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Post by unmatched on Aug 6, 2016 16:56:57 GMT -5
I must admit I am finding it hard to get my head around this one. I get her coming home depressed and wanting you to stay and to go and there being no right answer. But leaving with a suitcase seems like a very active thing to do. Where is she? Did she tell you? And has she gone off on her own before?
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 6, 2016 18:37:33 GMT -5
She's at her brother's house- he lives not too far away, and flew to Europe for a cycling trip for the next week and a half, so she could stay there the whole time. Not sure yet how long she will stay there, at this point. She's mad at me for going out last night, even though she told me to, because she "hoped you'd choose me instead."
I brought up the depressed/ going to see a counselor thing again. Again, she blew up. I finally got out of her though that the reason why she won't go see a counselor is because it'll cost her $140/ visit (her old one, the one we went to the one time) due to her insurance changing, and she refuses to go see another one, because she doesn't want to. Then, she told me it would just be easier for her if I went to my therapist, then came home and told her what we had talked about, and we could work on it from there. So, I told her about us talking about her depression, her migraines, and her refusing to acknowledge either. She changed the subject and told me she'd literally talk about anything else aside from that.
So we talked for a good bit about communication, and went over our homework questions for therapy (she was upset about me going out last night, and actually tore the pages out of the notebook she'd written them down in, and torn them up and threw them in the trash), and actually had a fairly reasonable conversation going. However, she kept coming back again and again to wanting things to be fixed *now*, without letting this counseling process work itself.
And then she started fishing. Mentioning things about the house "if you're going to be moving out." I didn't bite. Finally, she asked me what I really wanted. I told her for us to both be happy. She asked what about being happy, with her. I said I'd like that, but I don't know if that's possible.
And then she left. In tears. Again. We didn't even talk about the "why," the complete and utter lack of intimacy of any kind at all.
This is fun.
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Post by nyartgal on Aug 6, 2016 18:59:50 GMT -5
Your wife should get an award for her innumerable excuses. It's nice to see at least she puts some energy into SOMETHING.  Marriage does not obligate you to suffer while someone refuses to do even the minimum to help herself. Unfortunately, there is no sign things would be different if you waited a day, a week, a year, a decade to leave this mess. From what I can gather, there is not one sign she has any potential to improve. My ex went into a deep depression too, maybe somewhat more functional on the outside, at least after the first year, but emotionally he was frozen in his paralysis of anger and denial. For all I know he still is. I'M SURE GLAD I DIDNT WAIT. I'm sorry you have to go through this but I think the clarity she is proving you is extremely lucky. |
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Post by unmatched on Aug 6, 2016 19:46:23 GMT -5
She is a mess right now. And not willing to take responsibility for any of it. She is mad at you for going out but won't acknowledge her part in that. She wants everything fixed but doesn't want to do the work. And she won't even go near her own emotional state which is one of the key contributors to your situation. So you are stuck. And until that changes and she is willing to play an active and grown up role in all of this I can't see how it can possibly change.
It is like she is just waiting for you to move out but can't bring herself to do anything about it.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 6, 2016 20:05:38 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I get the sense that she thrives on conflict, and stirs it up when there isn't any. I.e., she's not interested in a fix, she just wants to fight about the problem. Maybe an inaccurate read from afar. You're in a better position to gauge.
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 6, 2016 20:24:42 GMT -5
It is like she is just waiting for you to move out but can't bring herself to do anything about it. Quite honestly, that's what it feels like. Because then I get to be the bad guy, she gets to be the victim, and our separate camps circle the wagons around us. She brought up about how she thought my parents were "on her side" when we were talking this afternoon. |
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Post by baza on Aug 7, 2016 1:10:20 GMT -5
You are going to have to mandate the end of this.
Your individual counselling may be of great value in helping you to manage the emotional side of that process.
Your lawyer ought be of great value in managing the logistical side of it.
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It isn't going to be much fun, but your missus has behaved herself in to a position of irrelevancy as far as your future goes.
Do you see any upside in letting the situation stagger on until she becomes completely irrelevant ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 9:24:50 GMT -5
Oh total bullshit. She says go out but means stay in. She's testing you, and you can't possibly pass because she means the opposite of what she says. My first wife did this. No.
She's avoiding therapy. You are not her shrink. She needs to see a professional, not discuss your therapy sessions. Which by the way would be less effective since you would be filtering yourself because you know you'll have to repeat everything to her. She didn't mean it anyway. When you did try to talk she refused! OMFG.
You cannot fix things right now. It will take years if ever to restore this marriage. Here is the pudding wherein lies the truth. You know that the probability of turning this into a happy relationship - if she is not 150% committed to do whatever it takes - is zero. Not small, not vanishingly small, not infinitesimal, zero. And she's not on board.
I'll tell you one armchair shrink thing I know is true: when you talk and talk and talk and you talk some more and nothing changes, it has flatlined. It's over. Fixing it isn't an option. The options are to leave or live in an unhappy marriage for the rest of your life. A lot of people choose the latter option, which is a valid choice. I couldn't do that though. Could you? I kind of doubt it. Your user name says it all.
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 7, 2016 9:44:03 GMT -5
"I don't want to lose you," she said yesterday as we were talking. Meanwhile, I've been screaming, "these are the things you need to do and I need to do to make this work," and she's refusing even to consider them.
This is gonna be a fun couple's session later this week.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 7, 2016 14:09:04 GMT -5
"I don't want to lose you," she said yesterday as we were talking. Meanwhile, I've been screaming, "these are the things you need to do and I need to do to make this work," and she's refusing even to consider them. This is gonna be a fun couple's session later this week. "She's refusing to consider them" - that speaks volumes! "I don't want to lose you"- what do you want CT? I always said if I had divorce papers in one hand and my pussy in the other and told me H to eat up or sign then he would sign and I know that for sure however he was not capable of pulling the plug on the relationship nor would he want to because he benefitted from it. So I went to one session of marriage counseling in order to transition him for the divorce and I worked towards making my life what I want it to be. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 17:09:08 GMT -5
"I don't want to lose you," she said yesterday as we were talking. Meanwhile, I've been screaming, "these are the things you need to do and I need to do to make this work," and she's refusing even to consider them. This is gonna be a fun couple's session later this week. People who don't want a divorce will often say things like this, even more, I'm not giving up, I'll do whatever it takes to save this marriage, on and on. Except they don't. She's probably telling the truth here. She may really not want to lose you. But this is just a statement of her wishes, not a demonstrable effort to address any of the issues. As such it is not very relevant to solving the marriage. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 8, 2016 19:47:24 GMT -5
The wife stopped by briefly to pick up some things, then said she was heading out again. I asked her when she was coming home, and she said that was on me, and pointed to a letter she'd left on the side table for me. I waited til she left before I read it. (Cliff notes)
"Tiger,
After our conversation Saturday, I took some time to really think about what's going on with us. I couldn't get past my own hurt to see how much pain you're obviously in. I see it now. You have an incredible amount of built up hurt and resentment that deserve your attention. Right now I think I'm a distraction that is keeping you from being able to start healing. I'm taking the time (her brother) is out of town (until the 17th) to let you breathe, think, process, and start to build yourself back up again. I can be part of that process however you like. I just don't want either of us to be in a toxic situation that sabotages our chance at making things right."
My gut says she thinks I'm "going through a phase," and need some time to "snap out of it." Still feel like she's not taking any responsibility. Hope I'm wrong
So this is going to be a really fun couples therapy session on Friday.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 8, 2016 20:12:47 GMT -5
She doesn't want to" sabotage the chance of you seeing the light"! More fancy words again, instead of straight talk. More manipulative controlling through avoidance, finger pointing, blame shifting, and trying to make you feel guilty. While she takes Zero percent of any blame!
Be strong, don't take the bait. Don't get back on that hamster wheel!
" I can be part of that process however you like" translation: as long as everything is done my way.
Treat that note as gold! Bring it with you to counciling . Quote it to her. Watch the total denial avoidance, silence, tears, then anger over it. Then let it go, it's not your problem.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 8, 2016 20:50:01 GMT -5
cagedtiger, translating / distilling her note further... "You have issues. I'm not running away, nope - I'm 'giving you space' to work It out and get over it. Call me when you're fixed." I.e., "You have baggage. I'm not responsible for this situation, or fixing it."
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Post by baza on Aug 8, 2016 21:07:00 GMT -5
Actually, this version of Zipcode therapy is a fucking good idea.
Such a break could be a godsend, allowing you both to concentrate on your individual issues, and then, at a future date, when you are both individually prepared, to then thrash out a joint resolution.
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Where that will probably fuck up though, is that she won't do her part.
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In any event, you continuing on your individual counselling and self examination is going to help you reach a greater state of clarity.
I can't see a downside in this.
But I'd be making the "distance" longer than the 17th August.
90 days minimum would be good.
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