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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 23:23:20 GMT -5
My relationship with my wife has pretty much taken its toll on me. Lack of sex aside, she basically offers no affection whatsoever. I've tried new hobbies, focusing on improving myself, meeting new people, connecting with old friends, etc. but it feels like I'm trying to rebuild the house on a broken foundation.
After years of floundering on my own, I'm ready to accept help from a professional. My question is this - do I sort out my own sh!t first with individual therapy or include my wife from the start in couples counseling?
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Post by Handy on Sept 9, 2020 0:06:07 GMT -5
Sort out your own stuff individually and then you will know or see if including your W will be practical.
I tried the couples thing and it didn't work. I knew I had my own issues and they were difficult to fix all on their own.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 9, 2020 0:18:53 GMT -5
Agreed. Start with individual first. Frankly couples rarely works, especially after years of misery.
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Post by isthisit on Sept 9, 2020 0:19:38 GMT -5
Another vote here for sorting out your own shit first. This is not to imply that your issues (everyone has them) are the main influence in the marriage difficulties, but really the opposite.
Counselling can help you understand yourself. Your strengths (I was blind to mine), your limitations (some of those were news too) and what you want and need to be happy. Exploring yourself this way gives you clarity, validation (especially important in a SM deal) and confidence in yourself. Improving you will help you deal with the effects of your SM and empower you to make choices and advocate for your own happiness whether this is inside or outside of your marriage.
Time to invest in you.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 9, 2020 14:45:33 GMT -5
My relationship with my wife has pretty much taken its toll on me. Lack of sex aside, she basically offers no affection whatsoever. I've tried new hobbies, focusing on improving myself, meeting new people, connecting with old friends, etc. but it feels like I'm trying to rebuild the house on a broken foundation. After years of floundering on my own, I'm ready to accept help from a professional. My question is this - do I sort out my own sh!t first with individual therapy or include my wife from the start in couples counseling? It depends on what the goals are. Also, benefits of counselling are largely driven by the desire of all participants to receive them. That might sound like a very obvious statement, but in practice, it is not. I'm seeing two things in your situation: 1. Sorting out your shit so as to discover or create yourself as an individual who exists and is interesting irrespective of your relationship with your wife. So, being the best you. Hobbies, friends, developing a rich social network. As with fitness, this is is its own reward. Don't define your drive for this as contingent on someone else joining you in it. Your ability with this is partly what makes you an interesting person -- whether by yourself, with another person eventually, or possibly with your wife if she's interested. You were your own person when you met - and you were interesting enough then. 2. Your marital relationship - this is different and the trick is (in my experience and hindsight), you both need to want it. As in - you both need to want the relationship. If it's a situation like mine where someone is really so encrusted in contempt, self-delusion, and sabotage - the couples counselling will simply become another channel to rationalize and express those things. It will be used to justify rather than change anything. If you are hearing "Let's go to find out if we should be together" or "I'm not sure if I'm in or out with you on the whole marriage thing" - that's unlikely to produce much but pain and a waste of time, IMO. I think that's why the success rate tends to be bad with this, and why I think in this group where the contempt is so entrenched that people don't see their spouse as a sexual partner any longer - that it is too far gone.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 9, 2020 17:23:09 GMT -5
shrink4men.com/2020/07/03/couples-therapy-with-narcissists-and-borderlines/Go for individual counseling instead. My own personal experience started with couples counseling. My now ex decided,on her own, that it was not to her benefit. I stuck with my counselor. Mainly because he now had 'first hand experience' of who/what I was dealing with. An added benefit was that ,my counselor, had recently been taken to the cleaners by his now ex wife who was also a narcissist!
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Post by baza on Sept 9, 2020 19:50:16 GMT -5
My relationship with my wife has pretty much taken its toll on me. Lack of sex aside, she basically offers no affection whatsoever. I've tried new hobbies, focusing on improving myself, meeting new people, connecting with old friends, etc. but it feels like I'm trying to rebuild the house on a broken foundation. After years of floundering on my own, I'm ready to accept help from a professional. My question is this - do I sort out my own sh!t first with individual therapy or include my wife from the start in couples counseling? Sorting out your own shit is always a good idea, irrespective of whether you are married or not, irrespective of whether your marriage is good/bad/indifferent. It's a good thing to do for your own personal development. If you sort your own shit out, assorted relationships will change. Some will thrive under such circumstances. Some will get re-defined. Some will end. But if you bring the authentic *you* to the table, you will get a truth based outcome .... and that is a god thing, but it can be a very painful process.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 22:54:02 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I'll take individual counseling just to sort out my own issues first. Also, a visit with an attorney just to see what I stand to lose.
These are just baby steps, but it's better than my feet being planted to the ground not moving.
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Post by lessingham on Sept 11, 2020 3:03:22 GMT -5
My wife refuses counselling because of my depression therapy. She says it makes me an expert at therapy so would "win". She never defines what winning means but there you go.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 11, 2020 6:03:52 GMT -5
My wife refuses counselling because of my depression therapy. She says it makes me an expert at therapy so would "win". She never defines what winning means but there you go. Maybe your definition of winning should be heard. "Closeness to you. An overwhelming urge to squeeze you tight at night before going off to sleep. A kiss I get lost in when we send each other off in the morning. Fantasies of remembering that kiss later in the day." If I get crazy in love with you, you lose? *shrug* OK, what's winning for you then? My leaving? Personally, sex is what makes those things happen to me. No man evolved over millions of years to feel that way for any woman not bearing his children. Every one of those romantics died out long ago. Of course if you're a creationist, we're all made like Adam and Eve knowing nothing of carnal lust. Somewhere in our lives without them, we eff'd up and want sex now. Platonic love works for five year olds with their first crush. Why can't we summon that euphoria for our spouse at will? Why does puberty have to change that? Why do we have to spoil everything?
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Post by saarinista on Sept 11, 2020 13:05:16 GMT -5
My wife refuses counselling because of my depression therapy. She says it makes me an expert at therapy so would "win". She never defines what winning means but there you go. What is your end game?
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Post by lessingham on Sept 12, 2020 3:04:30 GMT -5
I think she has a common misconception, for somebody to win, someone must lose. The idea of mutual wins seems alien to her. I think she fears retrospective guilt. As it stands she is doing nothing wrong in her eyes. If we move to a typical sexual behaviour then she has to contemplate the decades of hurt and damage she wrecked on us. She won't so she prefers to make her stand as the true voice of sexual reason in the marriage and I am just a typical sex mad male.
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Post by lessingham on Sept 12, 2020 3:05:55 GMT -5
My end game is a sex life where the expectation of sex is yes, not the certainty of no
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 12, 2020 6:13:20 GMT -5
My end game is a sex life where the expectation of sex is yes, not the certainty of no I don't mean to throw cold water on this post but could you be more specific as to which direction the expectation of sex is aimed. It can't be in the direction of your W. You have given far too many explanations of her behavior and attitude for even a fantasy of that happening. So where is the push for some nukkie headed?
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Post by jerri on Sept 12, 2020 15:39:57 GMT -5
If you get the chance interview and record your therapy sessions. Have a list of questions ready and one of my therapists gave me a lot of assignments! I felt uncomfortable with the challenges yet, knew I was headed in the right direction.
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