being patient and compassionate. We have hardly spoken since last night when I kicked him out of bed. He was at work all day, when he came home we were fine in front of the kids. I haven't said a word to him since I put the kids to bed. I'm hiding in the bedroom and I have no idea if he will even come in here tonight. He's got to fucking face the music and start contributing and trying to work though this or he gets NOTHING from me. I have reached my limit. He can figure it out. Apologize. Talk to me. Find a counselor. Make an effort. He's capable. He knows exactly where I stand and how I feel. It's his turn now. YOU FREAKING ROCK FGB! I am so proud of you! Seriously, I am. So many of us come on to these support sites (myself included) looking for advice, receiving it, too scared to move forward, and nothing changes. YOU, my dear, are standing up for YOU and YOUR needs and desires! I get the body shame thing too. Hubs is a survivor of childhood sex abuse - by a camp counselor. As a result, he's been through the worst of PTSD, being a shell of himself and wanting to die. That was before I met him. I was aware of his skeletons, but they remained in the closet and I was scared to open the door. One day I had the courage to say "I don't think we are connecting". From that day forward, he has turned to work on himself, which ironically is another issue in survivors of childhood sex abuse - self absorption - but it was aimed in a different direction. Once he moved into counseling, he took it head on and forgave his abuser (I haven't) and has been able to move forward toward healing. He's had a rough road, but I am so proud of the progress he's made. Again, he's my family, but we are not meant to live together as husband and wife. We are too different, and I believe we have both come to realize that. Congratulations on standing your ground!
|
|
|
Post by lwoetin on May 3, 2017 2:26:29 GMT -5
Here are the red flags: 1. When I explained to him the daily pain I feel being caught in a SM, and how multiple times a week for years I will just stop and feel like a huge weight is on my chest and stand in disbelief that this is my life, he told me he never feels that way. In fact, he admitted that he never even thinks about it unless I bring it up. This is a HUGE red flag to me. How can he be OK with sex 6-8 times a YEAR? But, he is. I am wondering if maybe he is asexual. That would be very difficult for me to deal with because I don;t see a "cure" for that. 2. He admitted to me that he is not even masturbating anymore. I know he used to do it a few times a week and that really pissed me off because he wasn't sleeping with me.... but at least I knew he had desires and needs. Now it seems he has no desire and needs. 3. We talked about the possibility of him having Aspergers and he took an online test (not the most reliable, I know...) and scored pretty high. He has always dealt with social anxiety and I have entertained the thought that maybe has very mild Aspergers, but now it seems like a real possibility. I have been a teacher for almost 20 years and know a lot about the Autism spectrum, so it would make sense to me. This would also be tough for me because there is not "cure." These are the things that give me hope: 1. He wants to do counseling. 2. He loves me. 3. He wants to help our marriage get better. 4. He understands how I feel and knows that I will leave him once the kids are older if we can't establish a healthy sex relationship. But he doesn't want to split up and is committed to working this out. Being OK with sex 6-8 times a year doesn't have to mean he is asexual. My wife was that way but it was because she prefers other things over sex. She does not and has no interest in masturbating also. It's a compromise for us to meet halfway. I like the things that give you hope. Hopefully your marriage improves. He is a decent man and you have young kids. Good luck. I saw your other post about LDS. My graduate advisor was Mormon, and he and his attractive wife sure seemed really happy. 4 kids. He is extremely bright and caring. If LDS is a cult, his religion formed him in the right way. Any sexual teaching he got didn't screw him up. He is what he is, take him or leave him. My faith (Catholic) has its rules against divorce, premarital sex, birth control, masturbation, porn,...I n my college years, I was part of a group which was founded by a priest who flogged himself with a whip with sharp objects attached to it. All to control his impure sexual thoughts. Fortunately, he didn't marry. (He's been canonized as a saint not too long ago.) Religious teachings don't mess people up. I think other things mess people up. If I have a whip, it would be for recreational activities.
|
|