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New here
Nov 25, 2020 21:42:55 GMT -5
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Post by curious81 on Nov 25, 2020 21:42:55 GMT -5
Mine adored me and loved me as much as he is capable of loving anyone. Just not the way I needed him to. It’s a case of whether that’s enough for you, and only you can know this. Time will help you make a good decision. Just don’t spend too much getting there. I, and many others here took too long with that. I wish you well. I wonder, is it *really* love if your partner isn’t willing to find ways to make the relationship work? I mean, I suppose my spouse is loving. But if I am begging him for help, to meet me half way to sort out our SM (as I did in past; won’t go down that path ever again), and he doesn’t, it’s not just a matter of his inability. Is it not a lack of mutual respect, a lack of consideration for the person who is asking to make change? How are they loving if they completely abandon you? I think he wants to fancy me and make me happy but he doesn’t find me a turn on anymore. He still hugs me when we lay in bed. But you’re right I guess he needs to be open and talk to me. If he doesn’t find me attractive any longer perhaps he should encourage me to leave. I just don’t know, I’m so confused and still in love with him. I still fancy him so much. I believe porn is probably what’s ruined it. The last time we had sex (1.5 years ago) we were on holiday and he couldn’t watch porn openly because we we’re together in the same room. I work in a hospital and so he has lots of time to watch it  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 21:53:09 GMT -5
Mine adored me and loved me as much as he is capable of loving anyone. Just not the way I needed him to. It’s a case of whether that’s enough for you, and only you can know this. Time will help you make a good decision. Just don’t spend too much getting there. I, and many others here took too long with that. I wish you well. I wonder, is it *really* love if your partner isn’t willing to find ways to make the relationship work? I mean, I suppose my spouse is loving. But if I am begging him for help, to meet me half way to sort out our SM (as I did in past; won’t go down that path ever again), and he doesn’t, it’s not just a matter of his inability. Is it not a lack of mutual respect, a lack of consideration for the person who is asking to make change? How are they loving if they completely abandon you? ... I came to feel the same way. My ex had some sort of affection for me. I'm sure he appreciated the life I afforded him, and I'm absolutely certain he did not want to ever be single again. For sure he loved being married (b/c he was then no longer single). But truly love ME? His actions (or lack thereof) left me wondering and doubting and eventually pushed me over the edge to call it quits. I guess it's possible he really did, in his own way, but I just couldn't see how he could if, when he saw how badly I was hurting, he wasn't willing to really do anything of significance about it. |
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Post by TMD on Nov 25, 2020 22:01:30 GMT -5
I think @whynotm3 is on to something with respect to the porn addiction.
Two things:
1. A national radio broadcast had a great show on porn and its impact. A young man, early twenties, discussed his addiction and its impact on his relationship. He said that he loved his girlfriend, but couldn’t have sex with her. I believe porn trained him to objectify women and he couldn’t reconcile a real life intimate relationship as compared to his fantasy porn addiction.
2. My former AP is also in an SM. He is older than me and suffered his SM longer. He turned to porn to make up for the lack of intimacy in his life. When we first had sex he started with the disclaimer that he could do everything but ejaculate. NBD. I like sex and we had fun. He assumed this was because of the porn addiction as he also had a hard time, so to speak, getting hard (so used cialis). Over time, the use of cialis was used only when he was really tired, but still wanted to DTD. Even better? He solved his ejaculation hurdle. Seeing him orgasm was magnificent. :-)
I hazard to guess that porn may be part of the problem for you.
I am sorry you find yourself here. Not being desired is a very lonely place to be.
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Post by curious81 on Nov 25, 2020 22:16:07 GMT -5
Not being desired is a very lonely place to be. [/quote]
It really is lonely. I’m happy I found this site and can see I’m not alone and that we can support one another
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Post by saarinista on Nov 25, 2020 22:29:20 GMT -5
Clearly, the vast majority of people in sexless marriages are SOMEHOW desired by their partners, if only for the money or household services they bring to the relationship, or the way they prevent the hassle of divorce.
But one thing marriage is supposed to be EXCLUSIVELY is the place where you get sex! That's what the majority of people look at it as, at least. Certainly those of us here on ILIASM look at it that way, or we would be out getting laid, instead of writing about our sexlessness on an anonymous internet forum, right?
There are two other things that marriage does exclusively. One it makes you exclusively, legally responsible for the other person's debt. Also, it makes you responsible for children in the marriage. There are exceptions to those rules, but kids, money and sex are generally implicit in a marriage.
Hence, the huge problem that comes up when our partners unilaterally decide they don't want to have sex anymore. We who still want it are left in the lurch!
Now of course if our partners decide they don't want kids or if we're not satisfied with the money they bring in those are other reasons to divorce I suppose. Or we can rather easily decide to fulfill our desires for kids and money elsewhere while remaining married.
For example my husband didn't want kids so I'm babysitting 2 adorable neighborhood tykes right now. It's a real enjoyable thing at age 60! (I'm not being snide. It is fun.) It also brings a little bit of money into the relationship rather than making my husband solely responsible for that.
But the problem of not being able to get SEX somewhere else without fear of hurting his feelings as well as being labeled a home wrecker, harlot, etc- (and possibly being labeled those things LEGALLY in the state of North Carolina, and perhaps a few other jurisdictions in the United States as well) remains.
The point I'm making is that your spouse may enjoy your bringing some money or kids or your household skills into a marriage, but it's all pretty lame if they don't want to have sex-unless they give you carte blanche to get it somewhere else. Personally, I think refusers SHOULD so grant that. It's odd that society hasn't yet universally figured this out.
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Post by curious81 on Nov 25, 2020 23:43:07 GMT -5
point I'm making is that your spouse may enjoy your bringing some money or kids or your household skills into a marriage, but it's all pretty lame if they don't want to have sex-unless they give you carte blanche to get it somewhere else. Personally, I think refusers SHOULD so grant that. It's odd that society hasn't yet universally figured this out.
I live in London (UK). I have asked my partner what he would think of me having sex with someone else and explained I really miss intimacy. He became angry and said he’s tired from work and blames it on stress. He always acts like he’s going to work on it and it will go back to normal but nothing has changed. When I try to talk about it he always finds a reason why it’s not a good time and says we can talk about it in the evening or the weekend but he never does. I have such shame around it all I don’t bring it up that often.
I will look for a counsellor. I’ve never spoken to anyone about it before but reading people’s experience’s here it sounds like a good thing to do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 0:01:17 GMT -5
I live in London (UK). I have asked my partner what he would think of me having sex with someone else and explained I really miss intimacy. He became angry and said he’s tired from work and blames it on stress. He always acts like he’s going to work on it and it will go back to normal but nothing has changed. When I try to talk about it he always finds a reason why it’s not a good time and says we can talk about it in the evening or the weekend but he never does. I have such shame around it all I don’t bring it up that often.
This is something I don't think I'll ever understand. Sex is not important to the refuser, not even crossing his or her mind, until: - The refused asks for it, at which point it's suddenly a major inconvenience even to the point of creating anger or shame
- The refused asks for it elsewhere, at which point the refuser is shocked that the refused wants to stray from the marriage with perceived infidelity
In a way it reminds me of the "reality distortion field" that was described in the Steve Jobs biography. Some people just have their own versions of reality when it comes to certain topics, and I think this pertains to sex for a lot of refusers.
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Post by sadkat on Nov 26, 2020 0:13:32 GMT -5
Not being desired is a very lonely place to be. It really is lonely. I’m happy I found this site and can see I’m not alone and that we can support one another [/quote] You are most definitely not alone. All of us on this forum have experiences that are somewhat different but we have the SM in common. I don’t think your h finds you unattractive at all. He finds you unfuckable. There’s a big difference here. His interest in sex lies with porn and that is all-consuming. You and your needs no longer fit in his sex life. I’m sorry if this seems blunt. I failed to see this for years. I tried everything to get my h to respond to my pleas for intimacy. Instead, we grew further apart, he became more aggressive and demanding, and I turned into someone I no longer recognized. After 23 years, I finally broke and realized I could not fix this- only he could. And, he obviously wasn’t interested in doing so. I have no doubt in my mind that he loved me but he just wasn’t capable of giving me what I needed. I understand what you mean when you say you really love him. You likely always will. The question you’ll need to answer is - will it be enough? Your love for him won’t stop him from watching porn. It won’t bring back the intimacy you need. It is gone. You will not get it back no matter what you do. I’m sorry to be harsh again. I just don’t want you to waste the years I wasted hoping things can change if only you could find the magic formula. So, if you’ve been reading the posts here, you’ll have realized that your choices are limited. You can stay and accept that you will no longer be intimate with your h, you can stay and find intimacy outside of your marriage, or you can walk away. I’m sorry you find yourself here- none of this is easy. You’ll find lots of support here. |
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 26, 2020 1:54:07 GMT -5
When I try to talk about it he always finds a reason why it’s not a good time and says we can talk about it in the evening or the weekend but he never does. I have such shame around it all I don’t bring it up that often. I will look for a counsellor. I’ve never spoken to anyone about it before but reading people’s experience’s here it sounds like a good thing to do. There’s a dilemma we all struggle with... if you speak up too often, they shame you for being sex-obsessed and claim you’re creating stress that fuels the problem. But if you don’t speak up enough, they feign ignorance, pretend like everything’s peachy, and you let their bad behavior become established as the new normal. One thing this group will help you achieve... normal conversations around something we’ve been conditioned to treat as a taboo and shameful topic. And a sense of sanity that you’re not in this alone. There’s also a truism you’ll see here that’s important for both personal mental health and pursuing a fix... you cannot fix them; only they can fix themselves. You cannot barter, threaten divorce, or cajole them into being genuinely motivated. You can’t even make them admit there’s a problem. All this is on them, and once they genuinely want to work on a fix, it takes a lot of focused effort for any hope of progress. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 26, 2020 11:01:50 GMT -5
A quick question. Since the drop off in intimacy came about somewhat quickly and given his age it might not be a bad idea to have his hormones checked. There are a # of hormonal issues which could result in a reduction of libido. Eliminating possible physical causes would be where I would start. He still watches porn a lot. I can see the way he looks at women. I know he still has a sex drive - just not with me. I guess that’s why it’s hurting right now Is he usually checking out 30 and unders? If so, maybe you take it a bit less personally? (not that you should at all, but if youth is a requirement of his, it may help you make decisions in as much as Ponce De Leon never came through with the whole getting younger thing.) If he needs youth to feel attraction (fetish), he needs therapy, or you need an alternate plan. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 26, 2020 11:27:25 GMT -5
... your spouse may enjoy your bringing some money or kids or your household skills into a marriage, but it's all pretty lame if they don't want to have sex-unless they give you carte blanche to get it somewhere else. Personally, I think refusers SHOULD grant that. ... I live in London (UK). I have asked my partner what he would think of me having sex with someone else and explained I really miss intimacy. He became angry and said he’s tired from work and blames it on stress. He always acts like he’s going to work on it and it will go back to normal but nothing has changed. When I try to talk about it he always finds a reason why it’s not a good time and says we can talk about it in the evening or the weekend but he never does. I have such shame around it all I don’t bring it up that often. I will look for a counsellor. I’ve never spoken to anyone about it before but reading people’s experience’s here it sounds like a good thing to do. Care to be a guinea pig? An unwelcome discussion wherein you explain to your refusing spouse that the time for involuntary celibacy has come to an end is referred to in SM circles as "The Talk" (quotes included) I made a thread about it: iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talkPerhaps you'll have some suggestions to improve it, or tell me it's useful? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 12:14:16 GMT -5
"I just don’t want you to waste the years I wasted hoping things can change if only you could find THE MAGIC FORMULA." I've been on the receiving end of sadkat's directness many times and I'm grateful for all of it!! I'd much rather feel the sting of the truth than be temporarily comforted by a lie. What sadkat says - very bluntly - is 100% true. She has spoken many truths that I needed to hear; truths that stung initially, but eventually moved me forward and got me 'unstuck' from that limbo state of indecision. That infamous search for the magic formula ... ugh ... when I read that, it hit me hard and took me back to a very uncomfortable and stressful period in my life. The 'magic formula' (as we're hoping for) doesn't exist, I'm sorry to say. Either they change, or they won't. Either you accept, or you don't. Hard as I tried to walk the middle ground and pursue solutions upon solutions, they all fell short, and I grew more miserable and confused and heartbroken. I came to realize what I needed most, more than my marriage to this man, more than answers to all the "why's" I had, was peace. I chose peace. I surrendered, let go of dreams I had to live happily ever after, and made my peace and my heart my priority. Some things are absent now in my life that I miss, but I still - one year later - have no regrets. I chose me and I continue to choose me. There's a peace there that no one else can give to me. |
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Post by sadkat on Nov 26, 2020 15:19:26 GMT -5
Thank you for softening the blow @whynotm3! 😬. It’s the only way I’m committed to being these days. I am no
longer willing to take the soft approach. Thankfully my good friends are supportive😊
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 26, 2020 16:00:32 GMT -5
I live in London (UK). I have asked my partner what he would think of me having sex with someone else and explained I really miss intimacy. He became angry and said he’s tired from work and blames it on stress. He always acts like he’s going to work on it and it will go back to normal but nothing has changed. When I try to talk about it he always finds a reason why it’s not a good time and says we can talk about it in the evening or the weekend but he never does. I have such shame around it all I don’t bring it up that often.
This is something I don't think I'll ever understand. Sex is not important to the refuser, not even crossing his or her mind, until: - The refused asks for it, at which point it's suddenly a major inconvenience even to the point of creating anger or shame
- The refused asks for it elsewhere, at which point the refuser is shocked that the refused wants to stray from the marriage with perceived infidelity
In a way it reminds me of the "reality distortion field" that was described in the Steve Jobs biography. Some people just have their own versions of reality when it comes to certain topics, and I think this pertains to sex for a lot of refusers.
A nasty double edged sword.....Using sex to control you, or the complete opposite (and just as destructive) using the withholding of sex against you. |
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New here
Nov 26, 2020 16:33:55 GMT -5
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Post by curious81 on Nov 26, 2020 16:33:55 GMT -5
Reading everyone’s replies has helped so much.Thank you! I guess I knew deep down the sex was over and it’s incredibly unlikely to return. Urgh I need to think long and hard. I’m not sure if I can live without him, but when I think about us I always imagine how it used to be. When I think about how it is now it’s very sad! |
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