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Post by solodriver on Oct 13, 2019 18:02:08 GMT -5
I think those that have trama in their past often fool themselves. They initiate sex because they feel bad for neglecting their spouse. But once they get into it, they remember why they avoided it to start with. I don't necessarily blame my wife for the way she feels during sex considering her past. But her refusal to get any help is unacceptable and that is why I will be leaving some day. Since I cut her off and said we will no longer have sex again, it has made things easier. The rejection hurts far more than not having sex. And I will never be rejected by her again. It may seem weird but there is a feeling of power in that. Some day I will be with a woman that wants my touch. This is EXACTLY where I am. Currently my wife and I are just roommates until the financial situation allows me to separate. It is easier to accept this reality than being rejected for even wanting a hug from her. I too look forward to the day when I will be with a woman who will want my touch, love and devotion.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 14, 2019 9:40:35 GMT -5
I think those that have trauma in their past often fool themselves. They initiate sex because they feel bad for neglecting their spouse. But once they get into it, they remember why they avoided it to start with. I don't necessarily blame my wife for the way she feels during sex considering her past. But her refusal to get any help is unacceptable and that is why I will be leaving some day. Since I cut her off and said we will no longer have sex again, it has made things easier. The rejection hurts far more than not having sex. And I will never be rejected by her again. It may seem weird but there is a feeling of power in that. Some day I will be with a woman that wants my touch. It's not weird at all, though I understand why it seems unfamiliar to you when you are in it. Early on, people are focused on the lack of sex but assume there is otherwise a "strong connection" or "a good marriage" (but without defining what a marriage actually is, in any particular detail) So, the lack of sex is interpreted as a miscommunication somehow, like an oversight of manners or a new bad habit. "When we don't have sex, it makes me feel like you don't love me, or don't like me, or that you think I'm disgusting." Yes. That is exactly the feeling. And, when someone feels like that about you, the sex they DO have with you will also make you feel that way. It's less disempowering to say NO to things that harm you. Having sex with someone who doesn't want you, isn't going to make you feel great and isn't going to make them feel very good either. The answers you are looking for are likely way upstream, and unaddressed. Some day you will be with a woman that wants you touch. For all those in your present situation though, the first task is to consider your present situation and how it harms you to exist in it. Is it a marriage?
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Post by bpvikesfan on Oct 14, 2019 12:54:58 GMT -5
I am what would be classified as a refuser...I came to this forum because the incredible struggle I have with not fulfilling my husbands needs, and honestly no matter what the psychological issues are I too have sexual and intimate needs. Sexuality has been a struggle for me these last years, I logically want it and think about it as much as a man does i assume. The problem is i cannot get turned on, I have a logical realtionship with sex instead of an emotional relationship with intimacy. I am a survivor of sexual assaults and in the beginning of my marriage the trauma did have a huge impact on my sex life, but throughout the years that became less and less of an issue and i can say i think i have gotten to a point where i have accepted the rapes and they dont haunt me anymore....with that said i dont think my trauma is part of my sexual problems now. I trust my husband and feel safe with him. I see so many spouses here that are being refused...all i can say is my story, i love sex. i miss intimacey. but i have trouble. I have gotten advice to not focus on the orgasm, which i heed and agree with, but not being turned on makes all sex acts difficult, much anxiety comes when i cant get turned on even though the things my husband does feels good I cant seem to stop the swelling anxiety that comes when i am not feeling the tinge of turn on. Trust me i am sexually attracted to my husband, if i wanted sex it would be with him but i can seem to connect my thoughts to physical desire, does that make sense?
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Post by obobfla on Oct 14, 2019 15:15:48 GMT -5
Hi ScottDinTN, My wife had psychological problems as well, although they didn’t necessarily relate to sexual trauma. Her problem was schizo-affective disorder, which in layman’s terms is a cross between schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. When she was under severe stress, such as PMS, she would hear voices. These were angry voices that told her how worthless she was, and she would yell back at them. Other times, she would have mood swings. When she was up, she was incredibly funny and sexy. But most of the time, she was timid. Other times, she was paranoid. Those were what psychologists call “positive” symptoms - not in good positive, but those were thoughts and feelings that healthy people don’t normally have. What was worse was her “negative” symptoms - things healthy people do that she could not. While my wife was a caring person, she was oblivious to the feelings of others around her. She didn’t notice when either my son or I were happy, sad, or otherwise occupied with another thought. It was like having a grown-up toddler who needs something now and doesn’t notice that mommy and daddy are busy. I got her to a psychiatrist, who got her on a good cocktail of meds. This helped with the positive symptoms. The voices disappeared. Moods stabilized. But the negative symptoms persisted. After our son was born, she became paranoid about getting pregnant again. Since she couldn’t do the pill, we used condoms. She feared they would break. Eventually, I got a vasectomy. But even with reassurances that I could not get her pregnant, she still panicked when her period was late. Our sex life stopped. No therapy or drug changes could help. I stayed with her, as divorce would have been prohibitively expensive or involved abandoning her. But I outsourced to keep my own sanity. Eventually, my wife developed physical illnesses with her mental ones. She died from breast cancer and a weak heart almost two years ago. I’m sorry for the long story, but I had to explain how my wife’s situation was similar to yours yet not the same. The environment vs. genetics debate goes on in mental health as does the drugs vs. therapy. In both debates, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Your wife needs therapy. She might benefit from drugs. A good start is to get her to a therapist familiar with sexual trauma who is open to working with a psychiatrist for medications if necessary. But I strongly believe that the most important ingredient to wellness is a patient who acknowledges his or her illness and wants to get better. This is true for any physical, mental, or addictive illness. No doctor, therapist, or drug can work unless the patient accepts that he or she has an illness and believes that there is a way to get better. My wife knew in her head that she was sick, but I now doubt she totally accepted it. She took her drugs and saw her therapists, but I don’t think she listened to them. In hindsight, I believe she was incapable of of listening to them. I feel for your wife, but I also feel for you. Not sure by your description if your wife’s trauma is actually real, but it is very real to her. Trust me, that is a very important distinction. She needs help, but more importantly she must want help and believe that she can get better. If she does not, then you are in the dilemna I was once in. I would give anything to have my wife alive but divorced from her so I could pursue my own happiness. I would still be in her life, checking to see that she is getting the help she needs. But I only have so much influence on her happiness and her health. I could not stop either of her illnesses. Sadly, she couldn’t either.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 14, 2019 17:08:53 GMT -5
obobfla wow. Thank you for sharing that description of your wife's illness and what you want through. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry she died young as that's doubtless hard for your child. Going through all that with her was hard for you too. No one can say you didn't try. That's for sure. It strikes me as I read the stories of people on this forum that while some people take marriage far too lightly (not people on iliasm but others), the efforts and pain so many people on this board take to keep their marriages going and families intact are amazing. Probably some of us stay too long. But making the decision to stay or go is incredibly difficult and that's all there is to it.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 15, 2019 20:15:46 GMT -5
You've covered a couple of "whys" there Brother ScottDinTN . Real (or imagined) recent sexual trauma. Her being gay. She says "none of the above" and instead offers up "past sexual trauma" It looks like a straight copy of Brother shamwow 's story (look it up, it's titled Tminus). In that case the past sexual trauma had scant evidence to back it up and actually looks like an outright fib. Not saying your missus is spinning you a line of bullshit, but that could be the case. Anyway, let's assume it is a genuine claim. The only person who can do anything about it is her, and there's not a real lot of evidence that she is doing anything about that, or even wants to. Whether this situation is down to "recent sexual trauma" or "being gay" as you've speculated or "past sexual trauma" as she claims, your options don't alter. As far as your question - "Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?" - I would bet good money that strange avoidance techniques are in the vast majority within this group. You're right, baza, his story is almost a copy of mine. I think the sexual abuse was a crock of shit in retrospect (the story never added up). Like the OP, when it was baby making time the tap turned on just long enough to concieve then slammed shut. You're also right that in the end it did not matter in the slightest what her motives were.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 16, 2019 9:24:21 GMT -5
You've covered a couple of "whys" there Brother ScottDinTN . Real (or imagined) recent sexual trauma. Her being gay. She says "none of the above" and instead offers up "past sexual trauma" It looks like a straight copy of Brother shamwow 's story (look it up, it's titled Tminus). In that case the past sexual trauma had scant evidence to back it up and actually looks like an outright fib. Not saying your missus is spinning you a line of bullshit, but that could be the case. Anyway, let's assume it is a genuine claim. The only person who can do anything about it is her, and there's not a real lot of evidence that she is doing anything about that, or even wants to. Whether this situation is down to "recent sexual trauma" or "being gay" as you've speculated or "past sexual trauma" as she claims, your options don't alter. As far as your question - "Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?" - I would bet good money that strange avoidance techniques are in the vast majority within this group. You're right, baza , his story is almost a copy of mine. I think the sexual abuse was a crock of shit in retrospect (the story never added up). Like the OP, when it was baby making time the tap turned on just long enough to concieve then slammed shut. You're also right that in the end it did not matter in the slightest what her motives were. Same here - sex got to be pretty important when it was intended to make a baby. That was sex that she wanted to have. Elsewise - not so much, with me.
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Post by bpvikesfan on Oct 16, 2019 13:28:59 GMT -5
Checking back in after much research, trying to give the refuser point of view I guess...not really just trying to get my shit together but I have learned some interesting things about my mental illness that is most likely the cause of my sexual problems. It is a condition called anhedonia, this condition is the inability to feel pleasure, simply stated. This can be both emotional and physical and the inability to achieve feeling leads to anxiety and other not so great behavior. For me, I think this will help in trying to become more intimate. This condition is common with depression but is also seen in other mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (that is what i have).
I guess why I am sharing this is because I wanted you to know there is hope for me and also maybe this info could be helpful to some of you who are refused or refusers.
thanks, kt
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Post by Handy on Oct 16, 2019 13:44:59 GMT -5
bpvikesfan, I think we all appreciate hearing the low drive person's point of view and what affects them. So many times our respective spouses don't want to delve into sexuality and often claim we are flawed for liking sex.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 17, 2019 0:17:26 GMT -5
... I have learned some interesting things about my mental illness that is most likely the cause of my sexual problems. It is a condition called anhedonia, this condition is the inability to feel pleasure, simply stated. This can be both emotional and physical and the inability to achieve feeling leads to anxiety and other not so great behavior. You know, there has been research published recently about how SSRI antidepressants can kill libido. Take a stroll through the “Resources” section here - there are a couple threads about it. Some antidepressants are much better in this regard.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 17, 2019 11:25:28 GMT -5
bpvikesfan, those threads weren’t as obvious as I remembered. Do a search here for ‘SSRI’ and another for ‘Welbutrin’ to find relevant comments. Apparently, Wellbutrin is not an SSRI-type anti-depressant, and people report that it is much better about not affecting libido.
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Post by RealMustangGuy on Oct 24, 2019 12:20:04 GMT -5
Yes, to answer your question, my wife was messed up about sex. When dating, there was frequent and mostly good sex, but only in a couple of positions. She always said the rest she was saving for marriage. Which never happened. What did happen was the "bait and switch" and then nothing at all. But back to your question, she would never let me touch her clit. If I did she'd get upset and make me stop, saying the feelings were too powerful. Too powerful? I would have thought that good. After marriage she'd mostly turn away just as you describe. And all kisses became very chaste. I asked her about abuse before but she always said no.
I dated a girl before my marriage who had been abused frequently as a teenager. The outcome of that was she had a serious hatred of a couple of family members but she was really into sex and didn't blame sex at all for what a couple of sick relatives did to her. I know a female friend who was also abused but from what she says she and her husband have a great sex life. Those are the only two cases I can think of where I know the woman was abused. I know how my former girlfriend was; I can only take my friend at her word.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 24, 2019 19:06:56 GMT -5
After marriage she'd mostly turn away just as you describe. And all kisses became very chaste. I asked her about abuse before but she always said no. I dated a girl before my marriage who had been abused frequently as a teenager. The outcome of that was she had a serious hatred of a couple of family members but she was really into sex and didn't blame sex at all for what a couple of sick relatives did to her. I know a female friend who was also abused but from what she says she and her husband have a great sex life. I read in a book once that childhood sexual abuse tends to either kill the sex drive or turn it up to high. I think it is right. Some link any sex to the abuse they received so they despise all sexual contact. With others, they hated the abuse, but it awoken something in them early and now they crave sex.
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