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Post by baza on Aug 14, 2016 1:17:08 GMT -5
Zipcode therapy (which seemed like a real good idea in your circumstances) works on a basis of putting physical distance between the spouses for a reasonable time, so they can, if they choose, work on their individual issues, and hopefully, then bring 2 (two) reasonably functional people to the resolution table.
And on what you have said, I am none too sure that this particular marital counsellor is the right person to try and mediate a resolution either.
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Your missus is moving back in.
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That's the end of zipcode therapy then.
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The chances of (either of you) gaining some clarity whilst still living in the dysfunctional environment are awfully low. It's just too easy to get involved in slanging matches and point scoring given the emotionally charged atmosphere.
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Post by unmatched on Aug 14, 2016 2:03:49 GMT -5
"A doctor can't perform surgery on a patient who's bleeding out on the operating table. Instead, the patient has to be stabilized first." This is what our counselor said after she recovered from her very visible surprise at everything had transpired in the last two weeks. So basically, the immediate plan is for the wife to move back in (I think that'll happen tomorrow), and basically for us to attempt to coexist in the same house as roommates, each doing our own thing, without any expectations from the other person. Any big complaints that we may want to bring up that are liable to turn into fights are also to be written down and saved for our next session. WTF is your counsellor talking about? Her goal is clearly to patch up your marriage as best you can. It seems to me, given where you are at, that before you even begin you need to figure out whether you both actually want to be married or not, and if you do whether your ideas of what that marriage should look like are even on the same page. To try and patch things up without addressing all of that first is like trying to build a house with no foundations. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 2:50:26 GMT -5
"A doctor can't perform surgery on a patient who's bleeding out on the operating table. Instead, the patient has to be stabilized first." This is what our counselor said after she recovered from her very visible surprise at everything had transpired in the last two weeks. So basically, the immediate plan is for the wife to move back in (I think that'll happen tomorrow), and basically for us to attempt to coexist in the same house as roommates, each doing our own thing, without any expectations from the other person. Any big complaints that we may want to bring up that are liable to turn into fights are also to be written down and saved for our next session. I think there's a better medical analogy. My shrink said when he was in med school he did a night rotation as the doctor on staff at a psych hospital. And he told his supervisor he was worried about whether he'd be able to act quickly enough if someone coded. And his supervisor said if they've coded they're already dead. You can't save them. You try because you're ethically obligated, but you're not going to save them. This marriage has coded. And you've run in with the crash cart and given it your best shot, but it is now on life support. And no one is willing to pull the plug. But a marriage is like an organism. You can't raise it from the dead. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 2:52:20 GMT -5
The more I read the less impressed I am with the profession of marriage counseling.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Aug 14, 2016 3:02:03 GMT -5
"A doctor can't perform surgery on a patient who's bleeding out on the operating table. Instead, the patient has to be stabilized first." This is what our counselor said after she recovered from her very visible surprise at everything had transpired in the last two weeks. So basically, the immediate plan is for the wife to move back in (I think that'll happen tomorrow), and basically for us to attempt to coexist in the same house as roommates, each doing our own thing, without any expectations from the other person. Any big complaints that we may want to bring up that are liable to turn into fights are also to be written down and saved for our next session. I don't think I like your counsellor Tiger. She's not a friend of your wife is she? 😳 |
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Post by csl on Aug 14, 2016 7:10:47 GMT -5
She must know that if you guys separate, even temporarily, that you are not coming back. Yes, yes she does. I see that everyone is dumping on the counselor, but I remember this exchange from two weeks ago. Could it be that she saw the same dynamic and short-circuited it by putting them back in the house together? Just throwing that out for thought..... |
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Post by baza on Aug 14, 2016 7:36:53 GMT -5
Could be Brother csl, the counsellor 'might' have a Machiavellian streak in them !!!
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But any Marital Counsellor needs 2 (two) reasonably functional and motivated persons to appear before them. 1 (one) ain't enough.
That (plus the counsellors individual competency) is the limiting factor in joint counselling.
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In the context of this group, Marital counselling has an appalling record.
The avoidant spouse in instances will not attend, and in other instances, may as well not attend, as they are not invested in the process.
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Addendum
Mrs CagedTiger isn't showing a real lot of enthusiasm in this situation. Indeed Brother CagedTiger doesn't seem to be very gung ho about it either.
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Post by csl on Aug 14, 2016 7:44:10 GMT -5
Could be Brother csl, the counsellor 'might' have a Machiavellian streak in them !!! - But any Marital Counsellor needs 2 (two) reasonably functional and motivated persons to appear before them. 1 (one) ain't enough. That (plus the counsellors individual competency) is the limiting factor in joint counselling. - In the context of this group, Marital counselling has an appalling record. The avoidant spouse in instances will not attend, and in other instances, may as well not attend, as they are not invested in the process. I do agree with you that it takes two to make a marriage. On my blog, one of my truisms is "It's not his sexlife, it's not her sexlife, it's y'alls' sexlife." After all, it takes two to tangle. In my reading, I've seen those who have bombed in counseling and those who have succeeded in counseling. But it does take two willing to tangle, not just one. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 14, 2016 9:37:47 GMT -5
Therapists and councilors do seem to take a different approach than what most of us might expect. I went through the same thing. Our councilor had me taking my wife out for dates, we would share how things went. Then out of the blue she presented a letter saying " I should leave the house for a month." There were strings attached. Mostly me still running the kids places. I answered that with a firm," no" " You leave, and pay the bills on line, and I will do all the rest, like I have been doing." That ended that!
The therapist said that was a major set back, however hardly a negative word was said to my wife about it. Instead, I was asked to ignore it and continue on with our " healing". ( not his words) I was no longer just a hamster on a wheel, instead I was a hamster on a wheel with another hamster on my back! I figured this out for myself eventually. That is worth it's weight in gold for the future, when dealing with other issues and there will be many.
There are still times when I have to hear the therapist say," your wife wants things done only her way, and did zero to save the marriage". His job is to have me say that and come to that conclusion on my own. I am either, too caring, generous, forgiving, week, afraid, blind, etc.... Choose any ,or all! ( part of it is how I have let myself be conditioned for more than two decades)
What sounds like a set back is going to be a strong reminder for you,( a tipping point) of what you are dealing with.
" You can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from nesting in your hair". Martin Luther King.
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 14, 2016 11:07:59 GMT -5
"A doctor can't perform surgery on a patient who's bleeding out on the operating table. Instead, the patient has to be stabilized first." This is what our counselor said after she recovered from her very visible surprise at everything had transpired in the last two weeks. So basically, the immediate plan is for the wife to move back in (I think that'll happen tomorrow), and basically for us to attempt to coexist in the same house as roommates, each doing our own thing, without any expectations from the other person. Any big complaints that we may want to bring up that are liable to turn into fights are also to be written down and saved for our next session. I don't think I like your counsellor Tiger. She's not a friend of your wife is she? 😳 No, she actually came highly recommended from a very trusted friend of mine who is also a therapist. But thank you for looking out for me.  I think it'll be OK, honestly. I had written a much longer post originally that got lost in the tubes, so I quickly jotted that last down as a quick update. I think the idea of us living roommates is more of a diagnostic type thing, to see what's still possible for at least the short term, since we haven't even really started the work yet. We were supposed to start the "storytelling" bit of how we ended up where we are now, but the whole leaving thing kinda took precedent. It came out on Friday that both of us honestly felt better being on our own and doing our own things without feeling like we had to be doing "something" for the other person (her, now that she's started to realize how unhappy I am, feeling like she's being"watched" by me, and me, having felt the same way for the last couple of years in general), so I think this is to see whether or not we can potentially live under the same roof when we start diving into the painful stuff, or if maybe zip code therapy will be in the intermediate term plan. Also, keep in mind this is only our second session with this therapist, after the non-starter we had with that great former therapist of my wife's at Wanda's House of Healing on the far side of Nowhere, North Carolina. The first session was the introduction and laying down of the strategy and goals, remember that whole 3-4 month diagnostic process to determine if we'll be able to meet each other's needs, maybe even more importantly, even really want to. Friday we were supposed to start telling each of our sides of the story of our marriage any how we ended up where we are, and then it was supposed to move on from there. I think the fact that we didn't even get to the hard part before one of us left probably shocked our counselor a good bit. After that part, her tone got a lot more stern, especially towards my wife, as she asked first of we were both still committed to the process as laid out (I said I'm going to do something, therefore yes I'll do it, but my wife's yes reply was a lot more hesitant- and that wasn't lost on the counselor either). She then also told us that when it came to any further talk of what either of us needed to be doing outside of our sessions with her in terms of individual counseling, that she would make the recommendations to the appropriate person based on her observations, and that if we wanted to keep this going, it would be in our best interest to follow them. This was also said firmly while looking at my wife. Next week starts the real digging in, and I'm sure feelings (hers) are going to start getting hurt pretty quickly, based on past history. But thankfully, neither one of us will be able to bolt during the session. What happens afterwards though, remains to be seen. But I'll wait for Friday to play itself out. So, there's more of the rest of the story, at least as I see it from my side. Hopefully that provides better clarification. |
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Post by csl on Aug 14, 2016 11:23:45 GMT -5
OK, now I'm liking this counselor. 😀
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 14, 2016 11:37:29 GMT -5
OK, now I'm liking this counselor. 😀 What made the difference? Her scolding us like kids fighting on the playground?  |
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Post by csl on Aug 14, 2016 12:18:42 GMT -5
Well, yeah, there is that, but your "... stern, especially towards my wife..." helped seal the deal.
The fact that she's not just saying it's your fault, from the get-go, says a lot.
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 14, 2016 12:46:13 GMT -5
Well, yeah, there is that, but your "... stern, especially towards my wife..." helped seal the deal. The fact that she's not just saying it's your fault, from the get-go, says a lot. Well, as pointed out here, it does take two to tango... Or tangle... Part of me wonders if the, "so why did you get married" question comes up this week. |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 14, 2016 13:31:28 GMT -5
I went to one session of marriage counseling. It was after I already told my H that I wanted a divorce so I was definitely further along. In the previous five years I had asked my H to go to marriage counseling and he said NO.
At that point I was done. I knew what I wanted for myself and I was resolute about making it perfectly clear to him and the counselor despite the fact that my H's purpose for being there was because he didn't want a divorce.
I was perfectly clear and at the end the therapist advised my husband to go to an attorney, and if he wanted to continue with her on his own that he could.
He didn't. He went back into denial and I got my divorce.
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