dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 16, 2020 20:28:04 GMT -5
Again I read everyone's comments and do appreciate them. I'm close to just telling my wife that I can't keep living like this and that I'm not being "true and authentic" to myself and her. Although I love my wife and have remained committed for far too long I can't keep doing this. What I used to do before was go to massage parlors or have brief sexual encounters. These would get my sexual needs taken care of for a while but they were detrimental to how I felt about myself. I no longer want to do this as they have left me feeling hollow and alone more than anything. They served a purpose at one time and I've come to realize that it allowed me to stay in the marriage while my kids were growing up. Now they are essentially out of the house and all in college. I don't know whether or not I'll stay with my AP and I'm certainly not leaving my marriage just because of her. However, she has shown me that it's possible to be in a loving and caring relationship that includes physical intimacy as well as an emotional intimacy. This is something I never would have experienced had I not met her. I believe that I would have just continued along in my marriage always thinking that it's "okay". I feel incredibly sad about telling my wife that we need to divorce. I know that she wants to continue working on the relationship and to be honest, I believe she's okay with trying to work on being sexual with me but it just would never feel right. We haven't had sex in 15+ years so how could it get even remotely close to being even half-way decent. I don't believe she needs that in a relationship and she doesn't believe I'm that sexual either because I'm not with her. I am with others, and for obvious reasons I can't tell her that. But I'm living a lie if I just continue on in our marriage knowing that I'm not sexually attracted to her. I will always feel like I settled and the depression that I have had about our relationship over the years will eventually get worse, especially knowing that there's a more wholesome and authentic relationship that I can experience. Sometimes I wish my wife wasn't such a good person and care for me as much as she does. This is why I'm having a hard time saying we need to divorce. I chicken out every time I have the opportunity to bring it up. I need to somehow move forward without feeling like I'm a selfish/bad person for just having the feelings I have.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Mar 16, 2020 22:54:57 GMT -5
Brother dbflma . The introduction of a 3rd party into an already struggling situation is inevitably a game changer. It can spin things off out of control into assorted directions, and you've got no idea which direction your situation might veer off to. It is however, highly likely that whatever direction it veers off to, that the end of the line will likely be divorce. Possibly at your instigation, possibly at your missus' instigation. My suggestion would be to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish - at least in theoretical terms - how a divorce would shake out for you. You would at least be somewhat better informed as to your options, and the only way you are going to be able to make a fully informed and objective choice is by gathering the appropriate information. I would counsel you not to mention divorce to your missus until you have checked that option out in detail. And even then, don't "threaten" such action - UNLESS you are actually prepared to go the distance.
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Mar 19, 2020 4:24:25 GMT -5
...I need to somehow move forward without feeling like I'm a selfish/bad person for just having the feelings I have. How you feel is up to you. I did not want to feel like a selfish or bad person, either. I get that. But, your other options are what? This is all your move, because she is comfortable with the status quo and not concerned with your discomfort. Stay and be miserable, always thinking of yourself as the bad guy, or be honest with yourself.
|
|
|
Post by tamara68 on Mar 19, 2020 8:48:16 GMT -5
Again I read everyone's comments and do appreciate them. I'm close to just telling my wife that I can't keep living like this and that I'm not being "true and authentic" to myself and her. Although I love my wife and have remained committed for far too long I can't keep doing this. What I used to do before was go to massage parlors or have brief sexual encounters. These would get my sexual needs taken care of for a while but they were detrimental to how I felt about myself. I no longer want to do this as they have left me feeling hollow and alone more than anything. They served a purpose at one time and I've come to realize that it allowed me to stay in the marriage while my kids were growing up. Now they are essentially out of the house and all in college. I don't know whether or not I'll stay with my AP and I'm certainly not leaving my marriage just because of her. However, she has shown me that it's possible to be in a loving and caring relationship that includes physical intimacy as well as an emotional intimacy. This is something I never would have experienced had I not met her. I believe that I would have just continued along in my marriage always thinking that it's "okay". I feel incredibly sad about telling my wife that we need to divorce. I know that she wants to continue working on the relationship and to be honest, I believe she's okay with trying to work on being sexual with me but it just would never feel right. We haven't had sex in 15+ years so how could it get even remotely close to being even half-way decent. I don't believe she needs that in a relationship and she doesn't believe I'm that sexual either because I'm not with her. I am with others, and for obvious reasons I can't tell her that. But I'm living a lie if I just continue on in our marriage knowing that I'm not sexually attracted to her. I will always feel like I settled and the depression that I have had about our relationship over the years will eventually get worse, especially knowing that there's a more wholesome and authentic relationship that I can experience. Sometimes I wish my wife wasn't such a good person and care for me as much as she does. This is why I'm having a hard time saying we need to divorce. I chicken out every time I have the opportunity to bring it up. I need to somehow move forward without feeling like I'm a selfish/bad person for just having the feelings I have. Your wife probably is a good friend, but she is not functioning as a wife. 15+ years without sex, that is highly unlikely to transform into enjoyable sex. Your wife may be serious in wanting to try to fix something, but if she doesn't desire you sexually, she will not be able to change that. So many others here have similar stories. Even spouses who tried to change, they fail. It is a matter of not fitting together sexually. The AP has opened up a new world for you. This can not be undone. This is what I have experienced as well. I have been together with my ex for about 30 years, half of that time was sexless. Affair partners showed me there was a whole different life possible. It is a difficult decision. Many here who have eventually left their sexless spouse, have been struggling with that for years before making a decision. This forum is an excellent place to get your thoughts sorted and prepare you for making decisions.
|
|
dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 19, 2020 9:33:52 GMT -5
Again I read everyone's comments and do appreciate them. I'm close to just telling my wife that I can't keep living like this and that I'm not being "true and authentic" to myself and her. Although I love my wife and have remained committed for far too long I can't keep doing this. What I used to do before was go to massage parlors or have brief sexual encounters. These would get my sexual needs taken care of for a while but they were detrimental to how I felt about myself. I no longer want to do this as they have left me feeling hollow and alone more than anything. They served a purpose at one time and I've come to realize that it allowed me to stay in the marriage while my kids were growing up. Now they are essentially out of the house and all in college. I don't know whether or not I'll stay with my AP and I'm certainly not leaving my marriage just because of her. However, she has shown me that it's possible to be in a loving and caring relationship that includes physical intimacy as well as an emotional intimacy. This is something I never would have experienced had I not met her. I believe that I would have just continued along in my marriage always thinking that it's "okay". I feel incredibly sad about telling my wife that we need to divorce. I know that she wants to continue working on the relationship and to be honest, I believe she's okay with trying to work on being sexual with me but it just would never feel right. We haven't had sex in 15+ years so how could it get even remotely close to being even half-way decent. I don't believe she needs that in a relationship and she doesn't believe I'm that sexual either because I'm not with her. I am with others, and for obvious reasons I can't tell her that. But I'm living a lie if I just continue on in our marriage knowing that I'm not sexually attracted to her. I will always feel like I settled and the depression that I have had about our relationship over the years will eventually get worse, especially knowing that there's a more wholesome and authentic relationship that I can experience. Sometimes I wish my wife wasn't such a good person and care for me as much as she does. This is why I'm having a hard time saying we need to divorce. I chicken out every time I have the opportunity to bring it up. I need to somehow move forward without feeling like I'm a selfish/bad person for just having the feelings I have. Your wife probably is a good friend, but she is not functioning as a wife. 15+ years without sex, that is highly unlikely to transform into enjoyable sex. Your wife may be serious in wanting to try to fix something, but if she doesn't desire you sexually, she will not be able to change that. So many others here have similar stories. Even spouses who tried to change, they fail. It is a matter of not fitting together sexually. The AP has opened up a new world for you. This can not be undone. This is what I have experienced as well. I have been together with my ex for about 30 years, half of that time was sexless. Affair partners showed me there was a whole different life possible. It is a difficult decision. Many here who have eventually left their sexless spouse, have been struggling with that for years before making a decision. This forum is an excellent place to get your thoughts sorted and prepare you for making decisions. You are so right. I have read so many stories on here about the struggle of making a decision. My wife is really pushing me to see a psychiatrist and get on antidepressants. She believes my depression needs to be fixed first before we can work on our relationship. There's no doubt that I'm depressed, but being married with little hope that we will ever experience the type of intimacy I crave is the culprit. Getting on antidepressants, the majority of which have negative sexual side effects, is not the likely answer to our problem.
|
|
|
Post by tamara68 on Mar 19, 2020 10:02:15 GMT -5
You are so right. I have read so many stories on here about the struggle of making a decision. My wife is really pushing me to see a psychiatrist and get on antidepressants. She believes my depression needs to be fixed first before we can work on our relationship. There's no doubt that I'm depressed, but being married with little hope that we will ever experience the type of intimacy I crave is the culprit. Getting on antidepressants, the majority of which have negative sexual side effects, is not the likely answer to our problem.
Your wife thinks from her point of view and it makes sense that she is seeing the problem is you. She doesn't want or can see that your depression is not the cause but the result of your problems (with the marriage). Don't take your wife's words as facts. Think for yourself. Read the book Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward (I recommend that to everyone here) iliasm.org/thread/787/emotional-blackmailI suppose your wife is not a psychiatrist. Her advice of fixing depression before working on your relationship is not based on anything but her own feeling of not being the problem. Your depression is not to be seen seperate from your marriage. Antidepression have negative sexual side effects, that is true. Some here have taken these meds on purpose for that reason, but it seems that when you want your libido to drop, it doesn't have enough of that effect. Antidepressants can make you feel better, maybe to the extend that you become more active and maybe you can use that for seeing a lawyer or doing other things to invest in the future. But feeling better by meds can also make you feel optimistic when there is not any reason to be optimistic... I think you are right that anidepressants are not the answer. They can be very helpful though in some cases, but better not to take them too easily and not as first option. I have used antidepressants for several years, it made me get through very difficult times. When I had sex again in my life I didn't need them anymore. (also didn't want them anymore because of the side-effects.) Some therapists find it useless to treat people who take antidepressants because their feelings are flattened. therapy has not as much effect as with 'clean' people. You are depressed for a reason. It is good to allow yourself to feel whatever you feel. That will help to getting your thoughts sorted.
|
|
dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 19, 2020 13:08:18 GMT -5
Thanks for your words tamara68. I ordered the book from Amazon. And you're right that she doesn't want to believe that the relationship is the cause. Although maybe she does but won't actually voice the concern. Recently I asked her about our history and specifically why, if she truly believed she's a sexual person, did she not complain about our lack of intimacy for the last 15 years. She said she didn't bring it up because she was afraid of the answer: that I just wasn't into her. So even though that may have been true, her inability to communicate and get things out on the table just perpetuated our sexless life.
|
|
|
Post by frednsa on Mar 19, 2020 16:27:21 GMT -5
the great unknown is how you'll feel when you break it off with your wife. guilt, regret, remorse, (sometimes gold does not glitter). you must have loved your wife prior to her becoming your disinterested refuser. i am in similar circumstances but for much longer. not as many options. trying to focus on her lovable qualities and not her frigidity. tough job ! hanging in there. good luck !
|
|
dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 19, 2020 17:36:05 GMT -5
You're right frednsa - it is the great unknown. Even though I haven't officially broken things off we are close. And I've gone through the range of emotions that include guilt, regret, remorse, etc., all without having officially ending things. I love my wife and always will. That's what makes this an extremely uncomfortable position to be in and why I wonder if I'll regret leaving. No one has that answer other than a higher power. I continue to pray for the knowledge that I'm doing the right thing.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Mar 20, 2020 10:30:33 GMT -5
You're right frednsa - it is the great unknown. Even though I haven't officially broken things off we are close. And I've gone through the range of emotions that include guilt, regret, remorse, etc., all without having officially ending things. I love my wife and always will. That's what makes this an extremely uncomfortable position to be in and why I wonder if I'll regret leaving. No one has that answer other than a higher power. I continue to pray for the knowledge that I'm doing the right thing. You are likely in relationships with many people who you love, but where there is no expectation of the kind of love that involves sexual expression. That's a different kind of naked. You might have a have a sister, a mother, aunts, lifelong best friends, in-laws. Coworkers. It's not unusual to have intimate relations and to maintain them, without being tethered to this fantasy that there is some other expectation happening there. You aren't wrong to love each other. After this amount of time, you can't possibly be wrong in acknowledging that your relationship as it is, does not include sexual expression and won't. It's possible you each can find it with other people, but you certainly don't with each other. It strikes me that this is adjusting the fiction you tell to each other and the world, to resemble something that's more true to each of you. What potential do you have as individuals and possibly still relating to each other, if you explore the truth.
|
|
dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 20, 2020 11:56:46 GMT -5
Thanks for your comment Apocrypha. I've held on this long for various reasons, none of which make that much sense anymore. And even though there's little, if any, hope to turn things around, I'm still struggling to call it quits. I grow more and more depressed and desperate each day. I thought I was a much stronger person before this.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Mar 20, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5
Thanks for your comment Apocrypha . I've held on this long for various reasons, none of which make that much sense anymore. And even though there's little, if any, hope to turn things around, I'm still struggling to call it quits. I grow more and more depressed and desperate each day. I thought I was a much stronger person before this. This is normal - especially, ironically, for anyone who has extraordinary reserves of endurance and who is willing to withstand nearly anything. In a toxic loop, you might even view the difficulty and loneliness you are willing to endure as (false) evidence that you two are particularly suited for each other as romantic partners, because who else would put up with what you put up with. As a coping mechanism, people reach for that moral validation that one day, somewhere in the future, she/he will finally realize and see what you've gone through and the size of the sacrifice. Except that BOTH of you are making the same sacrifice. BOTH of you are in a married relationship and choosing to continue it, with the cost of continuing it being celibacy, because your partner is not suitable (either not seeing you as a sexual partner, or not desiring the other as a sexual partner). Both of you have taken, in effect, an oath of celibacy, similar to a priesthood, to continue this relationship as is. Would either of you agree to that if you were to marry tomorrow? I think it can be healthy to reframe the way you look at this and define what precisely you are quitting. Both of you are living a fantasy and a lie of a married life. It takes an enormous amount of energy to do this. Quitting the lie, and simply telling the truth to each other - of what you have obviously already been living in your day to day for over a decade - isn't necessarily changing the way you relate at all. It's just not lying about it. It's true that choosing not to lie about it might introduce consequences that the other could invoke irrespective of you. But if you are considering an affair (and if she is, realistically - I, and others, have all had the rudest surprise this way), then you are already at a stage where unpredictable risks can happen. You don't necessarily have to end up in the worst place with all this. Consider together what the most amicable version of a separated relationship might look like for each of you, where the conversation is about how to best position the both of you for success.
|
|
dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by dbflma on Mar 20, 2020 15:57:51 GMT -5
"Both of you are living a fantasy and a lie of a married life. It takes an enormous amount of energy to do this." Apocrypha it takes an amazing amount of energy to constantly have this on my mind.
|
|
|
Post by rdp62 on Mar 21, 2020 9:01:33 GMT -5
I became very close with a person online I guess would be called an emotional affair that helped us both through an incredibly difficult time that lasted for about six months. I found that emotional intimacy makes up for a lot of physical intimacy. We talked about physically getting together but for a few reasons it wasn't the best for both of us mostly her and I couldn't be that selfish, I wanted her to be happier than be with me . I also found that heart break never gets easier
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Mar 23, 2020 23:21:01 GMT -5
the great unknown is how you'll feel when you break it off with your wife. guilt, regret, remorse, (sometimes gold does not glitter). you must have loved your wife prior to her becoming your disinterested refuser. i am in similar circumstances but for much longer. not as many options. trying to focus on her lovable qualities and not her frigidity. tough job ! hanging in there. good luck ! I must respectfully take issue with this statement. You don't MARRY everyone you LOVE! For example, I loved a couple of girlfriends. BFF. But I didn't marry them because I, as a woman, am not sexually attracted to women. They're FRIENDS, a great and noble thing! Love, in a very real way. It's the same thing with the sexless marriage. There's no reason you have to stop loving someone if you divorce them. But there are many different facets to love, and very few people can have successful marriages with one another. Divorce need not equal hate, either-for grown ups. IMHO marriage is deep friendship combined with sexuality and a commitment! No sex? To me, it's a marriage in name only.
|
|