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Post by nyctos on Oct 5, 2019 14:26:53 GMT -5
W and I were in home depot today, shopping. She was getting plants at their 50% off sale, and was pretty excited about how much she could get. It was really cute. And while she was talking I was looking at her lips and wanted to kiss her. So, one we finished loading the car, I gave her a quick kiss on the lips.
OW #1
Actually, I tried. Except she turned her head and put her arms out to block me. My lips didn't get within a foot of any part of her face.
My heart shriveled, and I gave up and just got in the car. She asked me why if tried and I explained, and she said she doesn't like kissing in front of people (which is true, but the parking lot was mostly empty).
OW #2
Then she said, "maybe when you get offered a full-time job" (meaning as opposed to working as a consultant/contractor, so I currently work full time hours and get a decent salary but have to get benefits separately).It's been fairly common for her to put of sex with this sort of "when X happens, we will" sort of excuse, but X is always something that will take at least weeks and usually isn't fully in my control. And when X does occur the previous statements are forgotten. And reminding her would seem just petty🙇. So today was unusual mainly in that she applied it to just a kiss.
OW #3 So then, a couple of minutes later she asks why I look upset, and her tone clearly suggests that I shouldn't be (actually, she asked why I had such an"evil" face).
OW #4 About an hour later when we've gotten back to the house and I've unloaded the plants, she says she'll need to go back to the sale, adding, "don't you want to see your cute wife?" I respond, "not really." She gets annoyed at my supposed, "overreaction" -- but she's not really mad. After all, she won. She's happy. It's just me that had to differ emotionally from this.
I don't know that I can still do this. And I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through a divorce. My other options seen to be just driving away and not coming back or taking a massive drug overdose.
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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 14:48:54 GMT -5
Drive away if you need to but never consider a drug overdose. I say NEVER, you are worth more than that. Even if you did die, many drug overdoses situations leave the person incapacitated in some ways and then you have a lifetime of other problems.
Try therapy first. It is less harm and might result in some solutions.
I too felt like going away for a month but I didn't get all of my plans worked out and didn't want to get hung-up on a problem a week or two down the road. I had all of my camping gear bought but some people i wanted to visit were not going to be home. I had enough gas and food money but not enough motel money, hence the camping gear and mostly sleeping in the car. Well that was the plan but it never happened and that was 5+ years ago. since then I watched several "How to camp-travel on the cheap" videos
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 5, 2019 21:24:15 GMT -5
nyctos... you have good reason to feel done with her. You can get a kiss from someone you’ve barely just met, yet she consciously avoids it. Of course, the excuse doesn’t matter; what matters is that she wanted one. But it is sadly telling that - even if just subconsciously - she sees your desirability as linked to your ability to provide a regular paycheck. If she has any expectation of your help with her project, may I suggest that you “can’t until you have a full-time job” and go do something for yourself. And if you do expect to eject, it’s not in your interest to improve your income before then.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 5, 2019 23:28:31 GMT -5
nyctos I guess we're all pretty familiar with the term "quid pro quo" these days. We see it in the news a lot, don't we? IMHO, any refuser who conditions their marital sexual availability to their spouse's financial performance-or any other accomplishments - is an a-hole. That is TOTAL BS. Sexual quid pro quos are for sex workers and their clients. You give me money, I'll give you sex. Marriage (at least to me) is supposed to be different. What kind of manipulation is this? Where is your wife's support of the mutual partnership that marriage is supposed to be? And by the way, why is she complaining about your work situation while buying a bunch of stuff? The gall! Most importantly, why are you putting up with this crap? Have you spoken with a lawyer?
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Post by michael on Oct 6, 2019 0:45:31 GMT -5
W and I were in home depot today, shopping. She was getting plants at their 50% off sale, and was pretty excited about how much she could get. It was really cute. And while she was talking I was looking at her lips and wanted to kiss her. So, one we finished loading the car, I gave her a quick kiss on the lips. OW #1 Actually, I tried. Except she turned her head and put her arms out to block me. My lips didn't get within a foot of any part of her face. My heart shriveled, and I gave up and just got in the car. She asked me why if tried and I explained, and she said she doesn't like kissing in front of people (which is true, but the parking lot was mostly empty). OW #2 Then she said, "maybe when you get offered a full-time job" (meaning as opposed to working as a consultant/contractor, so I currently work full time hours and get a decent salary but have to get benefits separately).It's been fairly common for her to put of sex with this sort of "when X happens, we will" sort of excuse, but X is always something that will take at least weeks and usually isn't fully in my control. And when X does occur the previous statements are forgotten. And reminding her would seem just petty🙇. So today was unusual mainly in that she applied it to just a kiss. OW #3 So then, a couple of minutes later she asks why I look upset, and her tone clearly suggests that I shouldn't be (actually, she asked why I had such an"evil" face). OW #4 About an hour later when we've gotten back to the house and I've unloaded the plants, she says she'll need to go back to the sale, adding, "don't you want to see your cute wife?" I respond, "not really." She gets annoyed at my supposed, "overreaction" -- but she's not really mad. After all, she won. She's happy. It's just me that had to differ emotionally from this. I don't know that I can still do this. And I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through a divorce. My other options seen to be just driving away and not coming back or taking a massive drug overdose. I know that feeling of wanting to die. For the longest time I would hope a truck would pass the center line and hit me. I never wanted to kill myself, but if an accident happened, I was okay with it. I’ve also wished cancer on myself. It is such a low point to get there. I feel better now, even though my situation isn’t any better. I think what happened is I’m now looking elsewhere. Not necessarily for sex, just a friend. I may have found a couple of friends. It’s very early but it enough to take me out of the depth of my lonely feelings. I’ve only shared my situation with one of my friends, and as it turns out she was in the same situation for three times longer. Helping her as helped my own self esteem. Although it hurts a little knowing she is actively looking for a partner and I’ll likely be out of the picture then but for now...
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Post by saarinista on Oct 6, 2019 0:56:15 GMT -5
Guys, there are decent, caring women out there. You do not have to put up with this abuse. I wouldn't treat anyone so shabbily. That includes my husband. Sex or no sex, people deserve to be treated respectfully.
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Post by isthisit on Oct 6, 2019 1:11:25 GMT -5
W and I were in home depot today, shopping. She was getting plants at their 50% off sale, and was pretty excited about how much she could get. It was really cute. And while she was talking I was looking at her lips and wanted to kiss her. So, one we finished loading the car, I gave her a quick kiss on the lips. OW #1 Actually, I tried. Except she turned her head and put her arms out to block me. My lips didn't get within a foot of any part of her face. My heart shriveled, and I gave up and just got in the car. She asked me why if tried and I explained, and she said she doesn't like kissing in front of people (which is true, but the parking lot was mostly empty). OW #2 Then she said, "maybe when you get offered a full-time job" (meaning as opposed to working as a consultant/contractor, so I currently work full time hours and get a decent salary but have to get benefits separately).It's been fairly common for her to put of sex with this sort of "when X happens, we will" sort of excuse, but X is always something that will take at least weeks and usually isn't fully in my control. And when X does occur the previous statements are forgotten. And reminding her would seem just petty🙇. So today was unusual mainly in that she applied it to just a kiss. OW #3 So then, a couple of minutes later she asks why I look upset, and her tone clearly suggests that I shouldn't be (actually, she asked why I had such an"evil" face). OW #4 About an hour later when we've gotten back to the house and I've unloaded the plants, she says she'll need to go back to the sale, adding, "don't you want to see your cute wife?" I respond, "not really." She gets annoyed at my supposed, "overreaction" -- but she's not really mad. After all, she won. She's happy. It's just me that had to differ emotionally from this. I don't know that I can still do this. And I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through a divorce. My other options seen to be just driving away and not coming back or taking a massive drug overdose. I know that feeling of wanting to die. For the longest time I would hope a truck would pass the center line and hit me. I never wanted to kill myself, but if an accident happened, I was okay with it. I’ve also wished cancer on myself. It is such a low point to get there. I feel better now, even though my situation isn’t any better. I think what happened is I’m now looking elsewhere. Not necessarily for sex, just a friend. I may have found a couple of friends. It’s very early but it enough to take me out of the depth of my lonely feelings. I’ve only shared my situation with one of my friends, and as it turns out she was in the same situation for three times longer. Helping her as helped my own self esteem. Although it hurts a little knowing she is actively looking for a partner and I’ll likely be out of the picture then but for now... If this lady is truly your friend her relationship status matters not. Friends are for keeps. I have many friends who happen to own a penis and if I met a guy whom I liked but had a problem with me having friends with either set of genitalia he would get the heave-ho mighty quick. I can be trusted and would be pissed off at the implication that I can’t. The cheek of it! I’m glad you have support michael have faith in it.
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Post by baza on Oct 6, 2019 3:30:17 GMT -5
It all looks like a very good case to suggest "zipcode therapy". To get away from the toxic situation for long enough to hit some clear air and gather your thoughts. I've said this numerous times on this board but it warrants repeating .... An ILIASM shithole does your head in, gets you thinking weird shit, gets you making uninformed choices, and those uninformed choices feed straight back into the dysfunctional ILIASM loop to repeat and repeat It's imperative that you bust out of the loop Brother nyctos . Your situation is feeding on itself.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 6, 2019 3:51:07 GMT -5
“ I don't know that I can still do this. And I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through a divorce. My other options seen to be just driving away and not coming back or taking a massive drug overdose.”
I was exactly that depressed in my intimacy less Sm. What helped me heal and eventually develop the confidence, strength, and self love to let go of my toxic marriage was individual therapy. It helped me develop a support system, get involved in fulfilling activities without my spouse, and it helped me go through a divorce without angst. All of this took about 5 years. I didn’t go into individual therapy for support getting divorced but for help with my depression. As I healed and became more happy and independent I realized I didn’t want to remain married to a man who was a taker not a giver.
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 6, 2019 10:29:32 GMT -5
If and only if you have your other ducks in a row would I advise just driving off and not looking back. Under no circumstances should the thought of taking your own life enter your head. No, I repeat, no bad marriage is worth that. When it comes to intimacy this woman seems to almost delight in torturing you knowing how it makes you feel. I am in agreement that some zip code therapy might be the best solution for you, at least for a while. This should be along side some individual therapy to address your depression. Get some help my friend, your head isn't where it should be just now.
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Post by solodriver on Oct 6, 2019 12:37:44 GMT -5
nyctos,
Believe me when I tell you that I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS! My wife treated me EXACTLY the same way that yours has treated you. Read some of my backstories and you will see that. I finally decided I had had enough and have emotionally detached myself from her. I don't share anything with her anymore, we sleep in separate rooms, I make my own meals and she makes her own meals, and the only discussions we have are about day-to-day logistics such as the house and car maintenance, the pets or the finances. When I got rejected last year for walking into the bedroom naked to look for a pair of underwear after a shower and was told to hurry up because I "creeped her out" seeing me naked, that was the final straw for me.
I started keeping a journal from that time forward over the past year of her behavior towards me so I would KNOW, not just imagine, how she feels about me. I recorded how she treated over every holiday and here was my final facts about how she feels about me.
- She doesn't care or love me physically or emotionally - She doesn't care what I'm interested in
As a result of her rejecting me sexually and in all other ways, it killed the fun, flirty side of me and left me feeling subdued and feeling humiliated. I don't feel desired and it's killing me. Love means nothing if there is no desire or passion with the other person. (I'm talking about romantic love, not the other kinds of love)
I'm currently working on my exit plan, but due to some bad financial issues we can't separate yet, so we live as roommates. I know it's hard to look at your wife as just a roommate because of the past romantic time that you shared with her. But I'm telling you, you have to realize that it's over, it's in the past, and won't happen again. If you don't come to that conclusion, you will keep living on hope for years on end and when you're my age (60 this month), you will feel even worse for allowing the years to slip by on only hoping and never receiving, the love you deserve and desire with someone who would enjoy that with you. And then you could end up like myself, having to have major obstacles to leaving when you want to.
Please start a journal and state what has/is happening in your relationship with your wife and I know it will help you see your situation very objectively and will help you move forward in what you need to do.
I've learned the hard way that romantic and sexual memories are only good if they are shared with your partner. If she doesn't think of them ever and (in my case) has completely forgotten them (which really hurt me deeply) then you need to get a new life with someone else and get away from this woman. But as Baz always says and it's true, you need to sit down and over a period of time (days, weeks, months) develop a exit plan and be prepared to modify it as needed, but keep it in front of you, along with your journal of interactions with your wife, to keep you motivated to do what you need to do for your happiness. The sooner you start, the more time you will have to enjoy it when it happens.
I have adopted the following mantra for myself.
"If I stay in this marriage I have NO HOPE of having sex again. At least by leaving, I have given myself HOPE that it MIGHT happen again."
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Post by nyctos on Oct 7, 2019 13:34:00 GMT -5
Handy , saarinista , baza northstarmom , itme Thank you for responding -- yes, SM does do a number on your head. I'm not going to off myself. I'm probably not going to just leave either. I can't ever kiss her again, though -- I'll never initiate, and if she tries I'll refuse. I think what, "I'm done" really means is that I have to contact a lawyer. I can no longer wait until the kids are out of school.l
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 7, 2019 14:37:26 GMT -5
Divorce is like eating an elephant. It's a lot to take in at once. You need a plan to break it down into things you are prepared to do. Like, starting with recognizing the contempt with which you are treated and the desperation with which you are avoided.
In posing the quid pro quo, it shows that not only does she not have any of her own desire for you, but also she recognizes and is fully cognizant of the value you place on it. This is not how partners in a marriage work.
If you aren't prepared to commit to a split, then commit to envisioning and scoping what it would look like IF you later decided that. THere's no point in kissing someone that doesn't see you as a sexual partner. It's not like any of this is an oversight or miscommunication on her part. Whatever she acquiesces to, she will ensure that you hate it and that you feel emasculated and humiliated. And she'll resent you all the more for you letting her do that to you.
You do not have a sexual relationship with this person you live with. You are very likely to be getting a divorce within a couple years. Might be good to begin preparing - moving out of the bedroom, finding activities, putting off joint vacations and big investments. Putting time into the friends that you'll keep in the split. Finding out your interests and pursuing them.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 7, 2019 15:21:11 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely find a lawyer. That will probably make you feel a lot better right there. Glad you are feeling like there is hope, because there is!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 17:41:58 GMT -5
I have to admit I have some sympathy for your W on the kiss attempt. If she has expressed before that she isn't comfortable with public displays of affection, you should respect that.
BUT, she blows it all up with the quid pro quo. WTF?! You have every right to be miffed from that point forward.
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