|
Post by baza on Oct 18, 2019 4:05:30 GMT -5
You make a key point Brother lessingham . If you are in an ILIASM shithole, you can re-locate it somewhere else if you like, but it'll still be an ILIASM shithole.
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on Oct 18, 2019 6:19:34 GMT -5
I am actually on holiday at the moment, and found myself yesterday imagining that absolutely everyone is bang at it the second their room door is closed. On this occasion I am here with my mum so that thought doesn’t sting. It certainly did sting on the many other occasions I felt it when travelling with H. The children provided wonderful cover for him in this respect. Remind me again why I wasted so much time?
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Oct 18, 2019 7:45:38 GMT -5
In my younger days when single, vacations were an opportunity to hook up with girls on vacation for some one or two night stands. It was great when it happened. When I vacationed out of the country I made use of local pros, generally reasonably priced and also great. Married before kids the 1st W and I had frequent vacation sex where ever we went. After kids I don't think I had sex on any vacation. We were both too tired from playing with the kids, and lugging all the stuff around. But I knew that once home I would be back to plowing that furrow in no time. So I don't think with the kids along the expectation for "lots of sex" is really realistic, one man's opinion. But maybe someone else has had a different experience.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Oct 18, 2019 8:34:19 GMT -5
Vacation sex is the worst. Every time I tell her how important it is for me and every time she promises. Then the litany, too tired, long day, ate too much, a busy day ahead, bed too hard or soft, the people in the next room can hear, the cleaning staff are around, too hot and ya da ya de yah. I could cope if she did not garnish it with lies Could you? It's likely the unvarnished truth would begin consequences that you both are trying to avoid. Yes, it's important for you to have sex. You are in a married relationship and marriage includes physical intimacy and a unique attraction. In your partner's case, she's married to someone who she doesn't see that way at all. It's likely a difficult situation for her, just as it's difficult for you to be married and attracted to someone who doesn't want you. The sooner you both come to those realizations, the more it shines a spotlight on an unsolvable problem. It's important for her not to have sex with you, just as it is important for you to have sex with her. If she admits the truth to herself, or to you, then you'll have to decide what that means for your future. Right now, the lies - and you know they are lies - serve a mutual purpose. The longer you both dismiss this a "how to stack the dishwasher" scale argument - the longer she can delay with lies that you accept, the longer you both get to stay married.
|
|
|
Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 18, 2019 8:34:55 GMT -5
I must be the only guy in the world that went to Thailand and never got laid! LOL. Sorry, had to laugh at that one. But I feel your pain. I gave up on anything physical with my wife on vacations years ago. She had many of the same complaints. We take separate vacations now. Much more fun that way.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Oct 18, 2019 8:47:55 GMT -5
Somewhat 'related' to this thread, is the ZERO amount of sex/intimacy/affection, that I see in the world around me.
Starting with my neighbors. The husbands who are always alone, anytime we see them, or they are with a male friend, or relative. The same goes for the wives, leaving the house with their mother,or daughter. All of my neighbors are in their 40's and older. I see my backyard neighbors, eating separately, watching TV for hours into the night, separately, or on the computer. I watch one person mow the yard, clean their car,bring home the groceries, etc... It's so, so rare to see the two of them together doing anything!
My girlfriend/woman talks with some of the neighbors, and asks them some rather 'direct' questions. It doesn't take long to find out that they sleep in separate rooms. The same goes for her customers that she works for.
Living at the beach I see couples on the beach, visiting tourist sights,staying at hotels, eating out together, etc.. It's far more 'normal' to see zero touch, little communication, and to watch them walk and sit very far away from each other, (especially when the kids are in the middle, dividing them). More and more of them are glued to their phones.
My point is that I believe SM is much more common than we realize, especially during vacations. That it exists all around us, and remains a don't talk, don't tell subject.
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Oct 18, 2019 9:00:03 GMT -5
greatcoastals post made me think of this....
I am a big fan of body language. Sometimes when I see a couple they do something that catches my attention. And then I might observe them together to see what their body language says. Often it says let's hurry and get through this. If I ease drop on the conversation I might note the inflections in their voices do not infer affection, but rather expediency. And often there is a considerable gap between them, it seems to me like a separation preference. I don't speculate on what's happening at home, but if I am reading it right, the body language in public can speak volumes.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Oct 18, 2019 9:14:48 GMT -5
As for the bag, is it that you you think she is forgetting to have sex with you? Like it's an oversight or mistake? I think she chose not to bring the "bag", because she didn't want to have sex with me. I think if I tried to bring it up, that was going to be the starting point of a reason we couldn't have sex. Yes. I think you are starting to see it. When you change "didn't" to "doesn't" - an event to a state of mind - I think you will be more clear. And, yes, if you bring it up, it will start an unpleasant conversation that will somehow result in a justification for not having sex. And not bringing it up also results in no sex. That's because her priority is not to have sex with you because she doesn't see you as a sexual partner. It's not indifference - it's important enough to her to risk the marriage and household. So, then it comes down to what the two of you think a marriage is, and what you intend to do about how that differs from what you have, presently. If you both went to Vegas today and got a "remarriage" - would you both commit to the celibacy of your present actual lived reality?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:27:27 GMT -5
I can't speak to the dynamic of women who are denied but I struggled with the power dynamics of being the "needy" one. I didn't want to be the one who wanted/needed and any conversations (THE conversation) just comes across as more whining. More "whining" certainly doesn't make you more desirable as a sexual partner either. So, I moved out of the bedroom and it absolutely resulted in the change I needed for myself. My W has made a number of, "why don't you come back to the bedroom" overtures but she doesn't and won't have sex so I have to assume it's that she misses feeling in charge of that part of our relationship.
Anyway, it's a sidebar. Take back your life, stop focusing on sex with a refuser and then you can make some decisions.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Oct 18, 2019 10:50:13 GMT -5
More "whining" certainly doesn't make you more desirable as a sexual partner either. So, I moved out of the bedroom and it absolutely resulted in the change I needed for myself. My W has made a number of, "why don't you come back to the bedroom" overtures but she doesn't and won't have sex so I have to assume it's that she misses feeling in charge of that part of our relationship. Anyway, it's a sidebar. Take back your life, stop focusing on sex with a refuser and then you can make some decisions. Strongly agree. My ex also lobbied strongly to get me back to the bedroom and in some cases tried to slip in with me in my spare bedroom. It might be a control thing -but not necessarily control of me.I have come to think the safer bet would be that it's about the management of the shared lie. As long as you are sleeping in separate beds, it's difficult to maintain the facade of "everything's great except the sex." It puts focus on the one thing neither of you really wants to look at - and which has unpredictable results.
|
|
|
Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 18, 2019 10:51:28 GMT -5
The wife complained at first when I moved out of the bedroom. She claimed she missed the closeness (which she never wanted cuddling) but I think it was more she didnt want the kids to know we were havibg problems. She acts like things are just fine.
We each have our own bedrooms. Mine is moreof a man cave with a bed. We work different shifts and I rarely see her during the week so it works for the best to have a little peace in the home.
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Oct 18, 2019 21:09:33 GMT -5
worksforme2 I certainly can see the foreshadowing. It's been 96 days. Yes, I pathetically track. I put a little cryptic note on my calendar. "Change the Filter" I also have change the water filter and change the HVAC filter (Those two are real), but Changed the Filter is my code word for sexy time. I've done this the past several years, but I delete them on January 1 in the spirt of a new year. But It's not like I don't remember close enough. I think In another post I said this had been a better year, I think I may have misspoke and didn't do the math. It's been three times this year and unless we can get the job done a couple more times, this will be the worse year. I don't quibble with tracking things. But skip the euphemisms. Put down "had sex". Are you worried she will see it? Get mad? At what? The fact that she can't be bothered to engage in the activity that separates you from platonic roommates? Put down "had sex". Call a spade a spade.
|
|
|
Post by Handy on Oct 18, 2019 22:31:05 GMT -5
shamwow Put down "had sex". Call a spade a spade.I am going to agree with Shamwow. If your W doesn't like it, don't debate the issue.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Oct 20, 2019 19:52:05 GMT -5
I am actually on holiday at the moment, and found myself yesterday imagining that absolutely everyone is bang at it the second their room door is closed. That is the HOPE/PLAN of my next relationship. I know I'm ready for that.
|
|
mit
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by mit on Oct 21, 2019 0:29:32 GMT -5
My marriage officially went downhill when my W refused to go on a vacation...solely to avoid the expectation of vacation sex.
After that, despite all my efforts to connect during the years prior, I knew our marriage was dead. My heart for her changed that day and hasn't recovered. Four years later, she's upstairs sleeping and I'm downstairs writing this post. I lack the courage to leave (4 kids), but ache everyday wishing I had someone who desired to be with me.
|
|