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Post by tesseract on Nov 15, 2020 17:12:50 GMT -5
I thought I would make my own post here now as I've been reading for a bit. I am 42 years old and have been living in a sexless marriage for roughly the last 4 years, married for 8. My wife and I have known each other for 20 years, we dated for a year after we first met, but ended up breaking up after trying to make a long distance relationship work. It was amicable and we just acknowledged it wasn't the right time since we couldn't live near each other. We got back together 10 years later as we were geographically closer. I would drive up to her place on weekends (2 hours) and then back to where I was in professional school on the weekdays. We had sex every weekend 1-2 times and it was always mutually satisfying. We got engaged about 18 months and sex definitely seemed to drop in frequency after I proposed, but I don't remember the actual frequency so I can't say what sort of drop it was. We almost didn't have sex on the honeymoon (she claims this was because she was really constipated, sorry if thats TMI), but things picked back up again after we moved in together. Sex during pregnancy wasn't too frequent, but I understand that some women have raging libidos while pregnant and some have the opposite, so thats neither here nor there. Sex to conceive and sex in between conceptions was still reasonably frequent. Since the birth of our second daughter 5.5 years ago, the frequency has just fallen off a cliff to the point that 4-5.5 years ago, we had sex maybe once every 2-3 months, except the times that she wanted to try and have a 3rd child. When that didn't work, sex is now on average twice per year, and its a no-foreplay, 5 minutes missionary (not quite starfish level though). She clearly has no interest in it, and I do not want anything to do with duty sex. It makes me feel like I am sexually assaulting her. This has been going on for years at this point. I feel like I am just a live in handyman, here to help around the house and we share finances and raise our girls. I have tried to be patient with her over the years. I never get angry, never try to pressure her or guilt her into sex. I invite her to do things like take showers together, I give her hand and foot massages on the couch, I hug her a lot, tell her she is beautiful, I give her back massages, all without making any sexual overtures to her if she accepts. She knows how frustrated I am with the lack of sex and how important to me in maintaining our physical and emotional intimacy. She says it frustrates her too if I bring it up, but she never gives any other indication that she cares at all that such an important aspect of our marriage has been excised like a tumor. Long story short, I wrote her a letter a few days ago that stated how much I needed her help, that I was floundering mentally and felt that the marriage was coming to its end unless we could figure out some solution to this. I told her that I loved her but I could not live the life of a eunuch with a woman who did not seem to have any interest in me. I'm a good looking guy, who is responsible, makes good money, and is devoted to his family. I have tried over the years to engage her and take stock of the marriage, asking how I can better meet her needs and how I can help more around the house to ease her stress and the answer is always that I am doing fine. There is just no sexual desire on her part. She doesn't fantasize, she doesn't think about sex, nothing.
She says her OB/GYN and Therapist (that she started seeing for work stress) said that its just a phase of life that she is going through, but its been years and her marriage is about to end. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for her, but just needed to vent. I'm going to try and talk to her tonight to better understand her side of this, but I am worried that we will not even agree on the actual problem. Based on the response letter she wrote to me, I think she views the problem as my unhappiness at the lack of physical intimacy rather than the lack of physical intimacy itself. If we can't agree that lack of a sex life in an early 40s couple is a problem, I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I cannot continue to live my life feeling so lonely, unwanted, and unconnected to my beautiful wife. I would rather be along. Frankly, I would have forced this issue a long time ago if we didn't have young daughters and I hate the thought of what a divorce would do to them and the reduction in time I would have with them. But, if we can't fix this, I believe as much as that will suck, its more important to teach them what a good relationship looks like and how not to tolerate bad relationships.
Thanks for listening and reading.
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Post by TMD on Nov 15, 2020 21:25:47 GMT -5
So here you are. We are a well-experienced group of sexless marriage persons.
I have two thoughts, based on hindsight:
1. I would have started having direct conversations much sooner. Still don’t know what I was afraid of.
2. Ask yourself if this relationship is what you want to model for yoke children? This is my biggest regret. Should have left a long time ago. I would not want to see my kids in a relationship like this. If it’s not, then somethings got to give.
Wishing you the best.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 15, 2020 23:23:41 GMT -5
Welcome, tesseract. I understand the need to vent. Steve Jobs used to ask himself every day if today was the last day of his life, would he want to be doing what he was doing. If the answer was "no" for too many days in a row, he knew something needed to change. It's ok to vent, but, take some time for introspection. The path you take is your choice, but if you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to keep feeling what you are feeling.
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Post by baza on Nov 16, 2020 0:49:36 GMT -5
Hello Brother tesseract . If you've been reading in here a bit you'll be aware of the 3 choices you've got ahead of you. Welcome to the group. There's something about your post that reminds me of Brother shamwow , so I suggest you look up his post titled "T Minus" and read it through from the first post, and the update posts he added to it as he embarked on his journey forward. You may find some helpful stuff in it.
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Nov 16, 2020 6:46:22 GMT -5
I have tried over the years to engage her and take stock of the marriage, asking how I can better meet her needs and how I can help more around the house to ease her stress and the answer is always that I am doing fine. There is just no sexual desire on her part. She doesn't fantasize, she doesn't think about sex, nothing. She says her OB/GYN and Therapist (that she started seeing for work stress) said that its just a phase of life that she is going through, but its been years and her marriage is about to end. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for her, but just needed to vent. I'm going to try and talk to her tonight to better understand her side of this, but I am worried that we will not even agree on the actual problem. Based on the response letter she wrote to me, I think she views the problem as my unhappiness at the lack of physical intimacy rather than the lack of physical intimacy itself. Thanks for listening and reading. I'm sorry you're here but you're welcome and I hope this place might help with finding the solutions that work for you.
It sounds as though you already have done a lot of reading and thinking before posting here. It also sounds like you already understand this is simply who your wife is and that you are sexually incompatible. Can you see yourself accepting that or are you still hoping this will all pass and she'll want a mutually fulfilling relationship with you in the future?
It seems like your wife has at least been honest with you in saying she doesn't see the lack of physical intimacy as the problem, but rather your unhappiness with that situation? She says you are doing fine in every other way apart from being terribly unhappy over the lack of sex? Would she be okay with living without any sexual relationship at all and would she be okay with you being increasingly lonely in your marriage?
It's a question worth asking of our refusing spouses; how much of our unhappiness can they tolerate?
Her therapist could be right in that this is all a phase of life and perhaps her stress levels make it impossible for her to give any bandwidth to physical intimacy but all of that is not your responsibility. Your needs matter too.
I hope that you've been having a genuinely honest conversation with her and she is willing to work with you on finding a way forward.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 16, 2020 6:59:29 GMT -5
I cannot continue to live my life feeling so lonely, unwanted, and unconnected to my beautiful wife. I would rather be alone. Frankly, I would have forced this issue a long time ago if we didn't have young daughters and I hate the thought of what a divorce would do to them and the reduction in time I would have with them. But, if we can't fix this, I believe as much as that will suck, its more important to teach them what a good relationship looks like and how not to tolerate bad relationships. Divorce is one way to get physical intimacy with someone else. Not the only one. You are in better condition than I was when I came here. You still treat your wife very well. You are at a state of heartbreak and frustration but not anger and resentment. That's great news. I was not as level headed as you. After four years of quarterly sex, I had "The Talk". Explaining, like you, that celibate life was not acceptable and "this will not stand." When nothing changed I started researching online dating and set up a profile at OKcupid to see whether there was any interest. (Was I kidding myself that a sexual existence was even possible?) Things were tense, but she knew she didn't have a leg to stand on. When she got therapy for an unrelated reason, she shared my exploits with her therapist and shortly thereafter she reset and we're still good, as surprising as that is. I ended up never having to be intimate with anyone else. The planets aligned. If you divorce, you'll be having sex with another woman. If you open your marriage, you'll be having sex with another woman. Same result. Question is, would it make for a satisfactory life for you, to supplement your marriage? Would your wife tolerate it? If not, will she divorce over it? If so, is that also an acceptable outcome? (Mandatory Baza disclaimer: check your legal position if you're going to go there.) Personally, I sought out only married women to reduce the possibility of dating someone who'd want to break my marriage up to have me all to her little 'ol self. Stringing a FWB along would be an unkind thing to do, so it was never part of the plan. You also don't have to justify yourself to married women. Or, at least, not nearly to the degree you otherwise might feel the need to.
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Post by tesseract on Nov 16, 2020 9:56:51 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses everyone. We had a good discussion last night and I am more hopeful today than I was yesterday. I asked her a series of questions to see if we had common ground in assessing our problem. So given that my wife was a sexual person in the past, I don't believe she could suddenly become asexual (maybe she can), so my thought process was that the loss of libido was related to either a) marital discontent or b) something medical/hormonal. I asked her if she was harboring any resentment towards me for anything I had done or hadn't done in the marriage and she gave me an emphatic "no". While I was in my residency year, she expressed a concern that she needed more help around the house, so I started doing more cooking, walking the dog, helping with laundry, doing dishes, getting groceries, etc... and she does most of the laundry and school coordination and things like that. She said she is really happy with how we help each other and feels that I do a lot around the house. I also asked her if she felt loved and suggested we talk about her love language. She said she does feel loved and loves me, but her mind and body are not cooperating. I asked her if she ever fantasized about sex at all and she kind of sadly laughed and said no. I asked her when the last time she touched herself was and she said she had no idea, it had been years. She said she has talked to her OBGYN and Therapist about the lack of libido and they even talked about HSDD and possible management of it. I also asked her the most important question I had about whether or not she viewed the problem as a lack of sex or as my unhappiness at lack of sex. She answered that because of how her brain was working right now, she was more upset about how unhappy I am because she knows it is her fault (her words), but she also knows that lack of sex is a problem and she wants to get her libido back, but doesn't know how. It seems frustrating for her as well, and I told her we needed to communicate more openly about it and be more proactive searching for a resolution. I know it won't be fixed overnight, but if we both recognize that sex and intimacy are a good thing in a marriage and we are united in finding a solution, than I can handle the sexlessness for a while longer. It seems like we are on the same page after our discussion last night, but time will tell. For what its worth, to clarify, she has always enjoyed sex in the past. The last few years are a marked deviation from the woman I knew for the 16 years before that. Her skin used to be so sensitive that she loved to be touched and could have orgasms easily. Now, she can't bear to have those areas touched because she says its physically uncomfortable. So I do think there is some physical/hormonal change or imbalance there. The important thing for me seems to be that she says she wants to get her libido back and wants to have sex like we used to. So I have hope currently. She is seeing her OBGYN again this Friday and is going to discuss this topic again. In the meantime, I saw this place which isn't all that far from us. She said she would be willing to try so I sent her the link so she can read up about it. www.mazewomenshealth.com/
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Post by tesseract on Nov 16, 2020 10:05:28 GMT -5
So here you are. We are a well-experienced group of sexless marriage persons. I have two thoughts, based on hindsight: 1. I would have started having direct conversations much sooner. Still don’t know what I was afraid of. 2. Ask yourself if this relationship is what you want to model for yoke children? This is my biggest regret. Should have left a long time ago. I would not want to see my kids in a relationship like this. If it’s not, then somethings got to give. Wishing you the best. Thank you TMD. I agree that I should have started the conversations awhile ago. We have discussed it in the past, but I never pushed for a resolution and she never really opened up about it. I just knew it was "something that she didn't really think about." I should have delved into it a lot more back then. I knew she didn't want to feel pressured to have sex, so I tried to give her as much space as I could. I would just invite her into the shower or offer massages or even ask if she wanted to have sex and I wouldn't push or get upset when she said no. No, I would not want to model a dysfunctional relationship to my children. It would be really tough to lose time with them, but would teach them a valuable lesson. I think this marriage can still be saved, but I should have pushed for therapy or open discussions years ago, instead of quietly stewing inside.
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Post by tesseract on Nov 16, 2020 10:07:52 GMT -5
Welcome, tesseract . I understand the need to vent. Steve Jobs used to ask himself every day if today was the last day of his life, would he want to be doing what he was doing. If the answer was "no" for too many days in a row, he knew something needed to change. It's ok to vent, but, take some time for introspection. The path you take is your choice, but if you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to keep feeling what you are feeling. Thanks Ironhamster, that was the impetus for me writing the letter to her to open up honest communication. My mental state was declining to the point that I needed to force some radical change before I exploded. It has affected my work and even can make me short tempered with the kids. The status quo is no longer an option. Either we are working together to fix it or we are planning for our divorce at this stage.
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Post by tesseract on Nov 16, 2020 10:11:56 GMT -5
I cannot continue to live my life feeling so lonely, unwanted, and unconnected to my beautiful wife. I would rather be alone. Frankly, I would have forced this issue a long time ago if we didn't have young daughters and I hate the thought of what a divorce would do to them and the reduction in time I would have with them. But, if we can't fix this, I believe as much as that will suck, its more important to teach them what a good relationship looks like and how not to tolerate bad relationships. Divorce is one way to get physical intimacy with someone else. Not the only one. You are in better condition than I was when I came here. You still treat your wife very well. You are at a state of heartbreak and frustration but not anger and resentment. That's great news. I was not as level headed as you. After four years of quarterly sex, I had "The Talk". Explaining, like you, that celibate life was not acceptable and "this will not stand." When nothing changed I started researching online dating and set up a profile at OKcupid to see whether there was any interest. (Was I kidding myself that a sexual existence was even possible?) Things were tense, but she knew she didn't have a leg to stand on. When she got therapy for an unrelated reason, she shared my exploits with her therapist and shortly thereafter she reset and we're still good, as surprising as that is. I ended up never having to be intimate with anyone else. The planets aligned. If you divorce, you'll be having sex with another woman. If you open your marriage, you'll be having sex with another woman. Same result. Question is, would it make for a satisfactory life for you, to supplement your marriage? Would your wife tolerate it? If not, will she divorce over it? If so, is that also an acceptable outcome? (Mandatory Baza disclaimer: check your legal position if you're going to go there.) Personally, I sought out only married women to reduce the possibility of dating someone who'd want to break my marriage up to have me all to her little 'ol self. Stringing a FWB along would be an unkind thing to do, so it was never part of the plan. You also don't have to justify yourself to married women. Or, at least, not nearly to the degree you otherwise might feel the need to. No, I would never go outside the marriage for sex, even if I asked my wife and she agreed to it. Years ago when we were talking about her lack of sex drive, she even told me that sometimes she thought I should have an affair to get the need met even if it would break her heart. I was married once before when I was younger. I was with this person for 3 years before we got married and then found out she was cheating on me 3 months into our marriage. The pain was immense and I could never inflict what I felt on another person. I understand that such a situation could work for some, but for me, I would sooner divorce and look for another relationship that could meet all my needs. I'm glad you never had to commit to that route and your marriage has improved!
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Nov 16, 2020 10:48:16 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses everyone. We had a good discussion last night and I am more hopeful today than I was yesterday. I asked her a series of questions to see if we had common ground in assessing our problem. So given that my wife was a sexual person in the past, I don't believe she could suddenly become asexual (maybe she can), so my thought process was that the loss of libido was related to either a) marital discontent or b) something medical/hormonal. I asked her if she was harboring any resentment towards me for anything I had done or hadn't done in the marriage and she gave me an emphatic "no". While I was in my residency year, she expressed a concern that she needed more help around the house, so I started doing more cooking, walking the dog, helping with laundry, doing dishes, getting groceries, etc... and she does most of the laundry and school coordination and things like that. She said she is really happy with how we help each other and feels that I do a lot around the house. I also asked her if she felt loved and suggested we talk about her love language. She said she does feel loved and loves me, but her mind and body are not cooperating. I asked her if she ever fantasized about sex at all and she kind of sadly laughed and said no. I asked her when the last time she touched herself was and she said she had no idea, it had been years. She said she has talked to her OBGYN and Therapist about the lack of libido and they even talked about HSDD and possible management of it. I also asked her the most important question I had about whether or not she viewed the problem as a lack of sex or as my unhappiness at lack of sex. She answered that because of how her brain was working right now, she was more upset about how unhappy I am because she knows it is her fault (her words), but she also knows that lack of sex is a problem and she wants to get her libido back, but doesn't know how. It seems frustrating for her as well, and I told her we needed to communicate more openly about it and be more proactive searching for a resolution. I know it won't be fixed overnight, but if we both recognize that sex and intimacy are a good thing in a marriage and we are united in finding a solution, than I can handle the sexlessness for a while longer. It seems like we are on the same page after our discussion last night, but time will tell. For what its worth, to clarify, she has always enjoyed sex in the past. The last few years are a marked deviation from the woman I knew for the 16 years before that. Her skin used to be so sensitive that she loved to be touched and could have orgasms easily. Now, she can't bear to have those areas touched because she says its physically uncomfortable. So I do think there is some physical/hormonal change or imbalance there. The important thing for me seems to be that she says she wants to get her libido back and wants to have sex like we used to. So I have hope currently. She is seeing her OBGYN again this Friday and is going to discuss this topic again. In the meantime, I saw this place which isn't all that far from us. She said she would be willing to try so I sent her the link so she can read up about it. www.mazewomenshealth.com/I'm truly glad to read that your discussion went well. If both of you love each other and are committed to finding solutions then there's no reason to give up hope. From my own experience, regularly scheduled check in discussions are helpful for keeping that commitment on track. I know it might seem like an odd thing to do but having ongoing 'talks' has been instrumental in improving my relationships long term. Don't allow too much time to go by without 'checking in' with each other. Set aside the time and try not let anything derail this process; life will get in the way so reschedule immediately if that happens. It sounds like you and your wife can communicate lovingly and effectively and that is a great thing! I tell my husband all the time that we should be proud of ourselves for how far we've come. Give yourself and your wife credit when it's due. Well done on taking steps in a happier direction.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 16, 2020 11:43:51 GMT -5
I've been a believer that the most important part of the troubleshooting process is to define the problem. That overshadows one thing, though, and that is the first step of recognizing that a problem exists. At least you are both there.
The communication is a good start. It's not a good sign that she only sees your unhappiness about the lack of intimacy as a problem. At least she does see a problem.
Congratulations, also, on getting her to look into the low sex drive issue. That may or may not be the problem, but at least she is receptive to the idea.
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Post by alwaysdenied on Nov 16, 2020 13:44:13 GMT -5
I wish you the best. My wife recognizes it as well and gives great lip service towards being sexual. But it's always in the future, when the now comes... that's when the excuses arise. I'm with you about not outsourcing and I've decided to stay for a few years to see my kids off to college. The whole cooking/cleaning thing is a trap. The more you give in, the less desirable you are to her. Hopefully you can get it all worked out and fixed. I thought I had a sex problem when in reality it was a much bigger marriage/wife problem.
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Post by isthisit on Nov 16, 2020 16:46:31 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses everyone. We had a good discussion last night and I am more hopeful today than I was yesterday. I asked her a series of questions to see if we had common ground in assessing our problem. So given that my wife was a sexual person in the past, I don't believe she could suddenly become asexual (maybe she can), so my thought process was that the loss of libido was related to either a) marital discontent or b) something medical/hormonal. I asked her if she was harboring any resentment towards me for anything I had done or hadn't done in the marriage and she gave me an emphatic "no". While I was in my residency year, she expressed a concern that she needed more help around the house, so I started doing more cooking, walking the dog, helping with laundry, doing dishes, getting groceries, etc... and she does most of the laundry and school coordination and things like that. She said she is really happy with how we help each other and feels that I do a lot around the house. I also asked her if she felt loved and suggested we talk about her love language. She said she does feel loved and loves me, but her mind and body are not cooperating. I asked her if she ever fantasized about sex at all and she kind of sadly laughed and said no. I asked her when the last time she touched herself was and she said she had no idea, it had been years. She said she has talked to her OBGYN and Therapist about the lack of libido and they even talked about HSDD and possible management of it. I also asked her the most important question I had about whether or not she viewed the problem as a lack of sex or as my unhappiness at lack of sex. She answered that because of how her brain was working right now, she was more upset about how unhappy I am because she knows it is her fault (her words), but she also knows that lack of sex is a problem and she wants to get her libido back, but doesn't know how. It seems frustrating for her as well, and I told her we needed to communicate more openly about it and be more proactive searching for a resolution. I know it won't be fixed overnight, but if we both recognize that sex and intimacy are a good thing in a marriage and we are united in finding a solution, than I can handle the sexlessness for a while longer. It seems like we are on the same page after our discussion last night, but time will tell. For what its worth, to clarify, she has always enjoyed sex in the past. The last few years are a marked deviation from the woman I knew for the 16 years before that. Her skin used to be so sensitive that she loved to be touched and could have orgasms easily. Now, she can't bear to have those areas touched because she says its physically uncomfortable. So I do think there is some physical/hormonal change or imbalance there. The important thing for me seems to be that she says she wants to get her libido back and wants to have sex like we used to. So I have hope currently. She is seeing her OBGYN again this Friday and is going to discuss this topic again. In the meantime, I saw this place which isn't all that far from us. She said she would be willing to try so I sent her the link so she can read up about it. www.mazewomenshealth.com/Well done on keeping a cool head for your discussion. If my H had had a fraction of the willingness to listen, reflect and emotional intelligence your W has shown here I would have moved Heaven & Earth to make it work, as there clearly would have been something worth saving. She is fortunate to have your love, patience and fidelity. It could be that you guys are the rarest of examples here, where the rest of the marriage is solid aside the from sexlessness. For the majority, my deal included, it is merely a symptom. Even if over time it does not work out the way you hope you can be assured that you left no stone unturned, and that’s very valuable knowledge to move on with. I know this because I live with that reassurance every day. I wish you both well.
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Post by jerri on Nov 16, 2020 17:25:57 GMT -5
Impressive! Way to go! 💙
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