|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 20, 2020 4:08:32 GMT -5
Do you have a deadline in mind? This may be a stalling tactic. ... Mr. SM FWB is coming in for business every week. Oh. I thought you were abstaining from your FWB to avoid possible COVID exposure. I misunderstood. ... if you can get one they really need to be online and polyamorous friendly? polyamory.com Has a lot quality mentors. Polyamory therapists are available on Zoom or Skype
I have no therapist. I'll try to bear it in mind if I run into the kind of passive-aggressive friction apocrypha did. Funny about polyamorists. The ones I run into have zero patience for "cheaters". They lump SM folk, some of him inform their spouses of the newly opened marriage, in with the ones who dump monogamy out of boredom. No distinction. I get it. Theirs is an environment free from the defects of "cheaters" of both stripes. The peace and love at one with the universe thing is best unsullied by complications of imperfect marriage. Who needs that drama smearing their sanctuary? ... I will be lying about my sex with Mr friend with benefits. I also told him not to bother asking where I go because I will be automatically lying by default. Love the honesty about the dishonesty. I may borrow that if my wife reacts poorly to dating (if it happens).
... unless I am supported and encouraged to do so with a smile like some are on the polyamory forum. I wonder if "cheating" ladies are treated with a bit more decorum than gents. My reception was a cold one. ...my husband called and he was not very happy with me ..., it's not that I can't, it's that I won't.Hey, you seem up for fixing the problem if he'd only explain what it is. Same here. Thing is, I did almost nothing. She fixed it with nearly no change in my behavior, at least before the reset. Sex makes me very cuddly and indulgent. It's hard to extract her behavior form mine. Her change changed me which may have made the reset last this long. ... gently inform my husband that I would be having sex outside the marriage until the sex was ... once a week because Society, if we can call them normal, had it every 10 days on average. ...Once I was getting sex again it was so much easier to be gentle and nice to my husband and I've made a point to do so ever since. I went the polyamory way ... which put my husband at the top of the hierarchy of love, I've not heard of "The Society". Though I did hear sex every 10 days as the floor of "average couples" from somewhere. I've heard compelling warnings about hierarchical poly on "Multiamory" podcasts. It can be traumatic to a second love to be on notice their needs, if push comes to shove, will always lose. This assumes apples to apples. They mention prioritization of needs and the urgent needs of a "second" must take priority over important needs of a "primary" and how urgent needs are can get sticky. I imagine it helps when both partners have a "primary" like you and your FWB. He touches me only when I reach out for touch. His family is not the huggy type, but he loves touchThere may be an ugly story behind that. Parents that were distant leaving an impact on him. Funny how it doesn't naturally progress since he likes platonic touch so much. Wonder what he'd think of a cuddling party. Platonic poly. ...One therapist told me it gets very messy, either way it gets messy I really felt like I was in a lose-lose situation and it really didn't matter to me which way it got quote-unquote messy!Reading around on ILIASM, it's hard to argue. Perhaps an SM is only messy on the inside, and thus it's held in high regard by society and approving, but ignorant, onlookers.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 20, 2020 4:18:50 GMT -5
No, you are correct. I would love to have sex with Mr. FWB, but I am trying to abstain to keep my husband safe. I love the idea that you came up with about getting him tested 4 covid and if he's positive, go ahead and have sex if my dear husband will not. I am not sure what a fair deadline would be? I will write you with details. I am tired and I will come back with an edit. Is there a chance that you would like a PDF on opening a marriage?
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 20, 2020 4:56:38 GMT -5
No, you are correct. I would love to have sex with Mr. FWB, but I am trying to abstain to keep my husband safe. I love the idea that you came up with about getting him tested 4 covid and if he's positive, go ahead and have sex if my dear husband will not. I am not sure what a fair deadline would be? He said once a week was okay. Even said more was possible. You could make the deadline Monday which most folks think of as the start of a week and therefore it is "next week" not "this week". Promise broken and it's seems fair to assume he forgot he made it. No hard feelings, but I'm calling my buddy. You could make it the Monday AFTER next in case he meant "this coming week". That's up to 13 days. Pretty decent leeway on that pledge. Beyond his promise, what deadline when no promise has been made? Totally your call. In my own situation, I've determined I attain impatience and displeasure after two weeks. I've set three weeks as the time I feel justified in calling Kathy. 37 days is the span needed to produce a sexless marriage (10 times a year is sex every 36.5 days.) This was the span I determined justification for non-platonic dates. Three weeks is 21 days. A refuser has two weeks to "get in the mood" or monogamy has been abandoned and the refused has been forsaken. I've not heard a formal definition of "forsaken". It could help a great many refused spouses if there were. My definition is 37 days of unexplained refusal. (Or weak excuses with no plans to correct it.) This is not to say constant deprivation / drought isn't grounds for infidelity or divorce. These are just metrics I came up with and may well abandon some other time. It has all the authority of morning fog. Frankly, setting up hard limits may produce unhealthy reliance on rules rather than open compassionate communication. Multiamory podcast has had episodes on the threat of rules producing new ways to break promises. You should set them with great care.
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on Aug 20, 2020 8:06:41 GMT -5
Whoa. Do I understand you correctly? Unfortunately, yes. I have a working theory that W has no concept of intimacy and good sex, and therefore can’t relate to the emotional value and physical pleasure it brings. (She truly doesn’t get anything out of the experience, and I’ve got to say that I know I couldn’t be *that* terrible. We’ve never had a good sex life; I wrongly assumed it would develop.) But when your spouse is literally telling you they feel emotionally starved and terribly lonely in the relationship... most sensible people would not ignore the alarm bells and hope the fire will put itself out. It’s been a journey of trying different things to help her appreciate both how valuable intimacy is to me, and also try to find something she enjoys (without her input), but it’s been a dead end on both fronts. After 30 years of trying, I get the hint. I am so sorry this is your experience DryCreek . Your W sounds limited in ways I recognise from my marriage too. I seriously doubt that your bedroom skills have anything at all to do with her reaction. Your W’s lack of empathy with you and the emotional paucity of your experience of the marriage is actually the problem here. A loving spouse should wish for your emotional fulfilment and have a willingness to understand your needs and seek to accommodate them. You seem to have done this for her and provided the aspects of marriage important to her such as children, being economically inactive (best behaviour here.... ), socially valid intact family unit etc, etc. You say you now have taken the hint, and I assume this means have accepted that your W is incapable of achieving any viewpoint other than her own, and only what is important to her is important. So, your marriage and therefore emotional wellbeing will remain as is until one of you die. I am aware that you are a resolute stayer, and I respect that choice as equally valid to anyone else’s. I guess I am different. Once I understood that H had no empathy at all for my experience of our M and my happiness was unimportant to him I had to act. One way love and understanding in a one way marriage was not life as I need to live it. Good luck with your choice, I sincerely hope that you do not live to regret it.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Aug 20, 2020 10:32:45 GMT -5
It's been almost two decades of contempt. So based on that alone, I should have been divorced 15 years ago by the authors study and I believe he's a great author. I am the one who chose not to get a divorce with the help of a sexual therapist. Curious - if it's been almost two decades of marriage to a person who you say holds you in contempt, and who displays evidence of that - why you would want that. What's marriage bringing to the table for you? What's important about that, if you believe your husband holds you in contempt? I'm not saying it isn't, but rather trying to understand why you see it this way. You can totally do that - the research is widely reported and Malcolm Gladwell has also done a deep dive into it - I think in his book Blink. They discuss the methodology used - it was a pretty groundbreaking study with wide diagnostic implications. I have provided the doctor's name. Note, I did not say people got divorced because someone rolled eyes. I said they got divorced because they held each other in contempt, and that rolling eyes was one of the strongest indicators of contempt. And that the divorce rate in their longitudinal study was near 100% on that factor. The longitudinal psychological clinical study was more stringent than this anecdote, designed to test those beliefs. It wasn't a test as to whether people thought they "should" get divorced. Part of the revelation was that people who routinely displayed those behaviors eventually DID get divorced. Yes I noted that, with interest - mainly because it wasn't clear to me why you wouldn't leave him. Why are you together? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be - I'm just reading what you've written and I'm trying to get a read on what marriage is bringing to the table for each of you here. Or, just for you. What would you like to have happen? I am getting the feeling that maybe I assumed your problem or your goal incorrectly. Based on your first post, it sounded like you were trying to figure out what to say to your husband to convince him to have sex with you. Later, you illuminated that your husband holds you in contempt, and you elaborated more on your extramarital arrangement. I think your discussion of this extramarital thing is distracting you from your initial problem. Miirrororchid and I have both had extensive experience with non-monogamous invested relationships in some form or another, so it's not really a matter of us not getting it. I'm suggesting that if you are eliminating the extramarital option due to health concerns (be those STI related or pandemic related - it doesn't matter much what the reasons are), then you are faced with the same problem that any of the other people here are - it's not unique. Namely, "How do I get someone who doesn't want to have sex with me to have sex with me?" I kind of think that's the wrong question. Mine back to you - and to anyone in this situation is "Why would you want to have sex with someone who clearly has demonstrated in words and behavior that they absolutely do not want to have sex with you?" What do you get out of that that you couldn't just do yourself? Riffing on that thought for a moment, I'll share a bit - because it's something that's come up in my own life a few times during the pandemic as I've struggled with figuring out how to date - and it's something I recently discussed with my newish girlfriend (rounding on 3 months now). If it was strictly a bodily excretory function, it could be handled daily as needed with efficiency alone. So, the other person brings something to it. And I'd venture, as far as experimenting alternatives to physical intimacy goes - there's something special about another person's presence or attention to one's sexual expression - even if they aren't there physically. Where we came to with that conversation was that we'd like the sexual expression/pleasure/orgasm (whatever you want to call it) to matter to someone else, who appreciates it on some level - even if it is simply to bear witness.
In other words, it is an intimate sharing between two people (or more than two, depending). The sharing and the desire for that sharing is the important thing - more than just the pleasure itself. So, when I see people saying "How can I make my partner have sex with me?" - having been there and experienced the results of a partner who didn't want me agreeing to have sex with me regardless, and both of us hating it and feeling more distant after - it makes me feel like a counterproductive goal is being pursued. Food for thought. It's likely no one can really be told this, but rather needs to experience it. So your mileage may vary.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 20, 2020 14:04:51 GMT -5
It's been almost two decades of contempt. (Eye rolling, when I tried to put material in front of him that he didn't want to see. Going silent or clamming up when I want to talk about sex. Refusing to talk about sex. Turning off the light which l see as a lack of empathy and a sign of disrespect). based on that alone, I should have been divorced 15 years ago ?? by the author's study I believe he's a great author. I am the one who chose not to get a divorce with the help of a sexual therapist. Curious - if it's been almost two decades of marriage to a person who you say holds you in contempt, and who displays evidence of that - why you would want that. What's marriage bringing to the table for you? Thank you for taking the time to make me think about what's going on within the marriage. I guess I would really love to see if my relationship truly fits most of the definition of contempt and how much of that spills in other parts of our life. I don't think it spills over into other parts of our life . If you would like I will write you and give you more details. Although there is enough in this thread that he would immediately know who I am. Oops I could be very wrong about any of this and it will be a learning experience. I have been with him more than two decades and it got sexless little by little, especially after marriage.
What's important about that, if you believe your husband holds you in contempt? I'm not saying it isn't, but rather trying to understand why you see it this way.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 20, 2020 14:33:09 GMT -5
No, you are correct. I would love to have sex with Mr. FWB, but I am trying to abstain to keep my husband safe. I love the idea that you came up with about getting him tested 4 covid and if he's positive, go ahead and have sex if my dear husband will not. I am not sure what a fair deadline would be? Even said more was possible. I honestly don't think I will get sex tomorrow. I don't think I will get sex once a month or possibly more. I asked him, does this mean we get six every third Friday? He said I could have it more often. I'm going to say after several decades of sexlessness. I probably won't get sex. Cest la vie. I will probably be calling friend with benefits and asking him to get tested for Covid. I loved your idea Monday is a good call, thanks, MOrchidYou could make the deadline Monday which most folks think of as the start of a week and therefore it is "next week" not "this week". Promise broken and it's seems fair to assume he forgot he made it. No hard feelings, but I'm calling my buddy. You could make it the Monday AFTER next in case he meant "this coming week". That's up to 13 days. Pretty decent leeway on that pledge. Beyond his promise, what deadline when no promise has been made? Totally your call. 😃 I really don't know the answer to that. My first reaction is to leave the door open forever because I did love making love with my husband! On the other hand, if I'm really upset I hope I don't just act out and walk out the door on Sunday. It's hard knowing that Mr SM FWB comes into town every week and I don't get sex. And it's really strange that I am getting tested for an STD after having sex text my husband, but I won't be able to get in right away. I will come back with an edit. Gotta go 💙In my own situation, I've determined I attain impatience and displeasure after two weeks. I've set three weeks as the time I feel justified in calling Kathy. 37 days is the span needed to produce a sexless marriage (10 times a year is sex every 36.5 days.) This was the span I determined justification for non-platonic dates. Three weeks is 21 days. A refuser has two weeks to "get in the mood" or monogamy has been abandoned and the refused has been forsaken. Please forgive me, but if this is recent, I think you should still persue Kathy. You may want to keep writing her at the very least. It is so much harder for a man to get sex online than it is a woman. We can get men way above our level. Mr. Friend with benefits is a previous magazine model. It has been very many years since he is done that, but he still much better looking than I am and makes way more money than I do. Like I said earlier, my marriage was evaluated for strength and I was asked if we still did things together, enjoyed each other's company. I said yes, and we still have date night. Understand that we do not have quality date night anymore because of covid and we only bring take out home and enjoy TV together while we eat our meal. I was told not to let go of Mister friend with benefits. Not to let someone control my sex life any longer and if he resumed sex and intimacy,I could reevaluate the situation later. I told my husband that I would still be stepping out for sex. I didn't tell him about the intimacy I was receiving and I don't think it's a good idea to rub anything like that in his face. it was bad enough that I was stepping out of the marriage for sex. He was really kind and understanding although he didn't like it. And I can't say that I blame him. He was trying to negotiate monogamy after a decade of sexless marriage.I've not heard a formal definition of "forsaken". It could help a great many refused spouses if there were. My definition is 37 days of unexplained refusal. (Or weak excuses with no plans to correct it.) This is not to say constant deprivation / drought isn't grounds for infidelity or divorce. These are just metrics I came up with and may well abandon some other time. It has all the authority of morning fog. Frankly, setting up hard limits may produce unhealthy reliance on rules rather than open compassionate communication. Multiamory podcast has had episodes on the threat of rules producing new ways to break promises. You should set them with great care. I love it!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I need the same definition!!!!
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Aug 20, 2020 19:59:44 GMT -5
isthisit, “taken the hint” as in I’m no longer trying to change the situation. I might compare it to accepting that a lesbian genuinely has no interest in me, and I can’t possibly be impressive enough to change that, even if I could manipulate her into going through the motions with me. W is who she is, and who I am doesn’t push her buttons. It’s less about viewpoint and more about desire. I’m past the emotional; that’s just facts. Acknowledging that paints a picture where the future is pretty clear, and it becomes a conscious decision between foregoing intimacy vs making a break. Both paths have hardships.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 21, 2020 3:44:56 GMT -5
isthisit , “taken the hint” as in I’m no longer trying to change the situation. I might compare it to accepting that a lesbian genuinely has no interest in me, and I can’t possibly be impressive enough to change that, even if I could manipulate her into going through the motions with me. W is who she is, and who I am doesn’t push her buttons. It’s less about viewpoint and more about desire. I’m past the emotional; that’s just facts. Acknowledging that paints a picture where the future is pretty clear, and it becomes a conscious decision between foregoing intimacy vs making a break. Both paths have hardships Aww, DryCreek, how did it decline, and how fast did it decline? 💙
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 21, 2020 4:02:09 GMT -5
DH stated that someone was coming over and what time would I like them to come. I thought, why is he asking me? I said, have them come over anytime. He said, okay, I will have them come at 5 and I am only going to give them a title. Later, I asked if he could bring a small gift for me and put it on the bed pillow. He smiled and said what would you like me to bring you? I said, I don't know, how about dark chocolate? I asked him what he would like me to bring him and he said I don't need anything. I will bring him ice cream.
Dear 💜hearts, I will look for the chocolate bar and if I don't see it, l will know he backed out and I won't bother asking him for a fun time.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Aug 21, 2020 9:22:16 GMT -5
DH stated that someone was coming over and what time would I like them to come. I thought, why is he asking me? I said, have them come over anytime. He said, okay, I will have them come at 5 and I am only going to give them a title. Later, I asked if he could bring a small gift for me and put it on the bed pillow. He smiled and said what would you like me to bring you? I said, I don't know, how about dark chocolate? I asked him what he would like me to bring him and he said I don't need anything. I will bring him ice cream. Dear 💜hearts, I will look for the chocolate bar and if I don't see it, l will know he backed out and I won't bother asking him for a fun time. I'm not sure I understand the significance or context here. Is it that you entertain lovers in your marital bed, and that your husband arranges for them to come over to have sex with you - and that the gift on the pillow symbolizes something? Sort of a way to include and center what's happening in his attention so he has a role?
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Aug 21, 2020 11:17:46 GMT -5
Aww, DryCreek, how did it decline, and how fast did it decline? 💙 ‘twas never there. Atypical story, but not completely rare. Married young and ignorant. All the red flags were there that she was only doing duty sex, even while dating, but I couldn’t see them. I thought skipping romance and foreplay while cutting to the chase was a guy’s Holy Grail. That was 30 years ago. I wrongly assumed that frequency and quality would pickup once married and neither of us was living with parents (because, who doesn’t like sex?); I eventually came to miss the intimacy too. Stuck with it through kids while trying to sort out why I was so repulsive. By the time I realized the truth, the hole was pretty deep.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 21, 2020 14:26:09 GMT -5
DH stated that someone was coming over and what time would I like them to come. I thought, why is he asking me? I said, have them come over anytime. He said, okay, I will have them come at 5 and I am only going to give them a title. Later, I asked if he could bring a small gift for me and put it on the bed pillow. He smiled and said what would you like me to bring you? I said, I don't know, how about dark chocolate? I asked him what he would like me to bring him and he said I don't need anything. I will bring him ice cream. Dear 💜hearts, I will look for the chocolate bar and if I don't see it, l will know he backed out and I won't bother asking him for a fun time. I'm not sure I understand the significance or context here. Is it that you entertain lovers in your marital bed, and that your husband arranges for them to come over to have sex with you - and that the gift on the pillow symbolizes something? Sort of a way to include and center what's happening in his attention so he has a role? I lost my post. Grrr. I'm not sure I understand the significance of it either. The only thing I could think of was that he was holding the day open in case I had any early plans for date night? It did tell me that he gave me consideration when making an appointment for a business transaction for himself. He left the marital bed when he was sure I was stepping out of the marriage for sex. I just could not go without sex for the rest of my life. He selected a bedroom on the other side of the house where he could shag his mattress privately and monitor my coming and leaving because that room is by the garage. He uses no hands during masturbation so I am guessing I cannot help him with that because he obviously likes to move his hips. I did support healthy masturbation when I was also getting sex. I also have a very sophisticated sex machine it is called the Hugher Tango TW11 fucking System. Various men contributed to many different combinations of pumping actions that they used on their own wives which can be done at any speed and can also be done at any depth. It has a remote so you can just lay face-up and with the Press of a button you can toggle through any of the speeds or different types of pumping actions. All of the different pumping actions are named so you can remember which ones you love the best. And when it thrusts it also moves your body slightly if you so choose. I suggest one to Every Woman whether she's getting sex or not. Also with another program it will shag you 2 any beat of any music. It is a sweet machine to own except that it can't kiss you back and there's no warm body which is really a lonely feeling if you're not already getting sex and intimacy. They are about$2,400 US sorry, price went way up. Edited to reflect the new price and everything used to come with it. Any vacu-lock dildo we'll fit on the attachment. I think they should attach a Fleshlight to them for the men. Although, he would have to expand his business because it already takes 3 months to get one. That was years ago. I don't know how sophisticated they are now and if they have changed models. www.fucktech.com/gallery/www.hugher.net/And they are very popular on fetlife.com I am guessing that the members have posted their videos since adult content is allowed.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 21, 2020 23:33:00 GMT -5
His business transaction was a long wait. He followed through... after watching Bill Maher I sat on a chair with porn to my back and him facing me. I had j lube heated if you are not familiar. Very slippery, and you can't ingest. Hot tea and beverages. I performed Ode to Brian, variation, Heart beat of America, hot tea fellatio with Lynx Natural Anal lubricant ( one of a few that can be ingested) l didn't have a cock ring. I could only get him up with milking pressure. That meant I could not let go of base. He told me I can't stay hard. I told him no worries, we can reconnect some morning when you are not stressed and rested. I laid with him. We didn't use the body slime. I can reheat it another day. 💜 FWB said to go crawl in bed with DH and take advantage of the morning woody.
|
|
|
Post by lessingham on Aug 22, 2020 3:39:13 GMT -5
The morning wood is the hardest. I awaken erect and full of dirty thoughts. My wife lies there, either asleep or awake. Awakening her puts her in an awful mood. If awake she is offended, saying I am running on hormones and she is just a convenient body. I neex a dead silent, no vibrating electronic morning wood relieving machine. Or a cold shower
|
|