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Post by sadkat on Oct 26, 2020 9:11:55 GMT -5
I'd just add that sorting out your own shit can be enhanced (or hindered) by ones environment. For example, if you are in an ILIASM shithole, your ability to sort out your own shit is somewhat hindered by those circumstances as you have to deal with the spot fires that relationship throws up. And that lessens your time and concentration available to address your own shit. If you are out of your ILIASM shithole, your ability to sort your own shit out is enhanced, as you are not busy engaged in trying to put out the spot fires of an ILIASM deal. Then, of course, the issue may involve a new relationship a bit further down the track. If it does (and that often seems to be the case - take Sisters elynne nyartgal @lonelywify and Brothers shamwow thebaffledking ironhamster as examples) then that new relationship can be a great environment to assist you sort out your own shit. And, I would imagine that if you got into another ILIASM deal, that would NOT enhance your ability to sort out your own shit. What I an suggesting here is that your environment is going to play a major role in you sorting out your own shit. Your environment is either going to help - or hinder - that process. Personally, I think that the environment of being in an ILIASM deal is the worst possible environment to be trying to sort your shit out from. That's not to say that you can't sort your shit out (at least to some extent) whilst in an ILIASM deal. It IS saying that being in an ILIASM deal is going to slow ones progress significantly. That's been my personal experience ... and what I've observed in heaps of stories on this board. Footnote. I was trying to sort my own shit out whilst in my ILIASM deal. Progress was pretty slow. I got out of that in late 2009. Progress in sorting my own shit out took off like a rocket in comparison. Excellent points, Baz. To put matters in perspective, I bought a plane ticket for ballofconfusion to come meet me two days after my divorce was finalized. Wow, that sounds pretty damn quick in retrospect. However, I had "met" her on this very forum around 5 months before my divorce. 6 months before my divorce, this particular alcoholic had his last drink. This is also when I told my now-ex that I was done and was filing for divorce. 8 months before my divorce, I joined this forum. 15 months before my divorce, I confided just how miserable I was to my dad and told him I thought my marriage was over. This, in my head was a turning point. From that point "fixing my marriage" wasn't a priority. "Sorting out my own shit" on the other hand was. 2 years before my divorce, I had picked the tree I sincerely planned on "accidently" wrapping my motorcycle around to ensure my kids would be "taken care of" with the life insurance payout. 3 years before my divorce was the last time I was able to beg my now ex-wife into having sex with me. 5 years before my divorce, I repeatedly had to seek medical attention for stress related episodes (abdominal pain, panic attacks, etc...). 13 years before my divorce, I realized I'd been fooled a second time into thinking my marriage had been recharged when all she wanted was a second child. From that point other than a paycheck, I'd outlived my usefulness. 20 years (to the day) before my divorce I was married to someone who I thought loved me, but from day one, simply used me to further her own ends. My point with all this this: I let things get untenable for a very long time. It is only after I made a conscious decision to focus on improving myself that I began to see improvement in my life at all. Is there still stuff in the basement? Are there still issues, fears, anxieties, and triggers buried within me? You betcha. Hell, ballofconfusion and I spent a couple hours this lovely Sunday afternoon talking aboit one of them today. Sorting your own shit never stops, or at least it shouldn't. It is hideously difficult if you're with someone who keeps heaping fresh shit onto you daily. It is easier to do of if you are alone (even if still married) and can keep the pile from growing, whether through your SM or self-induced drama (affairs, copious numbers of post SM "flings", or other major lifestyle changes not well thought out). It is easiest of all to do if you have a partner who has a shovel and helps you dig your own piles of shit down to size. This approach works best when you've also got a shovel to help your partner work out their shit. And, yes, you are the only one who can work out your shit, but it definitely helps if you have someone safe and secure you can talk things out with. I agree with this completely shamwow. I’m not saying that you should be completely isolated after a divorce in order to sort stuff out. What I am saying is that you must be aware of what drives you and have the strength to create those boundaries that are so important in a relationship. And learning how to talk things out- really being vulnerable and not afraid to speak your truth, whatever that is. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 26, 2020 18:14:19 GMT -5
Before I divorced my ex, I thought long and hard about what I wanted in a partner. Oddly enough, the top thing I required is that she had to know what the A-Team was. Yes, that show from the 80's. She didn't have to be a fan of the show, just have heard of it and maybe seen an episode or two. Why, for the love of God, would this be a show stopper for me? Above specific physical attributes (hair color, height, weight, or other "conventional" criteria)? If I were replying to your ad, I'd tell you basing a relationship on such a trivial matter showed a very bad attitude. Baracus. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 26, 2020 20:16:36 GMT -5
Will someone find you attractive? What qualities are really important now that you’re free? (It’s be easy to rebound with a whole new set of problems because you only focus on what was deficient before.) Do you even remember how to kiss? How often do you really “need” sex, and how much intimacy? Do you have kinks you never realized? All these things and more are discovered through trial and error, and some of them are necessary for the healing and sanity check - and yes, the new relationship may be doomed from the start. Don’t mislead a potential partner, but be comfortable with an awkward recovery period; it’s OK to walk before you learn to run. Once again... you word things so well! I recall having an individual post about every one of these 'new found freedoms' as I shared my 'experiences' in my healing process. A whole new world of doubts, questions, self discovery, risk taking, proceeding with caution, seeking advice, putting myself first-for a change- and really embracing my time alone. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 26, 2020 20:30:58 GMT -5
Before I divorced my ex, I thought long and hard about what I wanted in a partner. Oddly enough, the top thing I required is that she had to know what the A-Team was. Yes, that show from the 80's. She didn't have to be a fan of the show, just have heard of it and maybe seen an episode or two. Why, for the love of God, would this be a show stopper for me? Above specific physical attributes (hair color, height, weight, or other "conventional" criteria)? If I were replying to your ad, I'd tell you basing a relationship on such a trivial matter showed a very bad attitude. Baracus. I think it's healthy to have a level of commonality. The requirement reminds me of a highschool friend I had, that, in college he dated exclusively freshman women. After college, he dated exclusively freshman women. When he was in his mid-thirties, he found some antique 78 speed records, and was explaining his find to his date when her eyes lit up and she exclaimed, "Oh! Those disc things! I've seen pictures of those!!!" That was when he concluded that he had to start dating women his own age. Common roots aren't by any means a universal requirement. I've known plenty of couples with successful relationships that were raised in different cultures with different native languages, but find enough in common to be happy. Dare I say it this close to the election, but I even have a very conservative friend with a very liberal wife, along the lines of Mary Mataline and James Carville, but in reverse. Chemistry is a weird thing. Sometimes opposites attract. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 21:03:31 GMT -5
To put matters in perspective, I bought a plane ticket for ballofconfusion to come meet me two days after my divorce was finalized. Wow, that sounds pretty damn quick in retrospect. However, I had "met" her on this very forum around 5 months before my divorce. 6 months before my divorce, this particular alcoholic had his last drink. This is also when I told my now-ex that I was done and was filing for divorce. 8 months before my divorce, I joined this forum. 15 months before my divorce, I confided just how miserable I was to my dad and told him I thought my marriage was over. This, in my head was a turning point. From that point "fixing my marriage" wasn't a priority. "Sorting out my own shit" on the other hand was. 2 years before my divorce, I had picked the tree I sincerely planned on "accidently" wrapping my motorcycle around to ensure my kids would be "taken care of" with the life insurance payout. 3 years before my divorce was the last time I was able to beg my now ex-wife into having sex with me. 5 years before my divorce, I repeatedly had to seek medical attention for stress related episodes (abdominal pain, panic attacks, etc...). 13 years before my divorce, I realized I'd been fooled a second time into thinking my marriage had been recharged when all she wanted was a second child. From that point other than a paycheck, I'd outlived my usefulness. 20 years (to the day) before my divorce I was married to someone who I thought loved me, but from day one, simply used me to further her own ends. My point with all this this: I let things get untenable for a very long time. It is only after I made a conscious decision to focus on improving myself that I began to see improvement in my life at all.
Inspiring words shamwow. I finally confided in someone how miserable I am too just recently. It's amazing what a mental difference this makes. It's as if saying it out loud to a third party turned it from being ideas in my head to something tangible.
The fact that you went from picking out a tree to crash your motorcycle to meeting a person in a year and a half shows how much progress you made after your turning point. Thanks for sharing this.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 27, 2020 13:26:13 GMT -5
Before I divorced my ex, I thought long and hard about what I wanted in a partner. Oddly enough, the top thing I required is that she had to know what the A-Team was. Yes, that show from the 80's. She didn't have to be a fan of the show, just have heard of it and maybe seen an episode or two. Why, for the love of God, would this be a show stopper for me? Above specific physical attributes (hair color, height, weight, or other "conventional" criteria)? If I were replying to your ad, I'd tell you basing a relationship on such a trivial matter showed a very bad attitude. Baracus. I pity you, fool. |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 27, 2020 13:31:16 GMT -5
To put matters in perspective, I bought a plane ticket for ballofconfusion to come meet me two days after my divorce was finalized. Wow, that sounds pretty damn quick in retrospect. However, I had "met" her on this very forum around 5 months before my divorce. 6 months before my divorce, this particular alcoholic had his last drink. This is also when I told my now-ex that I was done and was filing for divorce. 8 months before my divorce, I joined this forum. 15 months before my divorce, I confided just how miserable I was to my dad and told him I thought my marriage was over. This, in my head was a turning point. From that point "fixing my marriage" wasn't a priority. "Sorting out my own shit" on the other hand was. 2 years before my divorce, I had picked the tree I sincerely planned on "accidently" wrapping my motorcycle around to ensure my kids would be "taken care of" with the life insurance payout. 3 years before my divorce was the last time I was able to beg my now ex-wife into having sex with me. 5 years before my divorce, I repeatedly had to seek medical attention for stress related episodes (abdominal pain, panic attacks, etc...). 13 years before my divorce, I realized I'd been fooled a second time into thinking my marriage had been recharged when all she wanted was a second child. From that point other than a paycheck, I'd outlived my usefulness. 20 years (to the day) before my divorce I was married to someone who I thought loved me, but from day one, simply used me to further her own ends. My point with all this this: I let things get untenable for a very long time. It is only after I made a conscious decision to focus on improving myself that I began to see improvement in my life at all.
Inspiring words shamwow. I finally confided in someone how miserable I am too just recently. It's amazing what a mental difference this makes. It's as if saying it out loud to a third party turned it from being ideas in my head to something tangible.
The fact that you went from picking out a tree to crash your motorcycle to meeting a person in a year and a half shows how much progress you made after your turning point. Thanks for sharing this.
I clearly remember the first time I'd first seriously thought about "not making the turn". I also clearly remember the day the light bulb went off over my head that I could leave. Obviously I knew I could leave previous to that, but I'm more referring to the realization that I owe something to myself as well as everyone else. That realization was actually kind of key to start getting my shit together (and not just with my SM). |
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Post by Handy on Oct 27, 2020 16:10:53 GMT -5
Shamwow, I really likes your time-line post. To put matters in perspective, I bought a plane ticket for ballofconfusion to come meet me two days after my divorce was finalized................................
It is a good example of what happens to SM people before they decide enough is enough or some of the breaking points people face. |
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 27, 2020 21:11:53 GMT -5
If I were replying to your ad, I'd tell you basing a relationship on such a trivial matter showed a very bad attitude. Baracus. I pity you, fool. We know you love it when a plan comes together. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 28, 2020 5:51:53 GMT -5
If I were replying to your ad, I'd tell you basing a relationship on such a trivial matter showed a very bad attitude. Baracus. I think it's healthy to have a level of commonality. The requirement reminds me of a highschool friend I had, that, in college he dated exclusively freshman women. After college, he dated exclusively freshman women. When he was in his mid-thirties, he found some antique 78 speed records, and was explaining his find to his date when her eyes lit up and she exclaimed, "Oh! Those disc things! I've seen pictures of those!!!" That was when he concluded that he had to start dating women his own age. Common roots aren't by any means a universal requirement. I've known plenty of couples with successful relationships that were raised in different cultures with different native languages, but find enough in common to be happy. Dare I say it this close to the election, but I even have a very conservative friend with a very liberal wife, along the lines of Mary Mataline and James Carville, but in reverse. Chemistry is a weird thing. Sometimes opposites attract. Aw, lookit dat. ironhamster gettin' all supportive for shamwow. My apparent chastisement was actually a reference to the A-Team; demonstrating our compatibility, even as I appear to reject him. By his hostile response, if we actually "went that way", we'd be grabbing dinner pronto. It reflects well on you that you are NOT sufficiently familiar with that ridiculous show to catch that our "fight" would actually be signalling raw animal lust. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 28, 2020 6:57:06 GMT -5
Fair enough, mirrororchid. My memories of the A Team were limited to full auto gun fights in which nobody was ever injured, and we can thank Mr T for that. Then there was a young guy with hair and another guy that looked like Leslie Nielson but without the dry humor. I don't think I could get a dinner date out of that. |
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timedelay
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Oct 28, 2020 8:38:18 GMT -5
saarinista ... to put not-so-fine-a-point on the issue, H is also looking at a reduction of assets in the event of a divorce. So you may find that he is more open than you think to alternatives that avoid it, such as a don’t-ask-don’t-tell arrangement. Yeah, I get that. But I'm not about trying to blackmail him into "letting me" have friends on the side in exchange for me agreeing to not screw him over financially. I'm not going to screw him over regardless. He's a good man. We don't have children. Our marriage has always been one of equal financial and (more or less) household responsibility, though stuff has happened where my financial input has lagged in recent years. I'm trying to fix that which is damned hard in a pandemic. I've already talked in general terms about "don't ask, don't tell" arrangements with him. He wasn't thrilled, but I think he would eventually be amenable eventually, maybe. We have an unusual marriage where I feel like we are almost more like siblings now than spouses. I would truly prefer to make this a win win. I don't hate him in any way. I care about him and we've shared 20+ years together. Things change, though. But why does that mean I have live without sex until I die? No fair! It's not fair. I hear you, saarinista, it's a pretty crappy deal when you love a man who you don't want to leave but can't have a fulfilling sexual relationship with. I'm in what I think of as the 'transitioning' phase of my relationship with my husband. Like you, we are good friends and share decades of life together. I've spent the last 12 months conciously grieving the end of our marriage and having the toughest conversations with him that I can imagine ever having (bar possibly one involving a terminal illness). We begin every check-in conversation these days with "I love you and only want us both to be happy....".
I have hated my H at times over the years but I never stopped caring about him. I believe I love him more now than ever but I desire him less and less all the time and I'll be honest, that has only begun to change since finding sex elsewhere.
Putting myself out into the world of meeting real human beings in the flesh was terrifying. I didn't wait until I was all self actualized either; far from it. You know what it's like, after so many years of rejection; body confidence at rock bottom along with our self esteem. I felt physically sick the first time I sent a photo to someone I met online. I took myself off that dating app OkCupid because I just could not hack how ugly I felt on there. I spend time with Fet people because they are the least judgmental folks I've met so far and they actively encourage me to keep my clothes on during sex, if that's what I need to enjoy the experience. It seems so obvious now but I'd never thought of it before! Finding a lover who doesn't insist on being completely naked has done wonders for me. Taking these big steps is soooo tiring at times but again, oh it's so worth it when someone finally touches your body and soul with love.
Like isthisit I am very much still a work in progress. Would we trust someone who felt they weren't? Lack of self awareness and a fear of honesty was what held my H trapped, for decades. I was the one who had to push for the truth from him and it wasn't easy; like getting blood from a stone. It was either that or die and I want to LIVE as best I can, no matter how unconventionally.
All this to say, I feel the unfairness of this in your life and am wishing you well in finding solutions that work for you.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 28, 2020 11:29:34 GMT -5
This is another very good article greatcoastal . Thank you for sharing it. I didn’t need to read far to reaffirm I am simply not ready for the dating world. There’s a lot to be said for the statement at the end- “it’s better to be single than in a bad relationship “. This article also makes me wonder if some of us will ever be ready for divorce. I can't imagine ever going through a divorce and then being good enough to date again, according to the standards of that article, so why should I leave? Who wants a 60 year old woman anyway? Screw it. Might as well just stay numb and coast toward death. In principle, I agree with the article, but in reality I can't imagine meeting all of those criteria ever. Do we have to be perfectly self actualized to be worthy of finding love? That's pretty damned impossible, I think. I found the article helpful and it mirrors my own process. It's important, I think, to distinguish what the article says, vs imputing what it says. In responding to your reaction, saarinista , I'd point out that "dating" is not the same as "finding love". Finding love is one possible result of dating, but could also be the result of sharing time and experiences with people in other circumstances. You can find yourself "in love" with someone without ever having dated someone. You can date lots of people with no intention of finding love, or you can be very intentional about it and yet find that you do not love that person. Dating is an activity and finding love is a benefit that can be associated with dating. "Are you ready to date?" has been a question I've encountered in my post-married single life. It's reasonable one to ask, and the answer really depends. I've found when at the epicentre of a separation of a very long term relationship, there is a period in which equilibrium needs to be found. Detaching from my marriage meant working fairly hard to get myself back in shape, developing independent friendships and restoring them, seeking out new interests and things to do - experiences that I would not only enjoy independently but that would also help me be an interesting independent person, irrespective of dating. I also wanted to have sex. My first forays into the dating market were made knowing I'd learn hard lessons. I kept my expectations modest and paid a lot of attention and didn't necessarily locate sex within the context of marriage or a fulsome relationship. I learned about flings, FWB, casual dating etc - learned what the norms were where I live and at my present life state, and eventually noticed patterns in myself and others. I was open-hearted the whole time (perhaps too much) - but learned what's appropriate to share and show across a year or two, as well as improving a sense of the kind of partner I was likely to attract. Gradually I got better. Part of getting better was the result of me building a fulfilling life as a single man, and part of it was the result of learning lessons within the relationships I found. "Ready to date", for some people, means - do you have your shit together totally? Are you over your last person completely? Are you sad about your marriage? Do you have stories or anecdotes to share that did not happen in the context of a marriage or separation. Do you have anything established yet to bring to a relationship - interests, activities, a social life? These are for people who likely are only interested in immediately maximizing their long term relationship potential. "Ready to date" for other people, could also mean something more modest - not having time, privacy, focus, money for an all-in invested relationship, but still desiring company, activities, romantic or sexual attention. A lot of newly single people fit in this area. Also, sometimes people date for a year or two and break up - and immediately following this - may be in this stat. They may be stinging a bit, and feeling a need to enjoy a different person if only to symbolically feel they are moving forward (I like Nigella Lawson's description of a funeral luncheon, where the living traditionally eat, as a way of moving forward with life and separating from someone who will no longer join you in that). It takes time, following a relationship to be ready and open for a new fully invested relationship. I don't buy that people need to arrive fully re-forged and shiny out of the box to "deserve love" (besides, whatever you think you deserve from another has little bearing on defining their offer). I think that a lot of what MAKES you ready is learned through dating successes and mistakes, joys and heartbreaks - the patterns you notice and on which you seek to improve. I think of dating much as I do buying a lottery ticket, or in some ways, going to the gym, or maybe, charting a vacation. There's a combination of effort, mindfulness, luck that might result in the REAL THING - an "all in" invested relationship - but I don't necessarily start looking for someone to fill in the blank and become the dream version of my wife. I've seen people who absolutely were NOT ready to date. These were miserable people who clearly were not just experiencing in the pain of their absent former relationship (I think it's ok to have feelings), but rather who were clearly invested in the fight - in exploring it and venting to a new partner - with little introspection or mindfulness of their own behaviours - and who did not seem to have joy. |
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Post by angeleyes65 on Nov 9, 2020 21:04:04 GMT -5
sadkat I totally agree with you on so many points. It wasn't easy but was necessary. And it is a risk ,there is no way to know if you will be happier. I decided I wasn't happy and at least alone I was only responsible for my own happiness. I started working on loving myself before I left ,which is what lead me to leave. Sometimes I regret the time I wasted claiming my happiness. But regret is just punishing myself for not doing better. I wasn't ready before. I did the best I could. Never too late to be happy For the people saying they are too old, they will never be perfect ,no one will love them. You don't have to be young or perfect to be loveable. You don't have to be young or perfect to love. ♥️ Live your best life
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optima
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Post by optima on Oct 15, 2021 20:09:53 GMT -5
I’m still in the midst of a divorce but hopefully at the tail end and will be able to move out soon and be officially divorced by the winter (depending on state processing time, assuming the settlement and decree is agreed within the next two weeks). I am already looking forward to dating again. I emotionally detached from the marriage after discovery of the affair in August. I’ve gone through the stages of grief and am still angry, but am also now at peace with the fact that my sham of a marriage is over. Once the divorce is final, my view is I’m not getting any younger: if there are quality single women, is it really crazy to begin trying to date them? My sense is it would be crazy not to try to date someone who expresses a mutual interest. It’s been a very hard year and while I’m not afraid of being alone as I navigate newly single life, I also don’t feel like I need to wait indefinitely to get back out there. Thoughts?
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