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Post by unmatched on Aug 8, 2016 21:15:16 GMT -5
cagedtiger , translating / distilling her note further... "You have issues. I'm not running away, nope - I'm 'giving you space' to work It out and get over it. Call me when you're fixed." I.e., "You have baggage. I'm not responsible for this situation, or fixing it." That is exactly how I read this too. And clearly it is not very fair for her to be giving you space to deal with your shit and sort your head out when she seems to have no intention of dealing with her own. (To be fair I don't know what is going on in her head when she says 'I can be part of that any way you want.' It sounds, though, something like I would like to help but I don't know how or you are not letting me, which is a bit of a cop out.) But ... maybe she is giving you something useful. If she doesn't want to work through this together, then take a few days on your own to deal with some of the hurt and try to let go of the resentment and see if you can come to a place of clarity about exactly what you want from your life and your marriage. Then you can go back to her and say, 'This is what I want.' And see if she is interested in any of the same things that you are. |
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Post by csl on Aug 8, 2016 21:24:07 GMT -5
Actually, this version of Zipcode therapy is a fucking good idea. Such a break could be a godsend, allowing you both to concentrate on your individual issues, and then, at a future date, when you are both individually prepared, to then thrash out a joint resolution. - Where that will probably fuck up though, is that she won't do her part. - In any event, you continuing on your individual counselling and self examination is going to help you reach a greater state of clarity. I can't see a downside in this. But I'd be making the "distance" longer than the 17th August. 90 days minimum would be good. I agree. I wrote a blog last year about "therapeutic distancing"; Townsend and Cloud in Boundaries call it "emotional distancing". Either way, I call it "taking a standing eight" count. They used to have that in boxing, for a fighter to get his bearings after being knocked down. If you need the standing eight, take it. |
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Post by unmatched on Aug 8, 2016 21:28:11 GMT -5
Actually I did have one other thought. I remember a couple of days ago you were talking about separating for a while and thinking that she must know if you do that the chances of your getting back together are minimal. I wonder if she isn't on some level thinking this is all too hard and hoping you will gird your loins and walk.
It might not be what your wife really wants. But as she has got more depressed then your wife is almost not there any more. It is like somebody else is living in her body and you don't know what this new person's wants/needs might be. Somehow you have to deal with this whole new woman who you probably don't like very much. And your wife may or may not decide to come back and visit sometime.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 8, 2016 21:33:23 GMT -5
Actually I did have one other thought. I remember a couple of days ago you were talking about separating for a while and thinking that she must know if you do that the chances of your getting back together are minimal. I wonder if she isn't on some level thinking this is all too hard and hoping you will gird your loins and walk. It might not be what your wife really wants. But as she has got more depressed then your wife is almost not there any more. It is like somebody else is living in her body and you don't know what this new person's wants/needs might be. Somehow you have to deal with this whole new woman who you probably don't like very much. And your wife may or may not decide to come back and visit sometime. That was part of my thinking as well. That she has fear now that you have shown that you have seen the light. That you are on to her schemes, words, and controlling behavior. They are starting to backfire. That is when a controller is confronted with there own shortcomings. You are no longer there excuse. |
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 9, 2016 0:08:31 GMT -5
unmatched, what struck me reading your comment is that she could have owned it, and posed an entirely positive perspective of "I have issues; I need space to soul search and explore changes". Instead, she put it all on him. Which, bottom-line, says "I'm not working on this". At this stage my reaction would be "I clearly need a lot more time, so don't plan on coming back anytime soon. But don't worry, it's all me. I'll call you." Regardless of the thinking, she has put herself in a disadvantageous position, where her return is subject to cagedtiger's discretion. She thinks it's just when he's got his shit sorted out, but he could just as easily say "if you're going to come back, these need to be the groundrules; otherwise, don't bother".
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Post by eternaloptimism on Aug 9, 2016 0:11:55 GMT -5
The wife stopped by briefly to pick up some things, then said she was heading out again. I asked her when she was coming home, and she said that was on me, and pointed to a letter she'd left on the side table for me. I waited til she left before I read it. (Cliff notes) "Tiger, After our conversation Saturday, I took some time to really think about what's going on with us. I couldn't get past my own hurt to see how much pain you're obviously in. I see it now. You have an incredible amount of built up hurt and resentment that deserve your attention. Right now I think I'm a distraction that is keeping you from being able to start healing. I'm taking the time (her brother) is out of town (until the 17th) to let you breathe, think, process, and start to build yourself back up again. I can be part of that process however you like. I just don't want either of us to be in a toxic situation that sabotages our chance at making things right." My gut says she thinks I'm "going through a phase," and need some time to "snap out of it." Still feel like she's not taking any responsibility. Hope I'm wrong So this is going to be a really fun couples therapy session on Friday. It's good that's she sees the situation as serious enough to leave you alone for a little while. Having some space will hopefully allow you both time to clear your heads of being cross at each other, thereby letting the reality of the situation become clear. What does she think you can heal from before the 17th though? It's not like you can magic up a hot sex life with her when she is absent is it! Do you think she actually wants a husband? Relationships just shouldn't be this hard. It's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Doesn't matter how good a fit you want it to be, doesn't matter how long you keep trying it, doesn't matter how much you dedicate yourself to shuffling it around and trying different angles. If it doesn't fit, well, it doesn't fit. My greatest wish for you is that this marriage can end as quickly and painlessly as possible. It's not that the peg or the hole are nasty, or bad, or horrible, they're just different. Hugs xxxx |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 5:03:08 GMT -5
The wife stopped by briefly to pick up some things, then said she was heading out again. I asked her when she was coming home, and she said that was on me, and pointed to a letter she'd left on the side table for me. I waited til she left before I read it. (Cliff notes) "Tiger, After our conversation Saturday, I took some time to really think about what's going on with us. I couldn't get past my own hurt to see how much pain you're obviously in. I see it now. You have an incredible amount of built up hurt and resentment that deserve your attention. Right now I think I'm a distraction that is keeping you from being able to start healing. I'm taking the time (her brother) is out of town (until the 17th) to let you breathe, think, process, and start to build yourself back up again. I can be part of that process however you like. I just don't want either of us to be in a toxic situation that sabotages our chance at making things right." My gut says she thinks I'm "going through a phase," and need some time to "snap out of it." Still feel like she's not taking any responsibility. Hope I'm wrong So this is going to be a really fun couples therapy session on Friday. You're right she's not taking any responsibility. That letter was all about what's wrong with you. The flourish of appearing to make a sacrifice and give you room to work out your problems was a nice touch. From this and how you've said the counseling has gone, she sees this counseling as giving you a chance to get your act together. This is how you will save the marriage, by fixing you. My first wife and I were getting ready to go to our counseling one week and she said, "Time to go to your therapist." I think you're in the same boat. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 9, 2016 9:59:04 GMT -5
eternaloptimism, I've wondered for a long while now exactly what she's getting out of this marriage, aside from an identity. Because it really can't be much else, aside from someone to pay attention to her when she decides she wants it.
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 9, 2016 22:06:39 GMT -5
Wife texted that her aunt's father had passed away and she was heading up there. She needed to stop by and pick up some things. Came in, said hi, grabbed a dress, and left. I wonder what she'll tell the rest of her family at the funeral. I don't really care, I'm just curious.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 10, 2016 8:49:32 GMT -5
Wife texted that her aunt's father had passed away and she was heading up there. She needed to stop by and pick up some things. Came in, said hi, grabbed a dress, and left. I wonder what she'll tell the rest of her family at the funeral. I don't really care, I'm just curious. My guess would be she's in denial of the whole thing, except for one part , you. That you need to change and live on her terms, and do things her way. She will give generic nothing, avoiding answers, and continue in her controlling world. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 10, 2016 8:54:42 GMT -5
Wife texted that her aunt's father had passed away and she was heading up there. She needed to stop by and pick up some things. Came in, said hi, grabbed a dress, and left. I wonder what she'll tell the rest of her family at the funeral. I don't really care, I'm just curious. My guess would be she's in denial of the whole thing, except for one part , you. That you need to change and live on her terms, and do things her way. She will give generic nothing, avoiding answers, and continue in her controlling world. We'll see if that flies in therapy on Friday. She left the torn up pieces of the homework she wrote down- I'll be bringing those with me as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 10:20:35 GMT -5
My guess would be she's in denial of the whole thing, except for one part , you. That you need to change and live on her terms, and do things her way. She will give generic nothing, avoiding answers, and continue in her controlling world. We'll see if that flies in therapy on Friday. She left the torn up pieces of the homework she wrote down- I'll be bringing those with me as well. Torn up homework? That says a lot. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 10, 2016 10:24:00 GMT -5
We'll see if that flies in therapy on Friday. She left the torn up pieces of the homework she wrote down- I'll be bringing those with me as well. Torn up homework? That says a lot. That was from Friday, when she was mad at me for going out instead of staying in with her. After she told me to go. That was also the night she fled to her brother's house. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 10, 2016 10:29:07 GMT -5
Torn up homework? That says a lot. That was from Friday, when she was mad at me for going out instead of staying in with her. After she told me to go. That was also the night she fled to her brother's house. Sounds like a handy one sided alibi for her to dump on her brother. " I ask him to stay at home and at least spend a little time with me. But no...he is always going out drinking with his friends and chasing women!" |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 10, 2016 10:35:48 GMT -5
That was from Friday, when she was mad at me for going out instead of staying in with her. After she told me to go. That was also the night she fled to her brother's house. Sounds like a handy one sided alibi for her to dump on her brother. " I ask him to stay at home and at least spend a little time with me. But no...he is always going out drinking with his friends and chasing women!" I honestly have no clue what she's told her family- I really don't care, either. I know she's worried about what I've told my friends and family, and with whom I've had these conversations. And, to quote an old sci-fi show, seeing as understanding is a three-edged sword, the only one who really has the potential to get to the real truth will be our counselor- if my wife lets that happen. |
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