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Post by sadkat on Jun 12, 2020 20:17:34 GMT -5
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Post by Handy on Jun 12, 2020 21:29:08 GMT -5
Cheating Is A Relationship Killer, But Here Are 6 Things That Are Even Worse 1. Withholding affection 2. Constant lies 3. Being underappreciated 4. Extreme jealousy 5. Communication issues 6. Staying together for the wrong reasons
I can relate to: 1, 3, 5, 6
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Post by blueguy on Jun 13, 2020 9:58:44 GMT -5
I definitely feel underappreciated. We've been pretty much sexless our nearly 20 years together and I don't know why I put up with it other than I feel so strongly regarding my vows, and we do have kids.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 13, 2020 13:30:58 GMT -5
I definitely feel underappreciated. We've been pretty much sexless our nearly 20 years together and I don't know why I put up with it other than I feel so strongly regarding my vows, and we do have kids. Why do YOU feel strongly about your vows if she's not reciprocating your faithfulness to them? Didn't she also vow to have and hold you? Where's the holding? The caring about your needs on her part? It's supposed to be reciprocal, not just a one way money grab by her!
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 14, 2020 3:24:00 GMT -5
I definitely feel underappreciated. We've been pretty much sexless our nearly 20 years together and I don't know why I put up with it other than I feel so strongly regarding my vows, and we do have kids. Be careful. At twenty years the laws of my home state make alimony permanent. My advice is, no matter if you think you might ever consider divorce or not, get your wife into the workforce if she is not already. If you can, sandbag your income so you make no more than your refusing spouse. It was my refusing wife that chose divorce, and in a no fault state there was not much I could do but move forward from there. I hope not, but you may find yourself in similar circumstances.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Jun 14, 2020 16:45:34 GMT -5
All but extreme jealousy
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Post by carl on Jun 16, 2020 1:19:29 GMT -5
It saddens me deeply that the only marriage vow my wife is interested in is my being faithful to her which I am. She’s very very clear on that and would criticise infidelity to the end of the earth. I have now said in order to be completely honest that although I don’t wish to cheat anybody that the omission of sex from our relationship just makes that situation more likely and that the costs to our relationship would be far greater than infidelity alone. Maybe I could ask you all anyway, what would you class as infidelity. It doesn’t really bother me but I am sometimes curious about people’s opinion. It’s a grey area.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 16, 2020 2:22:58 GMT -5
Infidelity is a grey area. There are a lot of "it depends" situations.
As a general rule, sex outside the marriage is infidelity, but a couple with an open relationship does not neccessary have that restriction so long as the rules they set are followed. Flipped around yet another way, the traditional marriage vows which many people take includes the promise of "to have and to hold," poetic language for sexual intimacy. Thus, a spouse that refuses to be intimate is just as unfaithful as a spouse that is fucking the mail carrier every day.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 16, 2020 12:53:40 GMT -5
carl, group consensus is interesting but probably irrelevant. For one, we’re likely of a different mindset. For another, the standard she holds you to is based on *her* definition of infidelity, not what we or society say. For her, maybe infidelity only includes penetrative sex. Or maybe it means having regular casual conversations and a friendship bond. It’s a spectrum, and she’s likely to be on the more possessive end if she knows she isn’t meeting your needs, because she’ll see it as a threat.
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Post by isthisit on Jun 16, 2020 13:16:08 GMT -5
carl , group consensus is interesting but probably irrelevant. For one, we’re likely of a different mindset. For another, the standard she holds you to is based on *her* definition of infidelity, not what we or society say. For her, maybe infidelity only includes penetrative sex. Or maybe it means having regular casual conversations and a friendship bond. It’s a spectrum, and she’s likely to be on the more possessive end if she knows she isn’t meeting your needs, because she’ll see it as a threat. Oh yes. I would bet a lot of money that DryCreek is spot on here. carl your wife is very likely to have zero tolerance whatsoever of any contact with any female over sixteen and under ninety. This is absolutely because she knows full well that you are unfulfilled in your marriage and also why this is the case. Back when I gave a damn I was very sanguine about my H’s activities with other females because I knew that he was happy in our marriage and that he has a great deal of integrity. Despite this I would have little tolerance for much past a platonic hug or arm in arm thing. I doubt he would either.
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Post by csl on Jun 16, 2020 14:39:14 GMT -5
Let's talk about INFIDELITY, baby, Let's talk about you and he/she: This word, INFIDELITY, is thrown around by everybody who's anybody as the one and ONLY unforgivable marital sin. As an architect, I find that the fine print matters a whole hell of a lot when it comes to building codes, contracts, construction documents, and the courts. (Not that the courts give a damn about wedding vows... but I do) ... FORSAKE:1 : to renounce or surrender (as a custom or practice formerly held dear)
<promised to forsake his bad habits if she would marry him>2 : to quit or leave entirely : depart or withdraw from : leave, desert, abandon <false friends forsake us in adversity><forsook the theater for a career in politics> I will let the vows, paired with a good dictionary speak for themselves, except for this regarding the phrase "forsaking all others": I believe that while we are supposed to be forsaking all others (everybody else, whether a prospective sexual partner or not) to the extent they are getting in the way of our relationship with our spouses, there is a clear implication to me in this context that we are not supposed to forsake our spouse, (who is not one of the "others" in this context.) Well folks, them's the fine print according to most others. Unfortunately, most others continue to ignore the realities of marriage and promote false narratives. My marriage ended this month. I am confident that infidelity was not the reason. Items 1-6 referenced in sadkat 's article each played a role. Each of these 1-6 is a clear violation of the vows, while "infidelity" is somewhat less of an offense by my interpretation. I am not innocent - I reciprocated at least 5 of these back to my X. The straw that ultimately broke this marriage's back was not 1 (although as Rod Stewart sang, the 1st cut is the deepest), but a composite of 2, 4 and 5, all rolled up into one deal-breaking conversation. I wrote about this on my blog: But let’s examine that vow a little closer. That vow, that promise of fidelity to your spouse? It has two sides, doesn’t it?
1 – “forsake all others” 2 – “keeping myself only unto thee”
The vow of marital fidelity is FROM others TO you. The installation of a regime of sexual refusal into the marriage means that one spouse has decided, unilaterally, to rewrite the vow and tells the other that the vow now reads, “keeping myself from thee, as well.” When one spouse decides that the sex within the marriage is over, the promise of marital fidelity is broken. S/he may have forsaken others, but s/he has also decided to forsake thee, too.
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Post by Handy on Jun 16, 2020 15:43:27 GMT -5
I was on a forum for a while and a majority of the other posters were female. When it came to fidelity, the women on that forum said that an emotional affair was worse than a sexual affair. So, a H talking about personal stuff with another woman was a BIG deal for the women on that forum. Some women asked me why men talk to other women about personal issues so I listed a few reasons why. Some replies were polite and some were accusatory. For me that forum became a place where I was criticized. It did start out friendly but after a while it wasn't a place where I wanted to read or post.
The web site owner writes relationship books and quoted some of my post (permission given) so she sent me a copy of her latest book.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 16, 2020 16:44:05 GMT -5
Just stick to this forum, Handy. This is the best one. 😏😉 I think the Reddit dead bedrooms sub has some I interesting stuff, but it's not as intellectual and discerning as this one. We're high falutin' here! 😂
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Post by csl on Jun 16, 2020 17:14:02 GMT -5
I was on a forum for a while and a majority of the other posters were female. When it came to fidelity, the women on that forum said that an emotional affair was worse than a sexual affair. So, a H talking about personal stuff with another woman was a BIG deal for the women on that forum. Some women asked me why men talk to other women about personal issues so I listed a few reasons why. Some replies were polite and some were accusatory. For me that forum became a place where I was criticized. It did start out friendly but after a while it wasn't a place where I wanted to read or post. The web site owner writes relationship books and quoted some of my post (permission given) so she sent me a copy of her latest book. Just on the off-chance, SWG?
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Post by sadkat on Jun 16, 2020 17:29:35 GMT -5
carl , group consensus is interesting but probably irrelevant. For one, we’re likely of a different mindset. For another, the standard she holds you to is based on *her* definition of infidelity, not what we or society say. For her, maybe infidelity only includes penetrative sex. Or maybe it means having regular casual conversations and a friendship bond. It’s a spectrum, and she’s likely to be on the more possessive end if she knows she isn’t meeting your needs, because she’ll see it as a threat. Oh yes. I would bet a lot of money that DryCreek is spot on here. carl your wife is very likely to have zero tolerance whatsoever of any contact with any female over sixteen and under ninety. This is absolutely because she knows full well that you are unfulfilled in your marriage and also why this is the case. Back when I gave a damn I was very sanguine about my H’s activities with other females because I knew that he was happy in our marriage and that he has a great deal of integrity. Despite this I would have little tolerance for much past a platonic hug or arm in arm thing. I doubt he would either. I often wonder if I would still feel as possessive if I were 100% comfortable in a sexual relationship. Hopefully I’ll be able to put that to the test one day. Today, I know for sure I’m not willing to share a man I’m intimate with. Platonic discussions aside, of course. isthisit- I recall you told us about a time when you offered to purchase a special massage for h while on a holiday. I’m not sure I could even do that. 🤷♀️. I consider possessiveness as one of my most negative traits- I am upfront about it, though.
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