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Post by isthisit on Nov 22, 2019 1:32:17 GMT -5
Got nothing for sale on my website, and I don't plan to. In fact, I am in the process of converting my blog articles into free downloadable .pdfs, by subject matter. Not selling nothing, not planning to. Cynicism is your issue to deal with.... I wasn't accusing you; I was accusing whoever the reader is. Understanding is apparently your issue to deal with. Yup
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Post by lessingham on Nov 22, 2019 4:29:49 GMT -5
I am a bookworm and have read many books on sexless marriage cures. Most boil down to it being the guy's fault and he should do more around the house, be more romantic and be more supportive. Maybe I am only reading the cures for guys but very few buttkick the women for doing little more than turning up and expecting the guy to be grateful. Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 22, 2019 5:08:22 GMT -5
I am a bookworm and have read many books on sexless marriage cures. Most boil down to it being the guy's fault and he should do more around the house, be more romantic and be more supportive. Maybe I am only reading the cures for guys but very few buttkick the women for doing little more than turning up and expecting the guy to be grateful. Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great. To be fair, the book for 'Sex starved wives' is basically all about doing more around the house, reducing any kind of pressure on your refusing husband, etc. etc. I tried it and all it did was increase my workload and his expectations, I certainly didn't get any more sex or gratitude or appreciation. And we were already working from a really low base. Bleh. I now have a guy who does loads around the house AND fucks me on the regular. Yay!
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 22, 2019 8:42:28 GMT -5
I am a bookworm and have read many books on sexless marriage cures. Most boil down to it being the guy's fault and he should do more around the house, be more romantic and be more supportive. Maybe I am only reading the cures for guys but very few buttkick the women for doing little more than turning up and expecting the guy to be grateful. Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great. It would seem lessingham, that the libraries, bookstores and periodicals across the pond are populated with the same drivel as here in the US when it comes to advice for fixing or curing a SM. I read just about everything I could 5 or so yrs. ago and implemented many of the recommended strategies and guess what? None of it worked. Save yourself a bunch of time and eyestrain. Start reading articles on subjects that hold an interest for you or that can be of use going forward should your marriage go the way of the dodo. And just to be fair to our ladies here elkclan2 brings to the conversation that perhaps books aimed at females trapped in a SM aren't likely to be of much use either.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 22, 2019 9:19:00 GMT -5
Lessingham said: “ Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great.”
The answer isn’t in books. The answer is finding a compatible partner and that typically means developing a full, interesting life without your refuser.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 206
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Post by catsloveme on Nov 22, 2019 9:28:01 GMT -5
I am a bookworm and have read many books on sexless marriage cures. Most boil down to it being the guy's fault and he should do more around the house, be more romantic and be more supportive. Maybe I am only reading the cures for guys but very few buttkick the women for doing little more than turning up and expecting the guy to be grateful. Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great. Resurrecting Sex is balanced gender-wise and discusses the full range of causes without the useless drivel. After 15 years (and many ignored requests/recommendations) my husband finally read The Five Love Languages. Maybe I should move RS to a prominent stack of books...
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 22, 2019 9:46:37 GMT -5
Resurrecting Sex is balanced gender-wise and discusses the full range of causes without the useless drivel. After 15 years (and many ignored requests/recommendations) my husband finally read The Five Love Languages. Maybe I should move RS to a prominent stack of books... I guess my question re: Resurrecting Sex would be, having discussed the full range of causes, (How did the book deal with the male refuser who stated moving to Montana would cure the SM), how did the book set about actually offering cures for the sexless aspect of relationships?
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 206
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Post by catsloveme on Nov 22, 2019 9:52:32 GMT -5
Resurrecting Sex is balanced gender-wise and discusses the full range of causes without the useless drivel. After 15 years (and many ignored requests/recommendations) my husband finally read The Five Love Languages. Maybe I should move RS to a prominent stack of books... I guess my question re: Resurrecting Sex would be, having discussed the full range of causes, (How did the book deal with the male refuser who stated moving to Montana would cure the SM), how did the book set about actually offering cures for the sexless aspect of relationships? That unusual circumstance was not covered. Or maybe it was and I missed it. Maybe you should read the book and see if it did. Lol Edited to add: Moving to Montana as a cure, in my mind, is grasping at straws looking for excuses. Probably falls under psychological issues.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 22, 2019 10:52:59 GMT -5
I would be happy to move to Montana! I an the perfect immigrant, english speaking, self financing and a great asset to any state. Alas though, my inability to resist American women would have me on the next flight home.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 22, 2019 10:57:08 GMT -5
You also mentioned shynjdude as a model for having fixed his marriage. Unfortunately it looks as if he deleted all of his postings. However my recollection of his 'success' does not equate to fixed. I remember his wife wanting to have more intimacy and sex in exchange for him cutting the other woman out of his life, giving his wife all of his passwords, deleting his social media accounts, and other control issues. To me his success involves his total subjection to her and her demands. He has sacrificed his humanity on the altar 'matrimony' and she has begrudgingly agreed to supply some pussy for now. If an affair is referenced by "other woman" in that post (and forgive me please, if I'm wrong on that - I'm not able to search for shynjude's posts), I disagree on this characterization. My personal experience on discovering I was on the shittier end of an affair aligns with the popular psychological assessment of it: t he discovery of affair is the nuclear bomb of betrayal and humiliation. I'm nearly 50 years old and I have never experienced its equal. It drove me temporarily insane, I think - fried my noggin' so badly I was (thankfully) able to acknowledge that I was not thinking clearly. It permanently changed my view of what's possible in a relationship - and not just with that person. If a reconciliation is desired by both parties after an affair, there is a problem with trust and credibility. One of the partners has been proven to be untruthful. Though a relationship requires trust and grace, the cuckold/cuckquean has had that ripped out stem and root. There's no basis left after an affair to establish it - and that's a problem. One way to deal with it is for the cheater to acknowledge it and to do whatever it takes to PROVE to the other's satisfaction, that they aren't hiding anything. Obviously, the cheated-on partner has no basis left on which to take their word for it. Absolutely - removing any and all contact with the third party - is table stakes for reconciliation, and passwords, privacy should be volunteered enthusiatically or GTFO, until such time that trust is earned again, and the couple can claw their way back up to the starting line again, to THEN BEGIN working on whatever problems led to the affair in the first place.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 22, 2019 11:16:34 GMT -5
After 15 years (and many ignored requests/recommendations) my husband finally read The Five Love Languages. Maybe I should move RS to a prominent stack of books... I have Love Languages in the stack I read. I keep it in mind when I think of optimizing my amazing relationship right now with a wonderful woman who is way into me, so that I appear to her as the Cassanova I want her to see me as. When I was married, I totally read Love Languages, and many others, and my celibate (but only with me) and eventually philandering wife, seemed WAY less interested in doing heavy lifting to make it so she would have or want more sex with me. Eventually I came to realize it was because she did not see me as a sexual partner for {reasons}. The reasons matter individually - but they will be different for everyone else. The important thing is that she did not see me as a sexual partner, because that determines the success of whatever method anyone uses for restoring sexual intimacy. Nothing in 5 Love Languages will ever work if you partner doesn't actually see you as a viable, desirable sexual partner, for whatever reason or circumstance they have. It, and so many others, assume the premise that the partner DOES want sex - with you - and that they somehow forgot how, or what you like, or what they like. In long term dysfunctional deals where people's resentments have fossilized into a celibate marriage that preserves the household and lifestyle, much of this advice ends up as re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You can get to know what your partner likes and you can adapt your allotment of household work to reflect your new realities, and you can even do the necessary self-work to wholesale change your life and the person you show up as (for example, learning to be adventurous and do things instead of being a homebody/curmudgeon, or recovering from addictions), but it doesn't necessarily wash away the person your partner has come to know you as, and doesn't change their negative impression of what a marriage to you is or has been across the past X years. Most of those books focus on the implementation of attraction, rather than the inception of it, which is why they tend to fail. They aren't necessarily wrong in their depiction of how to better demonstrate attraction and love in a relationship in a way that the other partner values, but if the actual problem is that the celibate partner is avoiding such demonstrations because they don't see their partner as a viable sexual candidate or their marriage as a desirable format in which to express their desire, then none of that matters.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 22, 2019 12:47:32 GMT -5
I would be happy to move to Montana! I an the perfect immigrant, english speaking, self financing and a great asset to any state. Alas though, my inability to resist American women would have me on the next flight home. And why my island living friend would you think that an inability to resist American females would result in your immediate deportation? The majority of available American women would likely appreciate your mindset and any # of them might well be receptive to the prospect of some intimacy.
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Post by isthisit on Nov 22, 2019 15:36:47 GMT -5
Just my opinion. I think different people have different abilities when it comes to sex. I just think that some people get aroused easily and can get enormous pleasure from sex in many ways. They may or may not be in touch with their emotions and other peoples too. That’s at one end of the scale sexually. Then there are those who need a bit of help and encouragement and in the right circumstances can get a lot out of sex. But they require some effort which reduces ones own pleasure somewhat. Then there are those who have little ability or desire and struggle to enjoy sex and probably confounded by their own self consciousness become completely non-sexual. Intimacy may not run a parallel but if it leads to sex then would be avoided too. I don’t think there is anyway of changing that core level of desire. I think it’s how someone is. I believe that someone who enjoys sex could enjoy sex with many different people and could overcome many barriers and someone who can’t would struggle ultimately whatever the circumstances. You are what you are. Having said that I don’t think an intrinsic lack of desire or ability is such a massive problem. I don’t think it needs fixing or needs to be overcome. It’s nobody’s fault. But it needs honesty and it needs discussing if you are in a marriage because it matters. It can make quite a significant difference to a man at least I can say. It’s not the end of the world, but denying the situation is denying the truth and living a lie. I agree with your view carl in particular the concept of a spectrum of intrinsic interest in sexual activity which is inherent and fault free. However, in my experience, which seems somewhat unusual here, partners can change. I had a fantastic sex life with H for 5-6 years after we met. Marvellous, spellbinding, eye watering-ly wonderful. Frankly I would not have married him had there been a problem with intimacy, sex or libido and I certainly would not have had a family with him (arguably a much bigger commitment than M) had there been any concerns. Despite this, he changed pretty much overnight. I believed in your concept of ‘folks are made one way or another’ so hung in hoping for a return to his ‘natural’ tendencies- for 15 years. Once I accepted that as a refuser he was not going to change I planned my exit. So, perhaps both perspectives have merit. Folks are materially made up with a larger or a lesser authentic libido, but despite this once whatever there was is ‘lost’ it is lost for good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 10:10:43 GMT -5
Since I see my former handle in this thread, I might as well give a brief update before disappearing again... For those who don't remember me, this thread (not deleted!) described my marriage adventures last year from my determination to leave to things getting better to a final crisis that prompted me to leave ILIASM: iliasm.org/thread/4622/screwed-talkThings are still going well in the marriage. The main reason is not so much the faith angle as the honesty we have had; we were so stuck in the resentment and passive aggressive responses to each other that there was no way to fix things without a true reset. If either of us is bothered by something the other one does, we are straight about it and we discuss it maturely. (Usually. Sometimes we fall back into old habits, of what we call Marriage 1.0, but that is usually brief, never more than a day. If things get too hard for us to solve ourselves we are both willing to go to counseling, but so far that has not been necessary; in fact I stopped going to my own therapy last January because I no longer felt it was needed.) Life has thrown a few curveballs. Both of W's parents passed within a few months of each other. Unlike the past, I've been there for her (literally at both of their deathbeds) and we've spent far more time halfway across the country at her parents' house as she goes through the hard work of taking care of their affairs and setting the house up for rent or sale. (Advice: A will isn't enough. Talk to a lawyer about how to make things easier for the kids when you pass. Make sure beneficiary information is explicit in all your financial and insurance and investment accounts.) W. very much appreciates my being there for her, pitching in as much as I can, and not hiding from her as I used to. I've been telecommuting to work and no one at work really cares that I have barely been in the office for five months. We kiss often. We cuddle. We spend time going out and having fun. I am not going into details on sex, because she was very hurt to know that I publicized it on ILIASM, but things are much better. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be the unicorn here that managed - with my partner - to turn things around. I will delete this account as well, so apologies if I don't answer any questions here, but I wish all of you well in your journeys.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 24, 2019 11:41:15 GMT -5
Since I see my former handle in this thread, I might as well give a brief update before disappearing again... For those who don't remember me, this thread (not deleted!) described my marriage adventures last year from my determination to leave to things getting better to a final crisis that prompted me to leave ILIASM: iliasm.org/thread/4622/screwed-talkThings are still going well in the marriage. The main reason is not so much the faith angle as the honesty we have had; we were so stuck in the resentment and passive aggressive responses to each other that there was no way to fix things without a true reset. If either of us is bothered by something the other one does, we are straight about it and we discuss it maturely. (Usually. Sometimes we fall back into old habits, of what we call Marriage 1.0, but that is usually brief, never more than a day. If things get too hard for us to solve ourselves we are both willing to go to counseling, but so far that has not been necessary; in fact I stopped going to my own therapy last January because I no longer felt it was needed.) Life has thrown a few curveballs. Both of W's parents passed within a few months of each other. Unlike the past, I've been there for her (literally at both of their deathbeds) and we've spent far more time halfway across the country at her parents' house as she goes through the hard work of taking care of their affairs and setting the house up for rent or sale. (Advice: A will isn't enough. Talk to a lawyer about how to make things easier for the kids when you pass. Make sure beneficiary information is explicit in all your financial and insurance and investment accounts.) W. very much appreciates my being there for her, pitching in as much as I can, and not hiding from her as I used to. I've been telecommuting to work and no one at work really cares that I have barely been in the office for five months. We kiss often. We cuddle. We spend time going out and having fun. I am not going into details on sex, because she was very hurt to know that I publicized it on ILIASM, but things are much better. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be the unicorn here that managed - with my partner - to turn things around. I will delete this account as well, so apologies if I don't answer any questions here, but I wish all of you well in your journeys. Interesting. I also did a significant 'reset' in my marriage and used the same language - Relationship 2.0. I came to view it as a second relationship but with the same person - as two distinctly different marriages. Mine did not work out with the marriage intact. I also turned around my own intimacy aversion to a person with whom I had a relationship prior to marriage. I've been trying to write about what was successful - the process - to help others. It's a hard one to package though.
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