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Post by nyctos on Mar 7, 2020 10:28:32 GMT -5
*'My wife doesn't love me * She never loved me * She never desired me * When she said a marriage should halve the stress of difficult times and double the happiness of good times, she didn't realize that for me she makes it the exact opposite--the stress of difficulties is doubled and the happiness of good things is eliminated * No one has ever desired me * Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life * My ability to live anyone might be permanently damaged * If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism * Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness
I can only post this because I'm not in the depths of depression right now.
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Post by Handy on Mar 7, 2020 19:37:19 GMT -5
* Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life.
I ain't buying that line.
Good traits are good traits and should eventually help improve your life.
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Post by baza on Mar 7, 2020 20:41:01 GMT -5
*'My wife doesn't love me * She never loved me * She never desired me * When she said a marriage should halve the stress of difficult times and double the happiness of good times, she didn't realize that for me she makes it the exact opposite--the stress of difficulties is doubled and the happiness of good things is eliminated * No one has ever desired me * Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life * My ability to live anyone might be permanently damaged * If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism * Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness I can only post this because I'm not in the depths of depression right now. I am inclined to recommend you look up Sister @elle Brother nyctos . And read her run of stories starting at her first, and working your way forward to her last. You will note in that run of stories subtle changes in her view of her ILIASM deal, and her process of sorting her own shit out (which is the starting point) Hopefully you might draw some practical use out of elle's stories - maybe even some inspiration.
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Post by baza on Mar 7, 2020 20:52:30 GMT -5
* Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life.I ain't buying that line. Good traits are good traits and should eventually help improve your life. Good traits in one set of circumstances can be a good thing, but be a bad thing in a different circumstance. An example - You are pretty easy going, not much bothers you and you compromise to get along. With someone else (of a similar view) then that's a "good" characteristic. But, say the circumstances are an ILIASM deal, then you take the role of door-mat, and that is NOT a good characteristic.
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Post by Handy on Mar 7, 2020 23:00:07 GMT -5
Baza, being a door-mat to me isn't a good trait. Being easy going has its positive and negative benefits depending on the circumstances, I agree.
My idea of a good trait is it benefits most people in most situations.
I am assuming Nyctos's good traits did benefit him at some or many times. I am mostly trying to get Nyctos to see something in his past that benefited him in some way. I am certain if I knew him I could find a good trait that worked in his favor.
Do we get everything right? Not usually but we get more things right or at least good enough to survive and pay our respective taxes to the powers in charge of out respective governments.
I try to practice finding 5 to 10 good things in my life everyday.
Yesterday I had a treatment that made me sort of sick. The plus (good thing) is I have a pill to fix that, so that is a benefit in a sort of way. Fifty years ago the feeling better pill was not invented.
Number 2 is the wind quit blowing 60 MPH and it is 20 degrees warmer today than last week.
So, I try to think of 5 to 10 things that made my life better than someone else had it recently or 500 years ago.
After my surgery in Sept, the doctor asked how I was doing. I just watched the news from Syira where people were being shot at. I replied to the doctor no bombs were falling and no one was shooting at me in the hospital room AND the room wasn't on fire. So far so good in my opinion. I woke up after surgery feeling better than several hours before.
Yes an emergency appendectomy sucks but I was being well taken care of and in better condition than when I arrived at the hospital.
Dwelling only on the bad sucks so I try to see some good in life without thinking about what my W does or doesn't do.
I know feeling down gets some people to feel like things go against them more times than they like but to become an adult past a certain age, several things had to go right.
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Post by isthisit on Mar 8, 2020 2:23:38 GMT -5
* Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. I’m a going to stick my two pen’neth in on this one. There is no amount of money that will satisfy a woman with this mindset. It is simply a mechanism to keep you on the back foot, positioned as inadequate and therefore undeserving of her. None of this is true of course. If your W wants some ‘stuff’ that money can buy and is oh so important, she can get off her lazy arse and go and do something about it for herself. My guess would be the stuff quickly lessens in importance.
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Post by lessingham on Mar 8, 2020 3:44:32 GMT -5
Nyctos, I am reading The Snow Queen to the kids at school. The story revolves around people getting shards of a magic mirror in their eyes. It makes everything they see distorted and evil. It is a beautiful metaphor for depression. In the depths of the disease, anything and everything is distorted and twisted. It is impossible for anyone outside to refute the mindset. But look for gaps in the walls to feel the light. Hang on to the one good thing in there and wait for the walks to fall.
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Post by h on Mar 8, 2020 7:19:56 GMT -5
*'My wife doesn't love me * She never loved me * She never desired me * When she said a marriage should halve the stress of difficult times and double the happiness of good times, she didn't realize that for me she makes it the exact opposite--the stress of difficulties is doubled and the happiness of good things is eliminated * No one has ever desired me * Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life * My ability to live anyone might be permanently damaged * If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism * Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness I can only post this because I'm not in the depths of depression right now. On particularly bad days, I tell myself almost all of these exact things. Most of it fades away by the next day. The only ones that stick are "My wife never desired me." and "My ability to love will be permanently damaged." For the first one, I really don't believe she ever felt any kind of passion or desire for me. I don't think she's capable of those types of feelings. I think we got married too young, she didn't know what I expected from a married sex life. Likewise, I just assumed that the whole point of waiting for marriage was to build up anticipation so that there was lots of sex in the marriage. We were both wrong. The second one is something I concluded after my time here. The truth is, no matter how much therapy and growth and healing we all go through, there are scars from this that will always be there. The best I can hope for if I get out, is to be happy alone forever, or hope to find someone understanding enough to accept the scars and help me work through those too.
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Post by nyctos on Mar 8, 2020 12:02:12 GMT -5
Baza, being a door-mat to me isn't a good trait. Being easy going has its positive and negative benefits depending on the circumstances, I agree. My idea of a good trait is it benefits most people in most situations. I am assuming Nyctos's good traits did benefit him at some or many times. I am mostly trying to get Nyctos to see something in his past that benefited him in some way. I am certain if I knew him I could find a good trait that worked in his favor. Do we get everything right? Not usually but we get more things right or at least good enough to survive and pay our respective taxes to the powers in charge of out respective governments. I try to practice finding 5 to 10 good things in my life everyday. Yesterday I had a treatment that made me sort of sick. The plus (good thing) is I have a pill to fix that, so that is a benefit in a sort of way. Fifty years ago the feeling better pill was not invented. Number 2 is the wind quit blowing 60 MPH and it is 20 degrees warmer today than last week. So, I try to think of 5 to 10 things that made my life better than someone else had it recently or 500 years ago. After my surgery in Sept, the doctor asked how I was doing. I just watched the news from Syira where people were being shot at. I replied to the doctor no bombs were falling and no one was shooting at me in the hospital room AND the room wasn't on fire. So far so good in my opinion. I woke up after surgery feeling better than several hours before. Yes an emergency appendectomy sucks but I was being well taken care of and in better condition than when I arrived at the hospital. Dwelling only on the bad sucks so I try to see some good in life without thinking about what my W does or doesn't do. I know feeling down gets some people to feel like things go against them more times than they like but to become an adult past a certain age, several things had to go right. Thanks handy, and everyone else. A lot of why I write these things here is to try to get them out of my system -- externalizing them and letting other people attack these statements. One of my "good" traits is that I'm pretty intelligent. Intelligence does little positive against depression, though, because the brains own intelligence and creativity can get turned against itself (so right now, blind self-confidence seems a lot better a trait to me.). So, having the intelligence of others can help. I think.
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Post by Handy on Mar 8, 2020 12:43:27 GMT -5
Nyctos, I get it that you can feel down at times. I am not arguing about what you feel. I am just saying you probably have more going for you than you feel at times. This feeling abandoned and rejected seems to hit some people very hard.
I like to put the blame for feeling down on the real things, like incompatibility, rather than blaming myself or my W. Looking for solutions is more helpful than trying to place blame. Many of the solutions also have some down side in many cases, so solutions can be a two-edge sword.
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Post by isthisit on Mar 9, 2020 1:55:33 GMT -5
*'My wife doesn't love me * She never loved me * She never desired me * When she said a marriage should halve the stress of difficult times and double the happiness of good times, she didn't realize that for me she makes it the exact opposite--the stress of difficulties is doubled and the happiness of good things is eliminated * No one has ever desired me * Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life * My ability to live anyone might be permanently damaged * If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism * Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness I can only post this because I'm not in the depths of depression right now. On particularly bad days, I tell myself almost all of these exact things. Most of it fades away by the next day. The only ones that stick are "My wife never desired me." and "My ability to love will be permanently damaged." For the first one, I really don't believe she ever felt any kind of passion or desire for me. I don't think she's capable of those types of feelings. I think we got married too young, she didn't know what I expected from a married sex life. Likewise, I just assumed that the whole point of waiting for marriage was to build up anticipation so that there was lots of sex in the marriage. We were both wrong. The second one is something I concluded after my time here. The truth is, no matter how much therapy and growth and healing we all go through, there are scars from this that will always be there. The best I can hope for if I get out, is to be happy alone forever, or hope to find someone understanding enough to accept the scars and help me work through those too. h I cannot comment on your first concern as it doesn’t relate to my circumstances. I made the same assumption about your second point. After all, once bitten twice shy, huh? However it seems for me that much to my surprise this is not the case at all. I recently fell for someone, really hard. You know, in that delightful tumbling of emotions you cannot control, can’t stop smiling, the world is suddenly a joyous place kind of way. So, in my case my fears were groundless. I am not irreparably damaged as I had assumed. The element I had overlooked was that when you find a person just right for you, your emotions take over and the over thinking is taken out of the equation. Please have hope, you are still you and remain capable of loving and being loved. It just does not feel like it today because an SM is a monumental mind fuck of the highest order. Your future need not look like your past. Hang tight.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 16, 2020 10:30:25 GMT -5
* If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness I recall these two thoughts anchoring me. I can now say that I can appreciate the difference between solitude and loneliness. It's profoundly lonely to be in a circumstance in which my expectation is an intimate connection with my partner, and I'm continually in a state of being rejected - not good enough. It got better when I started with baby steps within the marriage, removing my expectations. I removed my wedding ring. I set up a spare room and got much better sleep in it. I developed my own interests and groups and attended activities and get togethers with them. The more I did this, the more honest it felt to myself. It felt better to reduce the active harm I was subjecting myself to. And when we split, it felt like a battlefield amputation of the soul. I don't love being alone, but I do find it preferable to the active harm I feel from being in a relationship in which I am unwanted as a romantic partner. And there's room for love when I am able to find it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2020 17:02:50 GMT -5
That is a pretty crushing internal dialogue and many of us have had all or some of them. As others have written, do not look outside yourself for happiness. I went through a personal accounting for myself and put some of my negative dialogue into categories. Some categories I had control over, some I didn't. Once I did that, I tackled the ones I could and let go of the others. I know it's easier said than done but the letting go was critical for me. So, here's my take:
*'My wife doesn't love me (you have no control over her feelings) * She never loved me (you have no control over that and no way to know one way or the other) * She never desired me (you know that she never desired sex, it doesn't mean you are undesirable) * When she said a marriage should halve the stress of difficult times and double the happiness of good times, she didn't realize that for me she makes it the exact opposite--the stress of difficulties is doubled and the happiness of good things is eliminated (Stresses are not halved by anyone. Life ebbs and flows) * No one has ever desired me (no control over this one and likely not true) * Any good traits I have do nothing to improve my life (that's depression talking) * My ability to live anyone might be permanently damaged (Work on improving yourself now, be the you that you want to be. Let everything else flow from that) * If I ever get out, I will experience only blame and criticism (Blame and criticism may flow your way, you can choose to ignore it. How you take it is completely within your control) * Even if I ever make enough money to make my wife happy, it still won't bring me any happiness. (Do you like your career, does it give meaning to your life, are you good at it? These things you can control. Making $$ for someone else isn't a goal) * I will never have happiness in my life, only pain and fear and loneliness (you have some control over this)
I don't mean to minimize depression, I have been in some pretty dark places too. What I found was that once I stopped focusing on my internal dialogue, on my wife's feelings, that it made me a better me. A better me has been a happier me. My particulars, yours may be very different but many have had a similar path. I stopped drinking, started exercising and otherwise taking care of myself. Take care of yourself.
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Post by lessingham on Mar 17, 2020 5:09:34 GMT -5
Hemmingway gave great advice about writing that could be useful for love. He said write. Write rubbish, write every day. Write what the hell comes into your head. So when the day comes when you are ready to Write the great novel, you are ready. So prepare for love, work on yor unique beauty and joy. Love yourself. On the day you love walks you will be ready.
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Post by michael on Mar 17, 2020 6:53:41 GMT -5
“I found out a long time ago, What a woman can do to your soul. Ah, but she can’t take you anyway, If you don’t already know how to go; I’ve got a peaceful, easy feeling, And I know you won’t let me down, ‘Cause I’m already standing on the ground.” -the Eagles If I had to listen to one band for the rest of my life, it would be the Eagles.
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