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Post by workingonit on Aug 17, 2020 8:18:25 GMT -5
Hey gang
It has been awhile since I have written an update. I realize this is really more for me but here it goes.
I am still married, despite my efforts. For more than a year we have been clear we will divorce. We have spoken to the kids. We have separated the money other than the sale of the house, which we have agreed to split. He has continued to come up with reasons, that are all rational, why we need to continue living together. The main reason has been financial. He cannot afford to live somewhere and finish his PhD unless we sell the house and he uses his half to support himself. We were going to put the house on the market in the spring but pandemic hit, my older son needed to come home, and then I had 3 guys at home all the time locked down while I went to work. My STBX begged me to keep it this way until his big exam is complete in November. At that point we will move toward selling our house although the market is much better here in the summer and spring so it may not be worth it.
In the meantime, we continue to live together. This has been a really mixed bag. On the one hand, we really do like each other and can talk about a range of topics that we both are interested in. We talk daily, laugh together and even still do things like share music or articles with each other. Also, while he really is a horrible co-parent, or a not even co-parent, my son has been having a VERY hard time. Having a suicidal teen is hard, having him home all the time is hard, being at work is hard but leaving him home alone would be impossible right now. The best thing about the pandemic for me is that it forced me to put my plans on pause long enough to realize that I 100% need an adult in my house all day right now. And I have that in my STBX. He is a crappy father but he is there all day every day. THIS IS SO CRUCIAL!! There have been days when I have called to just have him do safety checks throughout the day.
It is also really hard. Continuing to deal with my mentally ill son without any meaningful support or partnership from my STBX is like stabbing a deep wound again and again. I realized recently I will never forgive him for the way he has abandoned this child or me in parenting this child. Never. I can forgive him for his sexlessness; I can see him and how hard it is for him. I cannot stay with him in a sexless life but I forgive him for it. But his neglect of his parenting duties? Never. And being constantly reminded of it is wearing thin on my psyche.
So between continuing to work all through the pandemic, doing all the parenting for both of my kids, managing the house/bills/errands/EVERYTHING by myself while I continue to support and house my STBX who is more like an adult child I also have to take care of but is able to drive and has a car, I would say my life is certainly not where I want it to be. I mean, 2020 has been a shit show on a personal level for everyone I know, on a local and global level so my small story is not much to whine about.
In better news I have been consistently exercising, eating well, not drinking alcohol, meditating, and staying in close connection with friends and family. These things are keeping me going and have been really good. I feel very much that I am living one day at a time right now. And trying to dream of a future that looks very different.
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grower
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by grower on Aug 17, 2020 11:14:13 GMT -5
Wow, that is a plate full, My heart goes out to you, and prayers for you and your son. I don't think you necessarily need to put your divorce on hold regardless of your living arrangements. I luckily do not have the amount of stress you have, and have been able to manage living separately while I proceed forward and hope the clear that divorce hurtle by years end. Get a good lawyer, get all you can, including future earning off that PHD that i'm sure you are paying for, F him. If you don't for some reason feel entitled you could always decline money.Takes a lot of $ to replace the help you should have been getting and continue to receive. Best of luck to you. Hang in there. Grower
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Post by saarinista on Aug 17, 2020 12:26:52 GMT -5
This sounds good. Hang in there. I think you're doing the right stuff. This is not a good tune to sell a house in most cases.
I applaud you for thinking of your spouse's financial/professional viability as well as your own. Divorce is bad enough emotionally without adding bilateral financial devastation to the fallout.
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Post by isthisit on Aug 17, 2020 15:08:52 GMT -5
Thank you for the update. I have wondered how things are going for you. Partly this is because we continue to run seemingly parallel lives.
Just like you I separated a year and a half ago from a spouse who was barely capable of co-parenting our two children, one of which does have some additional needs but nowhere close to your son’s situation. I am sorry to hear that he is still waiting for improvement. I continue to share our home with my STBX and continue to be the only grown up in the relationship managing the running of the home, children’s needs, bills, jobs and such. I have also worked very hard throughout the Covid period which has been very challenging.
I have a slight advantage over you though, in my home this is only tolerable because H works away 5 days out of 8 which makes it doable. Similarly to you despite it all I still feel the need to support and protect him, and some days parent him, although I cannot say I enjoy this company much. I aim to maintain a warm and supportive relationship with him as we share children and many years of shared memories and some happy years. It remains to be seen if we can maintain this arrangement as he recently has had pretty dreadful mood swings from warm and caring to angry and openly hostile. This month I threatened him with the door if he could not overcome his antipathy. Why the hostility? Deep down he hasn’t let go of the “you ruined my life” thing.
A new challenge recently has been that H has been dating, well trying to date. He uses Tinder and struggles to establish a connection and has twice been ghosted after 1 date and very recently saw a woman four times before being kicked to the kerb. I was wholly unfazed by this. As long as he kept to our conditions of being discreet and ensured the dates stayed well away from our home I was fine with it. After all if he was cheered up it was to my advantage. A really weird thing happened though. When single he was his usual pleasant and cordial self. As soon as he was dating he became hostile and pretty unbearable towards me. I cannot work that out at all, I would guess it would be the other way around.
If possible we will maintain this arrangement for the next two years as we would like to maintain the continuity and stability of our home for our children until the youngest leaves for university. When H is away and cordial when here this feels doable. Just like you, part of our decision making relates to the housing market as here there is little to buy thanks to the Brexit shambles (the U.K. leaves properly after NY -mid pandemic so nothing to fear there 😖) and the uncertainty about how Covid will play out. It seems daft to create emotional and financial instability for the sake of it right now.
So, it’s an unusual arrangement but works for us. I had concerns about H’s safety early on as he was traumatised by my decision but I worry less about that today. Just like you, I have been coming to terms with my choices, both before and after the separation, investing in myself, engaging with and leaning on my good friends. I am immeasurably happier today. I look forward to my future. For the first time in decades I have no idea what that looks like, but that feels exciting today and not scary, I have a new found confidence in myself which I lost in the misery of my M.
Perhaps we are creating an alternative approach to civilised separation putting the needs of the family first? This brings me to my question to you. What is your plan if you unexpectedly meet your Mr Wonderful? Here, that would upset the apple cart rather spectacularly. I am not actively seeking this as the needs of my family come first and actually I’m not sure I am ready anyway, but opportunities often do not wait until it is convenient.
Well done for getting this far, and good luck with what is to come. It’s not easy but doing the right thing for the right reasons often works out for the best.
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Post by jerri on Aug 17, 2020 15:53:49 GMT -5
A good therapist is in order. I would not have anyone vulnerable to suicide without one? I don't know your situation, but H may need an assignment to halt most of the depression with the book- Wheat Belly Audio and The Plant Paradox audio easily obtained by download from the library. Jason Fung Also mentioned it in his book. I am very vulnerable to depression via my diet. Thyroid health, grains, food additivess, hormones, lack of my body's assimilation of vitamins. Specifically, pregnenolone, vitamin D3 etcetera. ETA: I can't believe I need to say this>all of us will have very different lab results. What finally worked may not work for another. What worked for me, to bring serotonin up was...( Edited to remove my medication of course his doctor prescribed something different. Wasn't intended for your son, but it could help others ) -"According to the findings from the Sequenced Treatment Alternatives to Relieve Depression (STAR*D) study, 50%–66% of patients with depression do not recover fully on an antidepressant medication and one-third of patients do have a remission of their depressive symptoms." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc Treatment-resistant depression: therapeutic trends, challenges, and future directions - NCBI - NIH It's basically ketogenic. Dr. Berg, Jason Fung, William Davis, and Mark Sisson -keto reset diet 21 day plan.( For eating plan) Your son is too far gone. He won't even want to do it so your husband will have to help him set that up?!? Just ideas, but the eating plan just may save your son's life and that is the path of least resistance. Jason Fung's work turned into a 7-Day fast for me and it told me right away that my hormones were off and my pain and depression cleared miraculously. But that's not something I recommend right off the bat! It did tell me how right those other authors were!
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Post by workingonit on Aug 17, 2020 19:45:20 GMT -5
Thanks isthisit . And it is weird to hear such similarities. Neither of us are dating. I just don't see how I could while still living with him. I certainly feel like it would not be cheating of course. But I am not ok with it. I need to have some alone time and recover and rediscover myself. I even have days where I am not sure I will ever want a relationship again. I am sure that notion will change but right now I don't even think I would recognize Mr Wonderful!!
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Post by workingonit on Aug 17, 2020 20:21:59 GMT -5
jerri thank you for your concern and your thoughts. I appreciate your caring! As a nurse practitioner with additional training in functional medicine and specialty training in gastroenterology, focused on lifestyle and nutrition I am aware of all the authors you mentioned. I have even met Jason Fung who has some impressive research on fasting. I have participated in long term fasts actually. I deeply disagree with the keto promoters. I have found the studies supporting it incredibly flawed. There is a contentious nutrition war in the holistic health community around this and I very much come down on the other side. I have a tremendous number of hours clocked delving into this research over the last 8 years, including face to face learning with some of the amazing MDs in this field. I love when people share what has worked for them but I feel I must simply say that suggesting medications or things that could "save my sons life" is a pseudo-science approach to medicine that is endemic in this internet world. Please let's share personal anecdotes without making them objective advice. baza is famous for warning us to avoid the law firm of Facebook Family and Friends. I will similarly say we should avoid giving or listening to medical advice from that same firm. Hope that makes sense and it is received with the friendly "let's make science real again" vibe I mean it with! And I do appreciate the caring behind the advice!
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Post by baza on Aug 17, 2020 20:52:35 GMT -5
You have progressively gotten yourself in control of the things you can control in your unique situation Sister workingonit . And to the extent it is possible, you are influencing what you can with the other players in this situation. Then, there's other factors in play you've got no control over, like the economy, housing market, coronavirus et al. You are well placed for your next leap forward when the opportunity emerges. You've done well, thanks for the update.
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grower
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by grower on Aug 18, 2020 7:44:58 GMT -5
Some idea of Mr. or Ms.Wonderful, I think is a bit of fantasy. And while healing and rediscovering of self,love and joy of life is important, moving forward with open heart and the knowledge that you are imperfect, which is great, because so is the world, and all the people in it. As time allows you should experience and enjoy the things that fulfill you, and that seems for many here sex. Enjoying the voyage of discovery in new friendships/relationships is one of the best experiences in life, but not risk free. At my age 60, I am happy with Ms.Compatible, and we both have very busy lives, careers and families. We relish and make the most of the time that we do spend together. It seems that communication or lack of is a common thread in an either good or bad relationship and that sex is a vital form of communication and should be open for discussion and not relegated, to some ultimate prize or reward to be given or withheld. Obviously there is not universal agreement on this. Don't know exactly know where I am going with this, but love is love and ideally sex can be the communication of love, or sex can just be sex. It can be a caring and stress relieving form of friendship. I seek not ideals or perfection, but acceptance, communication, companionship and a mutual appreciation of the inherent beauty and joy still present for those who want it.
Sorry for rambling on. Life is good, enjoy it when you can.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 18, 2020 10:52:13 GMT -5
When single he was his usual pleasant and cordial self. As soon as he was dating he became hostile and pretty unbearable towards me. I cannot work that out at all, I would guess it would be the other way around. ...What is your plan if you unexpectedly meet your Mr Wonderful? ... opportunities often do not wait until it is convenient. It's possible, he's unhappy that women seem to find him less than great company. An opinion you share. An opinion he may have been convinced was incorrect, but is staring at evidence of its veracity full in the face. No one likes to think they're the villain of their own story. Maybe his mood is a sign of his inner turmoil. There may be a general misogyny developing where all women are monsters. Red pill stuff. It's not HIS problem. It's unreasonable expectations! Just a guess. If you start dating successfully, I'm not sure I like the silly ideas that might start floating around in his head. (Totally his problem, of course. You do you.) A lot of guys in open marriage get slapped pretty hard by the reality check that women are much "hotter property" in open marriages. We're talking Lava vs. school cafeteria food.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 18, 2020 13:51:47 GMT -5
No shade to anyone else, but I'm with you workingonit and science. There are lots of fancy theories out there but I think the eternal slog of hard work and positive thinking and pain management us what gets us where we want to be. Sorry to say! And now I am going to clean and sanitize my refrigerator because it's my turn to do it. A sexless marriage is no excuse for letting other things slide!
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Post by isthisit on Aug 18, 2020 15:37:10 GMT -5
Thanks isthisit . And it is weird to hear such similarities. Neither of us are dating. I just don't see how I could while still living with him. I certainly feel like it would not be cheating of course. But I am not ok with it. I need to have some alone time and recover and rediscover myself. I even have days where I am not sure I will ever want a relationship again. I am sure that notion will change but right now I don't even think I would recognize Mr Wonderful!! Oh yes, I have plenty of those “never again” days too. Like you I am in no hurry, I’ve myself to work on quite a bit. My aim is to be happy alone with a full and interesting life, and if Mr W comes along, smashing. If not that’s just fine because I do not have that millstone around my neck anymore.
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Post by jerri on Aug 18, 2020 15:38:52 GMT -5
People can make keto unhealthy by not selecting healthy keto foods. I am very interested in the studies and I will write you. Can you please send them to me along with your favorite eating plan name that best fits what you prefer? I can really learn something here
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Post by isthisit on Aug 18, 2020 15:52:00 GMT -5
When single he was his usual pleasant and cordial self. As soon as he was dating he became hostile and pretty unbearable towards me. I cannot work that out at all, I would guess it would be the other way around. ...What is your plan if you unexpectedly meet your Mr Wonderful? ... opportunities often do not wait until it is convenient. It's possible, he's unhappy that women seem to find him less than great company. An opinion you share. An opinion he may have been convinced was incorrect, but is staring at evidence of its veracity full in the face. No one likes to think they're the villain of their own story. Maybe his mood is a sign of his inner turmoil. There may be a general misogyny developing where all women are monsters. Red pill stuff. It's not HIS problem. It's unreasonable expectations! Just a guess. If you start dating successfully, I'm not sure I like the silly ideas that might start floating around in his head. (Totally his problem, of course. You do you.) A lot of guys in open marriage get slapped pretty hard by the reality check that women are much "hotter property" in open marriages. We're talking Lava vs. school cafeteria food. Thank you for your thoughts, it is very helpful to have a male perspective on it. I had not considered your points. May I ask why females are “hotter property” than males? Assuming there is an equal number of single males and females I do not understand why it wouldn’t be equitable. Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 18, 2020 16:18:41 GMT -5
It's possible, he's unhappy that women seem to find him less than great company. An opinion you share. An opinion he may have been convinced was incorrect, but is staring at evidence of its veracity full in the face. No one likes to think they're the villain of their own story. Maybe his mood is a sign of his inner turmoil. There may be a general misogyny developing where all women are monsters. Red pill stuff. It's not HIS problem. It's unreasonable expectations! Just a guess. If you start dating successfully, I'm not sure I like the silly ideas that might start floating around in his head. (Totally his problem, of course. You do you.) A lot of guys in open marriage get slapped pretty hard by the reality check that women are much "hotter property" in open marriages. We're talking Lava vs. school cafeteria food. Thank you for your thoughts, it is very helpful to have a male perspective on it. I had not considered your points. May I ask why females are “hotter property” than males? Assuming there is an equal number of single males and females I do not understand why it wouldn’t be equitable. Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question. The polyamory podcasts and websites indicate that the number of gents willing to date married women are plentiful. Double so if the husband is ok with it. (or demonstrably trying to date like yours.) Women are, statistically, interested in monogamy/marriage. This rules out married men. Look on any dating site and many a profile explicitly warns away married men. Men, stereotypically, are not concerned with long-term bonding as a requirement for physical intimacy. A married partner is just as pleasant for company. Some folks here may have more first hand knowledge to disabuse me of what I've heard.
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