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Post by catlover on Feb 19, 2021 21:08:51 GMT -5
Hi All, new here but been reading through a lot of the posts. It strikes me immediately that, wow, I am not alone, although my situation is a little different to those I have been reading about.
I have been married for coming up 39m years. Sex with the wife was lousy since about 2010 or so, hard to tell, this has a way of creeping up on you I suppose. Then about 6 years ago it finally dried up after a somewhat disastrous attempt (by me) to ignite a spark. It just felt like i was using her body to masturbate. Finally she admitted that, No, she doesn't really want to "do it", in discussion she then says that she never really enjoyed it anyway. Jesus, that hurt, I was mistakenly under the impression that she was into it as much as I was, little adventurous as well. Then, she was diagnosed with a rare, progressive, and ultimately terminal illness. Of course she doesn't want to do it now. Fuck it, I know she is ill but this dumb idiot still holds onto the hope that things may change. Fat chance! Taken me a long time to come to the acceptance that things will never change, my feelings are so mixed though. I still want her, but I would settle for ANY physical affection. More talks and fights, the frustration, resentment and anger builds up to bursting point, we then fight and have a frank discussion and then fuckall changes and the cycle begins again.
Finally reached breaking point again a few weeks back after ongoing rejection, shoving my hand or arm away if I even approached any of the "forbidden zones" (Holding a boob would be awesome). I finally managed to get it into her skull that, no, I don't want sex from her (although if the opportunity came up I definitely wouldn't refuse), but ffs all I want from her is some physical AFFECTION, hugs and cuddles and kisses (and I resolved to take care of the rest myself) I get cuddles now but the resentment is still below the surface.
I have had a couple affairs, very unsatisfying though, although it was great to be with a woman who actually liked and wanted sex, I want a "normal" relationship where we can go out together and have fun and not have EVERYTHING revolve around sex (sounds dumb, right!)
I can't leave the marriage, it would be totally reprehensible to leave a sick and (slowly) dying wife, but this is driving me crazy to the point of near obsession, I really don't know what to do anymore, should I turn to frequenting sex workers (yes I have used them on occasion and there is one woman I feel comfortable with)
Anyone else in a similiar boat (I probably haven't done a great job of explaining everything well)
Edit; Just wanted to add she has had no interest in couples counselling or even, really addressing the real elephant in the room. Also has talked repeatedly about a (alleged) abuse incident when she was a child.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 19, 2021 21:26:29 GMT -5
Welcome. I'm sorry you are in this situation.
If I may be so blunt, how "slowly" is she dying? I think it makes a difference in your strategy.
I'm very sorry she is ill.
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Post by petrushka on Feb 19, 2021 21:44:24 GMT -5
A friend of ours was told by the doctors "sorry Penny, you have melanoma for the third time, and it's spread throughout your body, there's nothing we can do for you any more." So she simply up and left her husband. Didn't matter that he was absolutely heartbroken. She just, I don't know, didn't want to be tied down to this bloke for her last few months, and didn't give a fig for his feelings. Gone. Yes, you feel like a callous shit, leaving someone on their own who is dying. What regard does that dying person give to you? Does the fact that they suddenly know the when as being sooner rather than later give them a get out of jail free card in terms of not putting due care into their relationship? Do they get a free pass to be a completely self centered millstone around your neck? Which, maybe, they had already turned into before the news hit anyhow, just sayin'. That are just some thoughts your post inspired. I myself found myself in a moral dilemma when my ex-girlfriend (and the 'love of my life') came down with schizophrenia, a year after we had parted ways. I went back and cared for her ... for a while. She said she didn't want to get back together again, and I was on my way out of the country, but ... leave a loved one in a situation like that? She was not even the same person any more after the disease took her. I was distressed, absolutely crushed. But also, relieved not to be stuck caring for her for decades. Some times life's just shit, never mind which direction you walk in.
Don't know; I haven't really any solutions to offer, just some thoughts. My feeling is that if the other person doesn't want to put anything in, then really, they don't actually deserve a full commitment either, unless you want to martyr yourself. But we all have to make that call for ourselves.
)* footnote: A few weeks after her walk-out we heard that Penny had just dropped dead in main street in a 300km distant town: brain aneurysm. Fate can play funny tricks on you.
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Post by baza on Feb 19, 2021 21:58:10 GMT -5
There is a respected Brother in here. His handle is obobfla See how his name in the line above appears in light blue ? If you were to click on that it would take you to his profile page and from there you can find every thread and post he's made. All about his marriage, his missus' illness and ultimately her passing. There may be some value in you reading his stuff. Maybe shoot him a private message. This bit in your story - "I can't leave the marriage, it would be totally reprehensible to leave a sick and (slowly) dying wife" - is worth examining. I am not recommending you do this (leave the marriage) but you *could*. You don't have to be married to someone to be a supportive and empathetic factor in their life. Again, not saying you do this, but it is important to know that you *could*, and that thought in and of itself can be helpful in dealing with these sort of situations. Meantime, welcome to the group Brother catlover .
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Post by obobfla on Feb 20, 2021 1:10:35 GMT -5
My name was mentioned catlover, so here is my experience. I lost my wife three years ago. She was mentally ill before she became physically ill. The mental illness made her paranoid so that she became scared of having sex and getting pregnant after the birth of our son. I had a few affairs too, but she was too sick to divorce. Eventually, she got breast cancer and a weak heart, and she succumbed after nine months of hospitalization. When she finally died, I went through an emotional blender. I was shocked at first, then angry we had to go through this. Then I felt relief, finally free of my burdensome marriage. Then came the guilt for feeling relieved. I recovered from the guilt to be angry at myself, asking why I tolerated such a miserable marriage for so long. I still go through the blender, but mostly I deal with the empty space where she used to exist. We had a son together, and whenever there is a highlight in his life, there is sadness that she’s not there to see it. If there is a major difference between my situation than yours, it is that I didn’t know until the last month that she would die. For the nine months she was in the hospital or rehab center, it was a roller coaster ride whether she would make it or not. At least both you and she know, and you can have those difficult discussions. You can find a hospice, help her plan her funeral, and deal with whatever children or relatives there are. You might even get a chance to resolve some of your resentment before she dies, which will help a lot. But you came here asking about your sexual relationship. While your wife may still be alive, it’s apparent that your sexual relationship with her is dead. She is still your life partner for the past 40 years, and she could use your help leaving this world. But she is only your wife in the legal sense. If you can, talk to her about your need to move on and find somebody else. Forgive yourself and forgive her before she dies if you can. She might give you her blessing to find someone else before she leaves. As for what anyone besides you and her think, forget it! It’s your grief, not theirs. But I see a bigger issue in finding that next partner. You could use someone to comfort you not just sexually but emotionally as well. But while you may be able to satisfy your partner’s sexual needs, it’s going to be difficult giving that woman any emotional commitment. Your wife is dying, and you are grieving. You’re going to need space. I briefly considered polyamory, which is a fancy way of saying an open relationship. But I realized that I only have the energy to handle one woman at a time. Your experience may vary. I was fortunate to find someone two months after my wife’s death who wanted a sexual relationship but gave me the space to grieve. It’s not the best sex I ever had, but it is wonderful to have guilt-free sex with a woman who actually wants me. I hope you can find somebody like that. For now, look to grief support and widows groups. Although I am not a churchgoer, I find that religious establishments know how to deal with death really well. Check in with the chaplain at your wife’s hospital or hospice. You will need all the emotional support you can get.
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Post by catlover on Feb 21, 2021 20:35:46 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your reply, it really means a lot to me. I don't know how much longer she has, she was told about 18 months to 2 years when she was diagnosed about 6 years ago, and she is still carrying on. I find myself wishing, often, please just move on, let me recover my life. Our sex life was dead long before she was diagnosed with this disease and I find myself very resentful at how the last 10 to 12 years of my life have been essentially wasted. I had a mistress for a while, till I essentially fucked things up by still feeling too sexually attracted to my wife and letting my feelings be known to her. I'm still friendly with the lady, I am hopeful of resurrecting that relationship again, will see how it pans out. What I really need to say is thank you for opening my eyes and making merealize it is time to look after me. To stop huminilating myself and being hopeful of some crumbs
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Post by saarinista on Feb 21, 2021 20:48:49 GMT -5
It sounds like your wife might benefit from a second opinion so you both know what her care and course of illness will involve.
I was struck by your use of the word "mistress, " which one doesn't often hear any more. What does being a mistress involve? Were you her "master?" 😏
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Post by catlover on Feb 21, 2021 20:57:06 GMT -5
HaHa, no, just a mistress as in affair lol. Sorry, British english can be quite different at times
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Post by obobfla on Feb 21, 2021 21:57:13 GMT -5
Although you say your wife was diagnosed six years ago and is still alive catlover, how is her life right now? Is she disabled or able to take care of herself? Are you in the USA and she is relying on your health insurance? I ask because you will need to budget yourself as your wife’s health deteriorates. There is only so much you can do. If she is terminal, she may be eligible for hospice care. In the US, hospice care is free of charge and opens a lot of services for both you and her. Take advantage of them. After my wife died, I questioned whether I did all I could for her. My head said yes, but part of me said no. Facing death requires brutal but compassionate honesty. A lot of us use euphemisms such “passed away” or “gone to the other side,” but grief counselors use the d-words of death and die to counteract the denial. Your wife is going to die. Guess what? You’re going to die too, maybe before she does. I get that you spent almost 40 years with her. Resolve your resentments. Say oodbye to her as a lover and help her die as a lifelong friend. You have your life to live. I’m glad that you are still friendly with your former mistress, but your wife’s illness may scare her away. Once again, be honest with yourself and her.Tell her what you need and what you can provide for her emotionally. We widowers run into two main types. A lot of women don’t know what to say to a widower and are scared of getting involved with him. Then there are the co-dependent types who who want to take care of the grieving man to the point of smothering him. Many of these are widows themselves. My mother-in-law lives in a retirement community. She told me that when a woman dies and leaves behind a husband, the “casserole brigade” of widows lines up at the grieving man’s doorstep hoping to woo the widower with food. If you’ve read my past posts, you will know that I would give anything to have my wife alive but to be divorced from her. We could talk about our son and how he is growing up. I could make sure she is okay and help her when I can. I’m sure she is fine wherever she is, but I can’t tell her now.
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Post by jerri on Feb 22, 2021 0:51:58 GMT -5
People do some strange things when they are dying and I noticed that they are very cranky. Some even withdraw and are very silent, especially in the end. (I researched the steps.) They are downright mean, nice, and giving all on the same day. I can't blame them. Their life is upside down and they are really lost. Lots of good posts.
I am so glad you have found your way to others to get your needs filled. I do exactly the same. Your needs are just going to be very different from hers and I moved in with my terminally ill brother. Mostly during the beginning, I just left and went to get shagged. I really needed to get my stress in check. That's what I did and it really helped to escape because my brother was very hard to take care of as time progressed. My brother also knew what I was doing and encouraged me to get out and recharge my batteries. I would say do the same. We're here for you, destress, stay well. 💛 I like that you do take care of yourself! Bravo
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 22, 2021 2:59:49 GMT -5
It's not often we have a member here who is still sexually attracted to his spouse after 30+ years of marriage. I mean it in a good way. She must be very dear to you. I also take it that you don't have children to help take care of her through her terminal illness. It must be very tough on you to handle this alone.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 22, 2021 7:01:11 GMT -5
Finally reached breaking point again a few weeks back after ongoing rejection, shoving my hand or arm away if I even approached any of the "forbidden zones" (Holding a boob would be awesome). I finally managed to get it into her skull that, no, I don't want sex from her (although if the opportunity came up I definitely wouldn't refuse), but ffs all I want from her is some physical AFFECTION, hugs and cuddles and kisses (and I resolved to take care of the rest myself) I get cuddles now but the resentment is still below the surface. I have had a couple affairs, very unsatisfying though, although it was great to be with a woman who actually liked and wanted sex, I want a "normal" relationship where we can go out together and have fun and not have EVERYTHING revolve around sex (sounds dumb, right!) I can't leave the marriage, it would be totally reprehensible to leave a sick and (slowly) dying wife, but this is driving me crazy to the point of near obsession, I really don't know what to do anymore, should I turn to frequenting sex workers (yes I have used them on occasion and there is one woman I feel comfortable with) Anyone else in a similar boat? (I probably haven't done a great job of explaining everything well) ... Everyone said a lot of good things. When my wife was refusing constantly, I started planning to date and then dated platonically a few times. When I resolved to outsource, I decided to love my wife in every way she wanted. This struck me as being as loving a husband as I could without being celibate. I would be abundantly affectionate in situations where nookie wasn't on the table. (out on an errand, leaving for work) to separate affection from sex. Perhaps your wife could enjoy this. Perhaps she wants to be left alone (the crankiness mentioned before). When deciding to outsource, I'd determined that if my celibacy was mandatory, she could divorce me and be honest with herself what she was doing. Instead, she seemed to have discussed it with a therapist and reset hard. (When I was found out, I denied nothing, so she knew my intention to outsource the part of our marriage that she didn't want. I suspect the therapist asked her if she'd lost her mind thinking I'd be faithful while clocking in at four times a year.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 13:03:46 GMT -5
I have not shared your situation other than being married for 31 years with a dwindling sex life that was never fulfilling to me and now gone completely.
Here's how I have coped with a lack of all physical affection that you describe, maybe something will be helpful for you.
I think of my wife's lack of desire for sex, and her general discomfort with almost all things that are physically/emotionally close, like I think of height or foot size. She can't change it. Setting aside the "could she change for someone else" arguments, it's really just something I have to live with or leave. There are quite a few of us in the 55+ type category and any window of opportunity is diminished. I'm really happy for those who have made big changes or made it to another post-SM relationship but the opportunities for that are, not to be too blunt, much less than if I were a 30-year old.
Holding on to any notion of a turnaround or a shift in the status quo is what causes resentment. I am mostly not resentful anymore because I no longer expect hand holding, an initiated hug, a pat on the shoulder let alone sex. I moved out of the bedroom into my own and we have a non-romantic, companionship-type marriage. It's what I've got and I essentially have recently gotten pseudo-comfortable with the notion that I'll likely never have sex again.
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Post by catlover on Feb 22, 2021 17:05:07 GMT -5
Although you say your wife was diagnosed six years ago and is still alive catlover , how is her life right now? Is she disabled or able to take care of herself? Are you in the USA and she is relying on your health insurance? I ask because you will need to budget yourself as your wife’s health deteriorates. There is only so much you can do. If she is terminal, she may be eligible for hospice care. In the US, hospice care is free of charge and opens a lot of services for both you and her. Take advantage of them. After my wife died, I questioned whether I did all I could for her. My head said yes, but part of me said no. Facing death requires brutal but compassionate honesty. A lot of us use euphemisms such “passed away” or “gone to the other side,” but grief counselors use the d-words of death and die to counteract the denial. Your wife is going to die. Guess what? You’re going to die too, maybe before she does. I get that you spent almost 40 years with her. Resolve your resentments. Say oodbye to her as a lover and help her die as a lifelong friend. You have your life to live. I’m glad that you are still friendly with your former mistress, but your wife’s illness may scare her away. Once again, be honest with yourself and her.Tell her what you need and what you can provide for her emotionally. We widowers run into two main types. A lot of women don’t know what to say to a widower and are scared of getting involved with him. Then there are the co-dependent types who who want to take care of the grieving man to the point of smothering him. Many of these are widows themselves. My mother-in-law lives in a retirement community. She told me that when a woman dies and leaves behind a husband, the “casserole brigade” of widows lines up at the grieving man’s doorstep hoping to woo the widower with food. If you’ve read my past posts, you will know that I would give anything to have my wife alive but to be divorced from her. We could talk about our son and how he is growing up. I could make sure she is okay and help her when I can. I’m sure she is fine wherever she is, but I can’t tell her now. Thanks again all for the words of advice and companionship. To answer these questions specifically, her life is pretty miserable right now, in constant pain, can't eat properly, major GI issues, very weak and can't walk very far. It is fucking miserable. She is mostly still able to take care of herself, except for being able to rub oil or lotion on her back ( gladly do it for her but I start to get a chubby :-) )Being in Canada doctor care and hospital care is included in our taxes, although we have to pay out of pocket of meds. Fortunately the medication she is on (which isn't doing a damn thing for her) is being provided free of charge by the pharma company. I do most of the grocery shopping, I don't mind at all doing it, gets me out of the house for a while. I may have given the wrong impression of her, she is a really good person, makes a lot of effort to cook meals she thinks I will enjoy, even though she can't get much enjoyment from food, tries her best to do housework, and on top of that is heading up an advocacy company and group. Very kind and compassionate. I know I am going to be lost without her, but I need to do what is good for me too, i crave the touch of a woman, touching and being touched, wanting and being wanted, making out, being desired and having fun to look forward to.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 22, 2021 22:02:50 GMT -5
So you've been told she she was dying within 18 months and that was 6 years ago. Meanwhile, she's still well enough to cook and so forth? She's taking drugs which do nothing for her, etc....
This seems strange. Have you spoken with her doctor? Are you sure she's diagnosed correctly?
I know that's not what you're most interested in, but you have to get through her disease and illness before you can make other big moves, really. Seems to me maybe a secind opinion is in order? Just a thought.
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