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Post by carl on Mar 13, 2020 21:14:35 GMT -5
I get your situation completely. Impossible heart breaking decision either way. I agree entirely that your wife is just taking the piss with this “you have to be into me nonsense.” I bought into that kind of thing for years. She’s maybe just not into sex at all and is trying to blow a smoke screen by saying that the way you are is to do with it. Personally I think it’s difficult to judge the situation with your AP as you are having good sex with her do you really know how well you get along. It’s hard not to be the best of friends when you find a sexual woman having been in a sexless marriage for 15 years. The mind plays tricks. But here’s a thought. If you hadn’t started an affair with your new woman do you think that you might be better able to judge whether to leave and if you stay with your wife would the heart break of loosing your new woman be less. If you don’t leave your wife your AP will maybe abandon you and then you’ll maybe loose her friendship too. Well hopefully not but if there had t been a sexual affair maybe you could hold onto your friendship. But life is for living I guess and memories are worth something.
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Post by carl on Mar 13, 2020 21:33:13 GMT -5
15 years of sexlessness ? Face reality: you will never have a great sex life with your wife. If sex is important to you (and if you’ve tolerated 15 years of sexlessness it probably isn’t that important),your wife may be a great friend, coparent or companion but she will never fit your idea of a great wife. But if you decide to leave, leave because the marriage isn’t what you want, not because you think you have a great partner waiting in the wings. Second, on that. The decision to leave has to stand on its own. There aren't any take-backs once you get that ball rolling, but, as a general rule, we, the refused, end up happier out than still in. Do you think the refused are happier out than in or those refused who would be happier out leave and those who would happier in stay. I think the situation rather than the individual dictates the outcome. Strange comparison but say you were in my situation perhaps you would stay like I do and if I had been in yours I would have left as you did.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 13, 2020 22:08:12 GMT -5
Carl: “ Do you think the refused are happier out than in or those refused who would be happier out leave and those who would happier in stay.”
Depends on the individual. A person who has sorted themselves out and created an interesting life independent of their spouse is likely to be happier out. A person who hasn’t taken the time to heal and resolve their own flaws and who is still living a life that revolves completely around their spouse is likely to be more miserable after leaving their marriage.
Leaving doesn’t magically confer happiness.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 14, 2020 0:53:29 GMT -5
If you analyze your spouses actions and conclude they love you even though they don't give a shit about your needs, you will be comfortable staying.
If you analyze your spouses actions and conclude that you are living with someone that sees you as a business partner, a source of income, a toy to manipulate, or sees you with total indifference, you will be comfortable leaving.
Your refusers needs are met. They won't change. The next move is up to you.
It's truly sad when two people love each other and meet each others needs and want to be together, then divorce, but that never happens.
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Post by lessingham on Mar 14, 2020 4:11:29 GMT -5
I always thought it is easier to run to someone than run away from a marriage. Even if it is only temporary you are still with someone. But many say the delight of an affair is it's illicitness, once that goes then the affair tends not to survive.
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Post by carl on Mar 14, 2020 7:15:49 GMT -5
Carl: “ Do you think the refused are happier out than in or those refused who would be happier out leave and those who would happier in stay.” Depends on the individual. A person who has sorted themselves out and created an interesting life independent of their spouse is likely to be happier out. A person who hasn’t taken the time to heal and resolve their own flaws and who is still living a life that revolves completely around their spouse is likely to be more miserable after leaving their marriage. Leaving doesn’t magically confer happiness. Does it depend on the individual ? Honestly I don’t know. It must do I guess to some extent. Not a good comparison but say for example if Somebody got assaulted or mugged and people’s reaction was that they should have defended themselves or escaped. Maybe ironhamster would have knocked them out or escaped where another person wouldn’t have been able to or in different circumstances anybody might become overwhelmed and fall. As dbflma has described he cannot leave his wife for a woman he loves and has great sex with. His wife hurts him by ignoring his natural sexual needs and pretending they don’t exist and producing a sexless world for them both to live in. She maybe quite aware than he cannot leave her. It’s been going on 15 years. Might one safely assume she doesn’t want him to leave and is very powerful at getting what she wants.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 14, 2020 10:58:57 GMT -5
“ Not a good comparison but say for example if Somebody got assaulted or mugged and people’s reaction was that they should have defended themselves or escaped.”
The assaulted person doesn’t have to believe the people who say things like that. S/he can choose to believe that s/he took the safest and wisest action. S/he can choose to spend her time with people who support her.
So many people here stay in SMs due to fear of how others might regard them. I saw my mom stay in a miserable and SM for that reason. I vowed I would never do that. I suppose there were people who thought what I did was terrible. I don’t care about their opinions about my life. I have no desire to be friends with anyone who thinks I’m an awful person because I divorced.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 14, 2020 11:02:28 GMT -5
Iron hamster said: “ If you analyze your spouses actions and conclude they love you even though they don't give a shit about your needs, you will be comfortable staying. ”
No. If you analyze your life and realize that regardless of whether your spouse loves you this is not the kind of marriage you want, you will leave. To do this you have to believe that your needs and desires are worth fulfilling.
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Post by Handy on Mar 14, 2020 11:24:45 GMT -5
The question of "does your spouse love you?" In my case my W cares for me emotionally in her own way which she thinks is a main thing that should count, but it is not in a way that fills my needs-desires.
It is like the miss matched love languages problem. I can do several "acts of service" for my W but what she really wants are "gifts" or something else that I see as trivial or to me has little value.
She was into sex a little more than me but age and natural processes killed her previous desires into something that became a liability, while I still like what we used to have and do.
I think this happens in several marriages.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 14, 2020 14:07:32 GMT -5
dbflma I've been through this and so has my bf as we were former AP . Yes either way someone will get hurt and it will lbs hard for you. There is no way around this. I will say even it was hard for both of us to face our now ex's neither of us regret it. But how things shake out with kids and family and ex's is a crap shoot. We thought we could stay friends with the ex's and in laws. His ex doesn't talk to him at all. Nor do his in laws. I lost some of my in laws I still talk to my ex but not much. It's more cordial than friendship. My grown kids are fine with it and are getting to know my bf better. His son is ok still talks to him. Met me but doesnt seem interested in making any kind of friendship. His daughter was ok until she found out he " started dating" now she barely speaks to him. Not sure if that helps you at all. But I will say all though we wish things were better with his kids we are so happy . But their is no easy way to end a long relationship. Or your new fulfilling relationship. Your kids are grown you aren't getting any younger do what you think will bring you the most happiness.
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Post by baza on Mar 15, 2020 1:48:17 GMT -5
Ir reads like the OP doesn't want to make a choice.
The harsh facts are that you don't get a pass on choice.
Whatever choice you make (or don't make) will have consequences - and you will own those consequences.
So it is perhaps, time to take a longer term view of things.
If you base your choice on what is in your longer term best interests (irrespective of the short term up/down sides) then you can't go too far wrong.
Staying is a legitimate choice, so is leaving. But here's a question for you - Does the case to leave stand up all by itself (irrespective of there being a girlfriend in the picture) ? That is to say, is being single preferable to being in an ILIASM marriage ?
If the answer to that is "no" then I'd seriously question the wisdom in leaving.
And, there is the ever present danger of your missus finding out about the girlfriend and making the call that you won't. The choice could be taken out of your hands.
It would seem wise to consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you.
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dbflma
Junior Member
Posts: 35
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Post by dbflma on Mar 15, 2020 10:17:17 GMT -5
I greatly appreciate everyone's comments. I really do. Ultimately I know that I'm the only one that can really make this decision. Sometimes I feel strong enough to tell my wife that we are better off separating/divorcing. Then I get the feeling that I'm making a mistake. I guess the biggest issue that I have is that I now know what true intimacy (not sex) feels like within a relationship. And how do I stay in a marriage where that just hasn't happened for over a decade. We are both good people and do care for one another. If I could somehow generate this desire for her and in turn she generate this desire for me, I feel we'd have a chance. But history has shown that neither one of us appears to be able to do that with one another despite our mutual love for each other. I'd give anything to feel that I want to be intimate with her. We had very little passion together throughout our relationship and as the wedding day came near I brushed aside my feelings thinking that 1.) we could work at it, and 2.) it's not as important as all the other qualities in our relationship. Now that I'm older I realize how important it is and because we've had so much history together and have shared a life together, it just makes it that much more difficult.
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 15, 2020 11:22:33 GMT -5
The bulk of comments are for you to get the legal and financial advice you need, and to put in place as much as possible, a support system of friends and relatives before you firmly grasp the courage and determination needed to make your decision regarding this dilemma. It won't be easy, but as baz says you don't get a pass on this. If you continue to procrastinate and put off doing the work and making the preperations needed to make an informed and well thought out decision the potential remains for events or conditions to make the choice for you. If there was never any real passion between you and your W it is unlikely to suddenly arrive in your latter years. What is far more likely is for a continuation of more of the same. There is no reason you and your W cannot remain friends, having shared so much history. She has opened the door for a separation and divorce in prior conversations. Many members have posted here that the hardest part of separating/divorce is just vocalizing it to the other spouse. Often it seems that one or both people are simply waiting on the other person to make the 1st move. Get you ducks in a row. Get the legal advice you need. Make sure you treat her a you would wish to be treated when it comes to division of the assets. You might find that your fears are worse that your reality. Good luck.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 16, 2020 10:15:50 GMT -5
You have been married 25 years, and stayed married while celibate for nearly 16 of those. How old would you both be to determine that you are onboard with the marriage to her?
I've played your affair partner's role for a good year, with someone who was in a celibate marriage. I agree with some others here that you need to approach your relationship with your "wife" as a separate thing from the affair partner - for specific reasons.
1. Your wife. You have been celibate for 16 years. She obviously isn't into you sexually and never has been. This is either because of her own issues with sex in general, or because (as she may have projected above) she's never actually come onboard with the marriage to you, and thus sees it as a trap. This seems much aligned with Mrs Apocrypha's problem with sex in the context of marriage. I don't think she wanted to get married, and never came to Jesus with it. As such, not choosing it - it became a trap, and you the jailor.
Take the affair partner out of the picture for a moment and assess the marriage on its merits. Is marriage a sexual union? Would either of you have pledged celibacy as a condition of being together? If not, then this vision of your relationship really hasn't been consistent with marriage at all. It's managing a household, and no different from that of an amicable ex-spouse. If the two of you think you can sit down and have an honest look at your 16 years of celibacy and your 25 years of little interest in sex, and discuss the true nature of your goals with each other, then maybe you can come to a place where you forgive and don't blame each other - and work out what an amicable split looks like.
2. The affair partner. A reason I try to treat these separately from the marriage is that when the dynamics change, where you become single - affair partners can have a habit of evaporating. Consider why a person might have a long distance relationship or an affair with a person who is in a relationship? They are seeking out someone who is - BY DESIGN - unavailable. That's a red flag if you are looking for an "all in" relationship.
What do you think will happen when you suddenly clear your deck and become available?
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Post by baza on Mar 16, 2020 17:18:02 GMT -5
Additional to Brother Apocrypha 's post. In a situation with you, spouse and a 3rd party, the following outcomes are possible - - you continue on, waiting for 'something' or 'someone' to make the choice for you. - you end up staying with your missus. - you end up with your 3rd party. - you end up with "none of the above", single. Most likely, unless you get pro-active, and start making fully informed choices, you'll end up with "none of the above", single. You need to be OK with that - ie - being single. Your story reads like your missus is not committed to a full on partnership with you, and to be perfectly honest, it doesn't read like the 3rd party is committed to a full on partnership with you either.
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