carpy
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Post by carpy on May 20, 2022 17:31:42 GMT -5
I'm a new member though I have been following since the ep days. I remember googling sexless marriage and finding the forum and feeling so blessed to realize that I was not alone and so many other people were living the same life I was. I remember specifically a post called "All that glitters.." I believe written by a woman who chronicled all the things she had tried to cope with her sm. I read that one many times.
I have been married 23 years and have 2 kids in their 20s. Like a lot here, the sex was great at first, but once kids came it became weaponized. She withheld saying I wasn't romantic enough, I resented her for withholding, do I probably wasn't feeling very romantic. Eventually we fell into a situation where I would try to check all the boxes she said she wanted, cleaning the house, buying her gifts, being romantic...all hoping for the pay off, but usually one thing would be wrong, or I would say or do something wrong to piss her off and that would be her reason for not "being in the mood"
In the last 5 years or so I have stopped trying. I am kind and nice to her, I have just come to realize that what I do or do not do doesn't really matter. This has always been a her problem. So we are what I would define as sexless- less than 10 times a year, usually she initiates by saying "why don't you ever seduce me/touch me/want me" ignoring the 50 times that week that I hugged, kissed and told her I loved her. Then it is 5 minutes of missionary and on with our day.
I have a lot of the post sex blues, because these 10 instances of reset a year always spark my hope that we can have a fun, shared exciting sex life, but then another 5 weeks of being ignored. I cope by having lots of sex with my self, buying sex toys to use on me and reading this forum. My question is does anyone else have a partner that seems to sense when you are just about to completely lose interest and then comes with reset sex in hand? I think it is almost more difficult than no sex sometimes because it is like suffering the loss over and over again every 5 weeks
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Post by worksforme2 on May 20, 2022 17:59:41 GMT -5
I don't know if I exactly meet the criteria you are asking about. My X would come to me almost exactly every 3 months and announce she was "in the mood". She never ask me if I was. You could have planned it to within a couple days if you cared to. And you are right, it did make things more difficult in many ways.
I never used any toys on myself. All the toys were for her.
The funny thing was that she seemed to really enjoy the copious amount of time I spent doing foreplay and oral on her. But so did I. That's one of the things that kept me why chasing. If she enjoyed the intimacy as much as she seemed to, why did she say "no" for all those weeks in between?
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Post by jim44444 on May 20, 2022 18:40:07 GMT -5
carpy if your kids are in their 20s and your sex life is miserable what keeps you in the relationship?
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carpy
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Post by carpy on May 20, 2022 19:20:59 GMT -5
carpy if your kids are in their 20s and your sex life is miserable what keeps you in the relationship? I still love her. She was abandoned by her father and when at her worst she says someday I will leave her like everyone else. I just dont think I could live with myself as the person that did that to her. I think I am too attached to being a good guy and if I left her to pursue more sex on my life that somehow would make me a bad guy. I wonder if the sex would be worth the guilt I would feel. I also have been like this so long I have doubts that anyone would even want to have sex with me if I was back out there. Also financial reasons. Right now I'm not miserable enough to blow up my life I guess....but I know that every year of this makes me smaller and less. |
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Post by hanamidreaming on May 20, 2022 20:34:37 GMT -5
So we are what I would define as sexless- less than 10 times a year, usually she initiates by saying "why don't you ever seduce me/touch me/want me" ignoring the 50 times that week that I hugged, kissed and told her I loved her. Then it is 5 minutes of missionary and on with our day. Hi, carpy, nice to meet you. If you’ll indulge my soapbox tangent a minute, choreplay—the advice to do the dishes or whatever so that your spouse will sleep with you—really pisses me off; I don’t know where women got the idea that this kind of transactionality is okay, but they need to give it back, because they tar the rest of us women with the misogyny born of men feeling used. Sex between adults is a totally different negotiation than household maintenance. Crossing the streams is at best manipulative and at worst infantilizing, like promising Johnny an ice cream if he does his homework, and I think the “sexperts” who recommend it as an easy solution are lazy thinkers. (I know, there’s age play and role play and situations where manipulation is consensual…but this doesn’t sound like that.) Okay, soapbox stowed. The line I quoted above stuck out to me in your post; language is my day job, and what you said suggests a possible slippage of terms: you define seduction as indicated by hugging/kissing/I love yous, but she defines it as maybe something else. Would it be worth sitting her down for a conversation about what she means by “seduction” in that context? Because she may actually be missing the fact that you are approaching her with intent. The two of you might even need to agree on appropriate language/action that means “I’m seducing you now”, sort of the opposite of a safe word. I don’t want to imply that she’s obtuse, but we all come into a relationship with a limited vocabulary about romance and sex, and sometimes it takes years to realize all the players aren’t on the same wavelength about the definitions and boundaries of those terms. |
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Post by mirrororchid on May 23, 2022 6:26:30 GMT -5
carpy if your kids are in their 20s and your sex life is miserable what keeps you in the relationship? I still love her. She was abandoned by her father and when at her worst she says someday I will leave her like everyone else. I just don't think I could live with myself as the person that did that to her... You don't have to leave her to get more sex. Open marriages work for some folks. Yours may need to work that way. Instead, my wife chose to triple our frequency. The nuke sometimes often (always?) needs to be armed and ready to drop before a refuser budges. |
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Post by mirrororchid on May 23, 2022 6:31:42 GMT -5
So we are what I would define as sexless- less than 10 times a year, usually she initiates by saying "why don't you ever seduce me/touch me/want me" ignoring the 50 times that week that I hugged, kissed and told her I loved her. Then it is 5 minutes of missionary and on with our day. Would it be worth sitting her down for a conversation about what she means by “seduction” in that context? Because she may actually be missing the fact that you are approaching her with intent. The two of you might even need to agree on appropriate language/action that means “I’m seducing you now”, sort of the opposite of a safe word. I don’t want to imply that she’s obtuse, but we all come into a relationship with a limited vocabulary about romance and sex, and sometimes it takes years to realize all the players aren’t on the same wavelength about the definitions and boundaries of those terms. This. I asked the same question at length on the duplicate of this thread. The concern about getting analytical is it has the risk of appearing transactional as well. If I do A,B,C, we'll do the deed. It has to be that way. But actually saying it out loud can be a total mood killer. It can become thoughts of 'he's doing A,C,D, and H' in order to get in my pants. Honestly, am I just meat to him?' Refusers can resent the demonstrations of affection/attraction. To use a technical term: it's fucked up. So, I agree with the need for clarity, but the direct approach can have its drawbacks. I wish it weren't so, but if you have a partial map of the minefield, life is better. |
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lonelycat
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by lonelycat on May 25, 2022 12:10:50 GMT -5
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Post by sadkat on May 25, 2022 22:42:53 GMT -5
Thank you for pulling all these links together! This post is a keeper! |
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carpy
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Post by carpy on May 27, 2022 16:43:41 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing these. They are a real treasure. I have been looking gor "All that glitters for years" |
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carpy
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Post by carpy on May 28, 2022 6:54:32 GMT -5
So we are what I would define as sexless- less than 10 times a year, usually she initiates by saying "why don't you ever seduce me/touch me/want me" ignoring the 50 times that week that I hugged, kissed and told her I loved her. Then it is 5 minutes of missionary and on with our day. Hi, carpy, nice to meet you. If you’ll indulge my soapbox tangent a minute, choreplay—the advice to do the dishes or whatever so that your spouse will sleep with you—really pisses me off; I don’t know where women got the idea that this kind of transactionality is okay, but they need to give it back, because they tar the rest of us women with the misogyny born of men feeling used. Sex between adults is a totally different negotiation than household maintenance. Crossing the streams is at best manipulative and at worst infantilizing, like promising Johnny an ice cream if he does his homework, and I think the “sexperts” who recommend it as an easy solution are lazy thinkers. (I know, there’s age play and role play and situations where manipulation is consensual…but this doesn’t sound like that.) Okay, soapbox stowed. The line I quoted above stuck out to me in your post; language is my day job, and what you said suggests a possible slippage of terms: you define seduction as indicated by hugging/kissing/I love yous, but she defines it as maybe something else. Would it be worth sitting her down for a conversation about what she means by “seduction” in that context? Because she may actually be missing the fact that you are approaching her with intent. The two of you might even need to agree on appropriate language/action that means “I’m seducing you now”, sort of the opposite of a safe word. I don’t want to imply that she’s obtuse, but we all come into a relationship with a limited vocabulary about romance and sex, and sometimes it takes years to realize all the players aren’t on the same wavelength about the definitions and boundaries of those terms. Thanks for the thoughtful comments. We have had years of individual therapy and recently couples therapy where I laid out clearly my desires for more sex and intimacy and she described what she needs and means by romance. I set out to meet those needs but keep coming up against what I now understand to be an almost self loathing on her part that keeps her pushing me and any attempt at meeting her needs away and then gaslighting me as to why she is doing it - Im not reading the room, im not doing it right, i waited until it was too late at night etc.etc. It feels like she is rejecting me, but now I think she simply doesn't love herself enough to want pleasure, or the alternative is everything she said in therapy was just another story to hide from dealing with what is really going on. To be honest, at this point I am pretty exhausted with trying to navigate all this. A little sex hardly seems worth all the trouble. |
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heelots
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Post by heelots on May 28, 2022 8:47:31 GMT -5
Hi, carpy, nice to meet you. If you’ll indulge my soapbox tangent a minute, choreplay—the advice to do the dishes or whatever so that your spouse will sleep with you—really pisses me off; I don’t know where women got the idea that this kind of transactionality is okay, but they need to give it back, because they tar the rest of us women with the misogyny born of men feeling used. Sex between adults is a totally different negotiation than household maintenance. Crossing the streams is at best manipulative and at worst infantilizing, like promising Johnny an ice cream if he does his homework, and I think the “sexperts” who recommend it as an easy solution are lazy thinkers. (I know, there’s age play and role play and situations where manipulation is consensual…but this doesn’t sound like that.) Okay, soapbox stowed. The line I quoted above stuck out to me in your post; language is my day job, and what you said suggests a possible slippage of terms: you define seduction as indicated by hugging/kissing/I love yous, but she defines it as maybe something else. Would it be worth sitting her down for a conversation about what she means by “seduction” in that context? Because she may actually be missing the fact that you are approaching her with intent. The two of you might even need to agree on appropriate language/action that means “I’m seducing you now”, sort of the opposite of a safe word. I don’t want to imply that she’s obtuse, but we all come into a relationship with a limited vocabulary about romance and sex, and sometimes it takes years to realize all the players aren’t on the same wavelength about the definitions and boundaries of those terms. Thanks for the thoughtful comments. We have had years of individual therapy and recently couples therapy where I laid out clearly my desires for more sex and intimacy and she described what she needs and means by romance. I set out to meet those needs but keep coming up against what I now understand to be an almost self loathing on her part that keeps her pushing me and any attempt at meeting her needs away and then gaslighting me as to why she is doing it - Im not reading the room, im not doing it right, i waited until it was too late at night etc.etc. It feels like she is rejecting me, but now I think she simply doesn't love herself enough to want pleasure, or the alternative is everything she said in therapy was just another story to hide from dealing with what is really going on. To be honest, at this point I am pretty exhausted with trying to navigate all this. A little sex hardly seems worth all the trouble. I think you are in an endless game where she will never stop moving the goal post. Part of the game is claiming whatever you do in trying to placate her and meet her requirements for the admission price of the ride always requires just a little bit more. You are almost there, don't give up, just a bit more of this, that, and whatever other asinine crap she can cook up. Take heart, at least you now understand the most important rules in the game. I played the game myself for a while until I grew tired of it and stopped. Once I stopped I mentally made my wife my room mate and declared the game over. In the end she won, she gets to let her coochie just dry out and shrivel up which I think must be exactly what she wanted in the first place. Best of luck to you brother! BTW: You are correct, a little sex (probably bad sex) is not worth the price! |
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Post by DryCreek on May 28, 2022 13:49:12 GMT -5
carpy, many similarities with my situation; I’m a few years further down the road in my SM, so I’ll offer you a preview of what may come… A sense of regret at not realizing your potential for an intimate relationship. Maybe frustration knowing that so many other women wish for the affections that your wife sees as a liability. A realization that retirement is on the horizon, which means a lot more time with someone who expects you to be a companion but also platonic. Filling your life with outside interests to the point that you’re “ships in the night” that share a residence. If these don’t sound likely, or if you can find a way to be at peace with them, then more power to you for staying the course. Alternatively, this might be fuel for effecting change sooner instead of coping. DC
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Post by mirrororchid on May 30, 2022 5:56:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. We have had years of individual therapy and recently couples therapy where I laid out clearly my desires for more sex and intimacy and she described what she needs and means by romance. I set out to meet those needs but keep coming up against what I now understand to be an almost self loathing on her part that keeps her pushing me and any attempt at meeting her needs away and then gaslighting me as to why she is doing it - I'm not reading the room, I'm not doing it right, i waited until it was too late at night etc. etc. It feels like she is rejecting me, but now I think she simply doesn't love herself enough to want pleasure, or the alternative is everything she said in therapy was just another story to hide from dealing with what is really going on. To be honest, at this point I am pretty exhausted with trying to navigate all this. A little sex hardly seems worth all the trouble. There is the possibility it's an earnest belief that she is capable of physical ignition. She knows she was once. It must be something you're doing wrong. Doesn't it? Responsive desire is a thing and just beginning is the entirety of the "gift" she offers, to her mind. She isn't desiring it? She will at some point, she's sure of it! At some point, it doesn't much matter, if you're feeling teh effort isn't worth the intimacy. I tried everything Mrs. MirrorOrchid asked and she admitted she didn't know why nothing worked. Bless her, she hated it too. What worked was giving her a deadline when I would open our marriage. Not a threat, just an explanation that sexual intimacy was a part of my life I wanted too much to go without. I hoped we could together, but I'd be getting some, somewhere. The reset is over two years now. It seems to be a part of most resets. Very few get persuaded without the third party being raised as a possibility. Mrs. MirrorOrchid said she'd divorce me. I called her bluff. She folded. And we're both happier for it. I don't know how important the deadline was for her decision, but it made sexlessness far less awful. Misery that you know will end isn't the same. If you do decide to set a date for your freedom, you'll want to get some legal prep taken care of, as Baza wisely reminds us. I did not prepare and got lucky. If Mrs. Mirror orchid had thrown the grenade, my mental state might have been badly hampered for arranging a fair settlement. Better to know what a fair settlement is before someone serves papers. |
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Post by DryCreek on May 30, 2022 18:36:45 GMT -5
There is the possibility it's an earnest belief that she is capable of physical ignition. She knows she was once. It must be something you're doing wrong. Doesn't it? I think you’re right that refusal in many cases isn’t conscious or manipulative or evil. They’re convinced that they’re capable of being aroused sexually, so when the refuser isn’t in the mood they grasp for reasons that their spouse must be to blame, “moving the goalposts”. After all, they have supporting evidence: they *are* sexually aroused by others, whether a fictional character in a book, a celebrity, porn, co-worker, AP, etc. An enlightened perspective, once you can cut through the pain… it doesn’t matter why, and it doesn’t matter who’s to blame. What matters is that it’s broken, despite you (and perhaps them) trying to be the very best version of yourself. Whether each of you might fuck like rabbits with anyone else is irrelevant - between the two of you, it’s not working. At the end of the day, *that’s* the real issue. DC |
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