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Post by saarinista on Mar 23, 2020 23:30:35 GMT -5
dbflma I'd think long and hard about whether antidepressants are what you need. In retrospect, I now believe that a lot of the reason I've been so depressed for so long is because I've remained in a sexless marriage and suffered that and the fall out of it. FYI, I do take antidepressants. I guess they help. But I'm still not happy in my miserable marriage. p If you want to try antidepressants, be aware that while often very useful, they can have side effects. Not horrible ones, but possible. They also can be challenging to stop taking without having brain zaps, an upset stomach and so forth. In brief it sounds like what you really need to do is face the fact that your marriage is miserable. That might be the main reason you're depressed. "Covering up" the depression with drugs instead of dealing with it might not be the best thing to do, ultimately.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Mar 24, 2020 7:10:57 GMT -5
Interestingly enough saarinista, I was talking with a friend yesterday that's aware of my current situation and this very topic came up. She knows that I love my wife and that she's a good person and despite the lack of sex throughout our marriage, I only wish the best for her. This is a topic that I've struggled with recently, falsely believing that there should be more animosity between us that clearly spells the reason to divorce. It's just not the case in my circumstance. If I end up deciding that I need to move forward with divorce, I will do everything I can to ensure it's done in a loving and caring way.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 24, 2020 7:21:17 GMT -5
Dbfmla I don't think it has to be ugly or hate involved. I didn't do it to him I did it for me. I set him up as well as I could. Paid off bills. Built up a little savings split it. Set up his bill pay online. Because he had never paid bills. I went through it all with him. Made him a budget like I used. It was ugly only because he wouldn't quit guilting me and causing drama. And I still watch the dogs for him almost 3 years later.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Mar 24, 2020 7:47:11 GMT -5
I'm still coming to terms with what it is that will truly make me happy angeleyes65; however, if that road is to move towards divorce, I intend to still respect and love her throughout the process and beyond. Consciously or subconsciously I was looking for reasons to be upset with her in order to alleviate the guilt I feel for not wanting to keep working at this aspect of our relationship. It's hard to just think that we are not a good match sexually and that's all there is to it. I'm trying to take ownership of that fact.
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 24, 2020 9:52:13 GMT -5
Interestingly enough saarinista , I was talking with a friend yesterday that's aware of my current situation and this very topic came up. She knows that I love my wife and that she's a good person and despite the lack of sex throughout our marriage, I only wish the best for her. This is a topic that I've struggled with recently, falsely believing that there should be more animosity between us that clearly spells the reason to divorce. It's just not the case in my circumstance. If I end up deciding that I need to move forward with divorce, I will do everything I can to ensure it's done in a loving and caring way. Your situation reminds me of my own. When I finally decided that I wouldn't continue to live a celibate life it was made more difficult by the fact that my then W was basically a decent person. She just didn't love or care about me the same way I did for her. Her lack of libido wasn't her fault, it was just the aging process diminishing her hormones. I still cared for her, I still do to this day, but I know our parting was the best thing for us. It would be easier if she was a bad person. But deciding to separate from her doesn't make you a bad person. You are in a relationship that isn't right for either of you. Like a business deal gone sour. At some point it makes more sense to cut your loses and dissolve the deal than to continue. Emotions make it harder to see this. I am not advising you to dissolve the marriage; clearly that is your decision to make. And if it has to be done then you want to know in your heart you did all you could to make a go of it. I applaud your intent to do everything possible to ensure it is done in a loving and caring way. I took the same approach and we are still friends. Whatever your coarse of action, staying or separation, I wish you the best of luck.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Mar 24, 2020 11:18:19 GMT -5
Where I question myself worksforme2 is how does one know when they've done all they could? I guess it's more of a rhetorical question. I suppose there's always something else that could be done or there's always something yet to be discovered that you hadn't thought about. I often wonder if it should really take such a herculean effort to be sexually intimate with one another? Does a normal and healthy relationship require this type of effort? It's what makes me cringe whenever my wife mentions going to a sex therapist and to keep working at it. We tried that before and were provided exercises or "homework". It’s hard to imagine a more sure-fire way of draining intimacy from a relationship than repurposing it as “homework”.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 30, 2020 16:30:16 GMT -5
Where I question myself worksforme2 is how does one know when they've done all they could? I guess it's more of a rhetorical question. I suppose there's always something else that could be done or there's always something yet to be discovered that you hadn't thought about. I often wonder if it should really take such a herculean effort to be sexually intimate with one another? Does a normal and healthy relationship require this type of effort? It's what makes me cringe whenever my wife mentions going to a sex therapist and to keep working at it. We tried that before and were provided exercises or "homework". It’s hard to imagine a more sure-fire way of draining intimacy from a relationship than repurposing it as “homework”.I There's always something else you could do. I played that game for a long time - opened my relationship a crack, even. I probably could have gone even farther - but one thing I noticed in my marriage was that no matter what appeasement, adjustment, revolution, self-reflection and growth, and/or accommodation I did - there was always just one or more hurdles to clear before sex was going to be easier. After a few years of that level of adjustment, it went back to zero. What I've come to learn in that relationships and that's been reinforced in later relationships - is that it isn't all that useful to frame the question of suitability in terms of how much I'm willing to try. Yes, relationships have conflict and require two people to contend with each other. Doing more - has little correlation with success. Contempt though, has a strong correlation with celibacy within a relationship. Sex isn't a hard thing to do. Even when it's inconvenient or difficult, or risking dire consequences - people still have sex with people they shouldn't, in places or circumstances where it might be unwise and where the cost might be high. What's apparent in most celibate relationships isn't indifference to sex - it's clear that sex has a lot of meaning and that it's very important to someone to avoid it with their partner. Why? For a reason - some reason that results in contempt or the destruction of respect or attraction. It's always work to have sex with someone who you really don't want to have sex with. It's not that hard to at least say yes to someone who you are indifferent to - so this isn't really indifference. When I'm making decisions on my path in a relationship these days, I think back to my marriage and try not to make the same mistakes. When I'm negotiating a conflict in a relationship, I pay a lot of attention to how my partner "shows up". Are they trying to disqualify me and my needs, to make me make a case for the existence of the relationship? Or are they presuming they want it to continue, and negotiating and contending with me with that hopeful outcome in mind (including the sex)?
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Mar 31, 2020 11:33:05 GMT -5
As an update to my current status, I told my wife that I'd like to separate for a period of time that is not defined yet. I don't know what else to do and the ball is really in my court. She says all the right things about wanting to work at our relationship, go to sex therapy, go to individual counseling (her and me), and that she believe we can get to a place that's mutually good for both of us. I'm not convinced and feel like I don't have the energy to continue working at it with her at this time. I'm afraid my AP has tainted things now that I know what it's like to connect with someone on a physical, emotional and spiritual level. I would have to end things with her completely and as my therapist said the other day, "she'd have to be dead to you in order to not compromise any potential reconciliation with your wife". So, I told my wife I need to separate. I need to get the time and space away from her to see if I miss her so much that I'm willing to go back and work at things even if I know that our sex life would never equal the one I could have with my AP. Taking things day-by-day at the moment.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 31, 2020 13:16:57 GMT -5
As an update to my current status, I told my wife that I'd like to separate for a period of time that is not defined yet. I don't know what else to do and the ball is really in my court. She says all the right things about wanting to work at our relationship, go to sex therapy, go to individual counseling (her and me), and that she believe we can get to a place that's mutually good for both of us. I'm not convinced and feel like I don't have the energy to continue working at it with her at this time. I'm afraid my AP has tainted things n ow that I know what it's like to connect with someone on a physical, emotional and spiritual level. I would have to end things with her completely and as my therapist said the other day, "she'd have to be dead to you in order to not compromise any potential reconciliation with your wife". So, I told my wife I need to separate. I need to get the time and space away from her to see if I miss her so much that I'm willing to go back and work at things even if I know that our sex life would never equal the one I could have with my AP. Taking things day-by-day at the moment. One of the things I learned in my open relationship, and an outcome that I have observed consistently in affairs, is that they go into it expecting to bleed the steam and neglect and whatever dysfunction they feel so they can make their primary relationship more survivable - but it so often ends up having the opposite effect. In my case, it meant that my standard for what constitutes a satisfying physical/emotional connection went up - not down - and my primary relationship was not exempted. And when my then-wife engaged in her affair, prior to all that - she became openly hostile and contemptuous within our primary relationship - making absurd excuses to fight with with me, such as "making a mess in the kitchen when I cooked her an elaborate fine-restaurant quality dinner." Another thing I'd caution about scenarios in which one compares "the affair" with "the marriage" - as opposed to evaluating the marriage on its own merits vs being alone, irrespective of another partner waiting - is that once you leave the marriage, a defining aspect of the affair dissipates, and may make it untenable to continue. People who engage in affairs with married people are often looking specifically for a relationship with the safety of a baked in limit to emotional investment. When that person becomes fully available and ready to go, along with all the baggage of a separated person - the romantic equation shifta into a different kind of thing. THere's also the level of responsibility and accountability one takes for one's own decisions to consider. I'd not want to "feel responsible" for someone leaving their marriage to enter into what's likely a comparatively short term relationship (so far). There are no guarantees, and if the expectation is switch one long term romantic lifestyle for something that's equal and the same or better - that's a massive responsibility to drop on someone if it doesn't work out.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Apr 2, 2020 10:09:03 GMT -5
I haven't left the house yet even though I said we should separate. It feels so sad to leave my home and with all 3 kids at home from college because of this virus, it feels like an even bigger loss and a lonely time for me. I'm starting to backtrack and questioning that I'm doing the right thing. Maybe it's due to the amount of sadness I feel. I can see why people stay in a SM when things are not all that bad otherwise. Maybe I just haven't reached the breaking-point. Perhaps I'm just bargaining with myself that there's more I could be doing to save my marriage. She wants to work at it so why do I feel it's hopeless?
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 2, 2020 11:39:59 GMT -5
More often than not when one reads the stories here it isn't just about the sex, although that is certainly a part of it for most. It is the lack of intimacy in general, the disrespect that often accompanies the sexless aspect of the relationship. It is the constant reminder that you as a person are not to be desired as a mate and not really worthy of being a partner in the relationship. And even with all this going on those of us who have left often spend considerable time second guessing ourselves about the decision we made. It's normal when so much time, effort and resources have been invested. And there is the kids aspect. We all ask ourselves these questions as you are doing. Your W wants to work on it. How much do you want to work on it? Usually by the time someone arrives here it's mostly too late to do any more work on it. And if it is to be worked on that is a commitment that both of you must make. And it can't be gone at in a half-hearted manor. You are either all in or you are out when it comes to therapy or counselling. Otherwise you are probably wasting your time. It reads like you need to have some more discussion with your W as to why she thinks counselling would help her change the way she sees you? And how does she see therapy working for you?. What about you needs to be changed for her to perceive you differently, and thus treat you differently? What is there that remains in the relationship (in her mind) that would allow it to be made into something that brings harmony back into the picture?
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Post by angeleyes65 on Apr 2, 2020 12:37:58 GMT -5
dbflma To add to the other great responses. Unfortunately if you didn't leave now with the pandemic going on probably isn't the time to make that move. Moving out of even a bad marriage is emotional and an adjustment trying to do it with social distancing going on , everything closed and your kids home from college would just make it traumatic. My opinion for what it's worth stay until things open back up. Enjoy the time with your kids. Work on your marriage or don't but either way observe her behavior towards you and your feelings towards her.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Apr 2, 2020 14:32:43 GMT -5
worksforme2 you have some great questions and insight. I believe you're right and that it's not just about sex. It's about the lack of intimacy in general and the fact that this has eluded both of us for most of our marriage. Perhaps if either one or both of us recognized this fact at the beginning of our marriage we could have accomplished more. With so much time gone and having already spent years in both individual and couples therapy, I have little energy left to work at it. I also can't undo the experience I have had being with someone else where both physical and emotional intimacy was present. So, I know what it should feel like and I've never experienced that with my wife and highly doubt it's possible with therapy given what has transpired between us over the years. My wife is certainly willing to work at it and has expressed that to me many times recently; however, this aspect (intimacy) of our relationship has historically been absent. I don't know what my wife sees or believes that would suggest this would ever truly change.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 2, 2020 19:30:40 GMT -5
worksforme2 you have some great questions and insight. I believe you're right and that it's not just about sex. It's about the lack of intimacy in general and the fact that this has eluded both of us for most of our marriage. Perhaps if either one or both of us recognized this fact at the beginning of our marriage we could have accomplished more. With so much time gone and having already spent years in both individual and couples therapy, I have little energy left to work at it. I also can't undo the experience I have had being with someone else where both physical and emotional intimacy was present. So, I know what it should feel like and I've never experienced that with my wife and highly doubt it's possible with therapy given what has transpired between us over the years. My wife is certainly willing to work at it and has expressed that to me many times recently; however, this aspect (intimacy) of our relationship has historically been absent. I don't know what my wife sees or believes that would suggest this would ever truly change. In your earlier posts, you seemed to have made the decision to separate from your wife shortly after you were feeling some heat from your AP. I'm curious/suspicious as to why. Because she wants to be married to you instead? Why? Is that anything you want? Is she that good a match or was she a great match because she was willing to be your mistress? Objectively, should you be with her if you divorce? She needs to be marriage material on her own merits. Gratitude may lay a heavy hand on your conscience but it's no favor to make her a future divorcee. Guilt is probably a bad reason to get hitched. What vision for single life do you have? The things you do? The people you associate with? Likely much of it can be started now. New hobbies, clubs, interests, friends? (looking through old address books to reconnect, finding Meetup groups you can join, finding a volunteer opportunity, finding a class to take, getting a part time job that'll let you get paid to learn a skill you want, etc. Reconnaissance) Do you need to cultivate a dating profile? When I decided I was finished with being celibate, throwing myself into constructing a winning dating profile was empowering beyond words. Taking steps towards solving my problem made that problem so much less heavy. To top it off, as a consequence, my wife reset in December and the dating has been on hold.
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dbflma
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Post by dbflma on Apr 3, 2020 6:33:05 GMT -5
Thanks for your post mirrororchid! I believe that my AP is "marriage material". I would not be with her if this was just about a fling or casual sex. However, that being said, I'm not ready to remarry and she may not even be who I end up with in the long run. She's an incredible person and someone I have certainly connected with on all levels; however, I'm also aware that I'm not just going to marry her because I'm grateful for what she's shown me. I truly believe that we've helped each other as she always reminds me that no one has ever made her feel as loved and cared for as I have. I genuinely do love her and care for her and treat her better than anyone she's been with in past relationships. I know she wants to spend the rest of her life with me. If there comes a time when I don't feel the same, I would just have to be honest with her and let her go. As for creating a dating profile and just getting out there to explore, I'm very comfortable and confident I could do that. When you say your wife reset in December and dating has been on hold, what do you mean??
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