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Post by jerri on Sept 21, 2020 0:37:33 GMT -5
jerri My SM situation started from day one. I was raised in a very conservative religious family and there was no talking about sex other than "wait for marriage" so I had no idea what to expect going into marriage. There was no premarital counseling in our church either. My wife wasn't in the mood on our wedding night and avoided me for most of our honeymoon. She only allowed sex to happen once because she felt guilty for depriving me and felt sorry for me. (Yes, she used those words on our honeymoon.) I didn't have any comparative experience so I didn't know what was "normal" for a newlywed couple. I blamed myself for years and thought I was just messed up. I thought maybe God was punishing me for some unknown wrong. I didn't snap out of it until many years in. I think it's a combination of us just being incompatible and ignorant about ourselves. We didn't talk about sex at all before marriage except for agreeing to wait. I didn't know that was a conversation that we had to have. I just assumed that since we shared the same beliefs, we would work things out. I was completely ignorant about the fact that some people don't have much of a sex drive and I had apparently been unlucky enough to marry one. Likewise, I don't think she had any idea that some people actually have a strong sex drive and apparently she had been unlucky enough to marry one. Since I wasn't going to be forcing her to have sex, she won the situation and I lost. I don't think she ever had any sexual interest in me but I didn't figure that out until after we were almost a decade in. That's my nutshell story. Sex didn't fade away over time. It never really started. No consummation on my wedding night should have been a clue for me. I waited three months to make sure he was the relationship I wanted. Looking back, that was really too easy for him to do. When you said you blamed yourself. That was me too. That feeling didn't change until many years later and it is so easy to do.
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Post by bozodeclowne on Sept 21, 2020 13:49:12 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the "I don't know, and she won't tell me" camp. In the early years, we'd go at it like rabbits. She was multi-orgasmic, frequently into the double digits, and I had no trouble getting her there. Life intervened, with jobs, houses and children. I foolishly tried to do everything, fix everything, build everything. I wasn't as present in the moment as I should have been, and that came with a cost. Something I have to live with now.
For her part, at age 39 my wife half-mumbled "I wonder when we can be done", in reference to our sex life. Prior to that, I had noticed a pattern of her putting everything else before our marriage, and then complaining that she didn't feel close to me. A lot of generalized complaining, but absolutely no effort to suggest solutions. Rinse and repeat.
We're now at the point where I'm sure my wife does not respect me, and doesn't really even seem to like me much. Mid-life buyer's remorse, maybe? Perhaps I never lived up to some perceived potential she had for me? The funny thing is I'm a far better husband and person than I was earlier in life. Apparently, too little too late.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 21, 2020 15:13:17 GMT -5
bozodeclowne she might even be regretting what she's turned out to be and projecting that self-disdain onto you. Either way, it's clearly not working, and if this forum is any indication it's unlikely to change. As Baza says, stay, leave or cheat. Also see a lawyer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 17:00:10 GMT -5
I can't answer this question from this list either, in some ways it was all of the above. The 32-year arc started right out of the gate with a mismatched libido that creates a negative feedback loop that just grows and grows until....stay/leave/cheat. Me wanting sex and wanting to "talk about it" created stress for her, creates resentments both ways, rinse repeat. She took sex off the table completely about a year ago (we had slipped into the technical definition of sexless-some sort of sexual activity 4-5 times/year). I'm no longer resentful and she appreciates not being bothered for sex. Will this equilibrium stay? Maybe.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 21, 2020 17:36:26 GMT -5
@tooyoungtobeold2 4-5 times a year sounds pretty good to me right now but it's not ideal at all.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 21, 2020 20:05:38 GMT -5
Update: ... he has made no attempt to call the doctor. He hates doctors, so I doubt I will get sex after we attempted weeks ago. Ugh. So sorry, Jerri. It sounded like he meant it. I had a bit of hope for the two of you. Glad you have someone to help.
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Post by lwoetin on Sept 22, 2020 1:11:44 GMT -5
Not really sure about the cause, she claims it's because we are in our 50s. The last few years when we did do it she complained more about feeling pain during intercourse probably from menopause. And she has no interest in doing it any more. which is a shame cause I do. And all my parts work perfectly fine so it is quite a bummer. I don't have any ill feelings towards her. She is feeling how she is feeling. And I am free to do as I wish. With consequences I am sure. She is my soulmate so I'm kinda screwed. Maybe humor and laughter she brings will be sufficient to replace sex. jk
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 22, 2020 6:28:51 GMT -5
Not really sure about the cause, she claims it's because we are in our 50s. The last few years when we did do it she complained more about feeling pain during intercourse probably from menopause. And she has no interest in doing it any more. which is a shame cause I do. And all my parts work perfectly fine so it is quite a bummer. I don't have any ill feelings towards her. She is feeling how she is feeling. And I am free to do as I wish. With consequences I am sure. She is my soulmate so I'm kinda screwed. Maybe humor and laughter she brings will be sufficient to replace sex. jk Mrs. Mirrororchid taught herself to use lube on herself to make sex possible again after I started dating. I can understand how unromantic it is to do something so medical before passion. Like putting a condom on, it interrupts the flow awkwardly. But tough toenails. We're in our 50s.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 22, 2020 17:05:53 GMT -5
I had to put Other.
With the benefit of hindsight, we had two very different ideas of marriage.
Mine was to have a FWE... Friend With Everything. Someone I enjoyed being with, having sex with, raising kids together, growing old together, etc...
She was looking for someone to take care of her and not ask too much in return.
From the wedding on, things were what I consider a bait and switch. There was a complete change in attitude / perspective as soon as I said "I Do". Overnight.
From that point on, she got what she wanted (security, money, kids, leisure) and I had the privilege of providing it. My needs were secondary, and eventually simply irrelevant. Yet, I stayed - for 20 years. That is completely on me.
This is an interesting survey question, though. I think that the available answers do define most marriages that go to shit. For most people it happens over time and happens gradually. Few have the stark and abrubt switch that happened to me in my marriage.
I'm just glad that today it is just a fading bad dream.
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muzack
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Post by muzack on Sept 22, 2020 21:11:13 GMT -5
Need multiple answers:
Psychological #1: Severe anxiety leading to a need to control all situations around her. Total intimacy killer.
Psychological #2: After our twins were stillborn, always afraid she would get pregnant again. Even a vasectomy doesn't fix this because they reverse themselves 1% of the time.
Upbringing: Father tried to keep her out of trouble by instilling in her that men are only after sex then they will "Use you and discard you like a filthy rag". She still can't get past the notion and thinks of sex as a 'get what you need and get out' situation and not a pathway to intimacy. Any talk like that on my part isn't masculine.
Age: Middle age comes and the horniness slows down. When you think of sex as 99% physical (see above), the idea that you should work each other up a little first is foreign territory.
Of course it's taken almost 20 years to get here. On all these she knows there are problems with her thinking, but actually letting the head knowledge change behavior is a tricky beast.
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Post by jim44444 on Sept 24, 2020 11:56:52 GMT -5
I looked for but did not see the "All of the Above" option. I have doubts that a failed relationship hinges on a singular issue. The big issue to me is lack of effective communication. Effective communication is a two way street of expressing our feelings and listening to our partners. Throw in life's crap, illness, disease and aging and every relationship will struggle without honest communication.
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Post by lwoetin on Sept 25, 2020 1:21:56 GMT -5
Mrs. Mirrororchid taught herself to use lube on herself to make sex possible again after I started dating. I can understand how unromantic it is to do something so medical before passion. Like putting a condom on, it interrupts the flow awkwardly. But tough toenails. We're in our 50s. So is it mirrororchid or mirrorchild? I have no problem with using lube on me and her. She has a problem. She doesn't desire pleasure. I am happy for you that you are getting your needs met although you are still wary that it may be a temporary reset. Seems you've got your polyamory backup plan. My emotional connection with my wife keeps me waiting for any reset. For now, I'm patiently taking mental notes of the experiences of others here.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 25, 2020 3:54:30 GMT -5
Mrs. Mirrororchid taught herself to use lube on herself to make sex possible again after I started dating. I can understand how unromantic it is to do something so medical before passion. Like putting a condom on, it interrupts the flow awkwardly. But tough toenails. We're in our 50s. So is it mirrororchid or mirrorchild? I have no problem with using lube on me and her. She has a problem. She doesn't desire pleasure. I am happy for you that you are getting your needs met although you are still wary that it may be a temporary reset. Seems you've got your polyamory backup plan. My emotional connection with my wife keeps me waiting for any reset. For now, I'm patiently taking mental notes of the experiences of others here. Orchid. It came from an article about living in a simulation and what you'd do to persuade the powers that be to let you out. My comment focused on your mentioning sex being painful. That'd certainly kill desire. Not sure who said it. though. (Baza?) "There are solutions for reasons, but not excuses." The lube was part of my wife making the reset happen in order to stop my dating. Not through desire for the sex itself. We use tribbing so I can make intimacy physically engaging for her and that seems to bring about some interest in helping me be close to her. Patience is a good ally. I didn't run out of it, oddly enough. Once I was on a path to get out of sexlessness, I was able to put in a full year of research and laying groundwork. Progress was a superb balm for my frustration. I used lots of time playing through scenarios of arguments we might have. Jerri's suggestion of being as firm but as kind as possible would have improved all those contingencies I didn't end up needing. (My wife initiated the reset shortly after she began therapy.) As Apocrypha notes, your wife may prefer sexlessness not be happening either, so the compassion may be well deserved.
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 25, 2020 10:22:58 GMT -5
My story has some parallels to h and @tooyoungtobeold2. W “phoned it in” since the very start of dating, but I was too inexperienced to recognize how hopeless it was. We were having “sex” but it was lifeless, and I wrongly assumed that living together after marriage would give us the privacy to become more intimate and have more/better sex. So, it was bad at the beginning and never got better. It’s a mystery why W is how she is. It smells like childhood sexual abuse (she sees affection as aggression and reacts defensively). Could just as easily be that she attracted a lot of sexual attention that hardened her attitude against the sincerity and value of receiving the same in a marriage. She doesn’t enjoy sex, so it’s a nuisance; an obligatory chore - under that context, who’d be excited for anything intimate that could lead to sex? Because she steadfastly refuses to give any feedback (doesn’t trust me enough to share?), after 30 years together I still can’t tell you what excites her, turns her on, or even feels good to her sexually. She’s missed out on so much of life’s joy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 11:50:26 GMT -5
My story has some parallels to h and @tooyoungtobeold2 . W “phoned it in” since the very start of dating, but I was too inexperienced to recognize how hopeless it was. We were having “sex” but it was lifeless, and I wrongly assumed that living together after marriage would give us the privacy to become more intimate and have more/better sex. So, it was bad at the beginning and never got better. It’s a mystery why W is how she is. It smells like childhood sexual abuse (she sees affection as aggression and reacts defensively). Could just as easily be that she attracted a lot of sexual attention that hardened her attitude against the sincerity and value of receiving the same in a marriage. She doesn’t enjoy sex, so it’s a nuisance; an obligatory chore - under that context, who’d be excited for anything intimate that could lead to sex? Because she steadfastly refuses to give any feedback (doesn’t trust me enough to share?), after 30 years together I still can’t tell you what excites her, turns her on, or even feels good to her sexually. She’s missed out on so much of life’s joy. Mine was a bit of bait/switch. Dating and then living together sex was pretty good but faded rapidly after the wedding. Your last paragraph nails my experience exactly. She avoided even the slightest intimacy likely because she thought a kiss might lead to me wanting sex. In hindsight, that's on me...I was so affection starved and sex starved that I inadvertently conditioned her to be this way. It's a chore (well....it WAS), something on the list to check off like sifting the cat box. Always only on Sunday mornings and only if there was almost no other stress of any kind which is pretty darn rare with three kids and a life. I used to call it "crime scene sex", the precise moment that sex is over you leap out of bed (because the chore is complete-why linger) and erase all evidence as fast as possible.
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