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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 12:34:03 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with your last post. I think you are on to the harsh truth if Tyler74 wants to change his SM situation.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2019 12:36:24 GMT -5
After reading in the sex board Tyler’s description of their wedding night it’s clear that his wife valued virginity more than having a sex life. That is not his fault. What is his fault is continuing to stay with and try to change such a woman.
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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 12:45:28 GMT -5
Yes, the W valuing her virginity over what is normal honeymoon activities was something slightly new to me. It is the first time I read it like that.
I was wondering is his W's first sexual experience was physically painful and that contributed to her reactions.
OTH, I have read forums where women said they could not even insert a tampon because they felt grossed out from vaginal secretions and some never even fingered them self mostly because of shame issues, based on religious beliefs I suppose.
Maybe the opposite for some boys was how far could you pee contests.
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Post by tyler74 on Oct 5, 2019 12:49:28 GMT -5
Tyler74: your sm is your fault. You chose to marry and stay married to a woman who isn’t sexually compatible with you. Your move.., Hi northstarmom. I apparently didn't explain well. I didn't know she was asexual, she didn't know she was, and technically she may not be asexual. Before we married she came across as quite sexual (later finding her to be all talk no action). We never had intercourse before marrying, but we did plenty of other things that many people other than Bill Clinton would consider to be "sexual relations". My thought that she is asexual is just my attempt to explain her behavior. She mislead me (and maybe herself). It's not like I sought out an asexual so I could have something to complain about. Is marrying her my mistake, yes. Is my marrying her my "fault", maybe, but I don't see how it is a certainty. I am not the first person on here to marry someone, have their sex life fall off quickly after marriage, then continue to stay.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2019 12:55:41 GMT -5
I’m not putting you down for marrying her, Tyler. You may even have been victimized by a bait and switch. My comments were to point out that you 2 obviously are sexually incompatible. If you want a vibrant sex life, you are choosing to attempt it with the wrong person.
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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 13:04:42 GMT -5
Tyler, Northstarmom (NSM) and Baza are both wise people and get to the point a bit faster than some other posters. Often it takes years and years for someone in a SM to come to the same conclusion NSM and Baza offer early because NSM and Baza have been through the problems and they found a solution that works.
Lots of posters are on this SM journey and given enough time, many move on and divorce. The sad part is realizing after many tries and often several years the sex averse person stays sex averse and only changes in a very rare case. It might be as low as 1 in 100 or 1 in 200 cases. That goes for men and women. People are who they are and changing for someone else rarely happens.
Another point I want to express is sometimes good people get together but they are not compatible for each other so don't get the idea what you would like to have or what your W would like to have in a marriage is wrong. You can both be right but not right for each other and there in lies the problem.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2019 13:36:26 GMT -5
Individual Therapy helped me value myself and my own needs. It’s the #1 thing that helped me leave my SM. I began living life on my terms and after a while my refuser became superfluous and I was able to move on with no regrets. I was married 34 years, at least 8 straight were completely sexless. When I realized I’d be happier single and celibate forever than remaining in the marriage, I divorced. I’ve now been six years with the love of my life. I’m 68. I never anticipated this would happen for me.
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Post by tyler74 on Oct 5, 2019 13:48:55 GMT -5
I was wondering is his W's first sexual experience was physically painful and that contributed to her reactions. . Handy, my wife does have vaginismus now, but she didn't when we got married (and also didn't when we tried having children, conveniently). Before we were married, she would have me insert larger items than my male part with no problems. The crying wasn't from physical pain. NSM, the signs weren't very clear early on that this was a sexual incompatibility. I was also raised in a home where my parents hated each other, yet divorce was never considered an option. They had 4 kids and 1 miscarriage, explaining all 5 times they had sex. With this upbringing it makes it hard for me to recognize signs of an f'ed up relationship. I know now I mistook what you meant NSM. Just came across initially as, it is all my fault and thus I deserve this. I will try not to be so sensitive and look for brighter meaning in people's comments.
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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 14:38:11 GMT -5
Tyler74 I was also raised in a home where my parents hated each other, yet divorce was never considered an option.
Same here and also with some of my friend's parents when I was a kid. I heard "murder, maybe but never divorce" more than a few times. I never believed the murder part. That was just an emotion talking.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2019 14:42:59 GMT -5
I was raised in the same kind off home as Tyler. My parents were in a sm. I was raised Catholic too. But I decided at 60 that I deserved to live the kind of life I wanted.
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Post by Handy on Oct 5, 2019 14:50:47 GMT -5
WTG Northstarmom!
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 5, 2019 22:06:42 GMT -5
tyler74, a smorgasbord of thoughts here... I have doubts that your wife would react well to being told she’s asexual. I suspect it’s a label that’s best self-administered, and boy is that crowd outspoken about it. My situation has some similarities. An incompatibility that existed since the beginning. Nearly pulled the plug 2 years in. At 18 years, i was still there; I didn’t think I could make it to 20. Now I’m at 30 years and the hole has gotten deeper still. The incompatibility hasn’t changed a bit, despite decades of “why” chasing. My wife may be asexual. Or gay. She may be a sex nymph, but I just can’t manage to activate her (which was my thinking for decades). She may be having sex with the entire football team and just not me. Or she may have a history of sexual trauma that she won’t face. In the end, what matters is that she doesn’t desire *me*, regardless, and isn’t motivated to change - that truly is the “why”. I’ll agree that knowing more might give some peace of mind. You’d like to think that you could fix it if only you knew why; or maybe avoid it in your next relationship. But knowing doesn’t change the reality of the current facts, but it does distract you from taking action. I will tell you this... the hole just keeps getting deeper the longer you let it go unresolved and chase the “why”. It gets exponentially harder to take action with time and life events. To NSM’s comment, you are to blame for your fate, and every day is a decision.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 6, 2019 0:32:16 GMT -5
There is a societal bias that dictates men are the pursuers and women are the gate keepers, so the idea of a refusing wife falls into that paradigm. Combine that with the push against "toxic masculinity," whatever that is, and that really masks a problem where a man has married a sexually incompatible woman for whatever reason. I do agree, though, northstarmom , that no matter what the cause or contributing factor is, it is tyler74 's move. The simplified choices are stay, outsource, or leave.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 6, 2019 4:00:45 GMT -5
To have the strength and confidence to leave a SM one has to decide that one’s needs and desires are more important than what you think society, religion, parents, friends want you to do. No matter what one’s gender, one can find societal reasons to stay. For instance, some think that society trains women to think that their sexual desires are evil or not important. My own mother basically called me a whore for wanting sexually fulfilling relationships. She told me stories of women who were sent to mental asylums due to liking sex. I had to detach from those teachings to leave my sm.
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Post by baza on Oct 6, 2019 4:13:32 GMT -5
The reason I "why" chase is a to find evidence that the SM isn't all my fault (I was raised in a home where having a penis made you guilty and a bad person, thanks Mom). If the why is that she is asexual, then it would be like being married to a lesbian. She would naturally not be interested in being physical with me, and would only want the emotional connection. My wife loves me getting her off, giving her massages, and other physical contact, but doesn't want intercourse, nor does she have much interest in getting me to climax. She was always into the romantic fantasy of sex, but being a virgin had no experience with the real thing. I'll stop here as I can describe this issue all day. If she were a closeted asexual, then it wouldn't be me specifically being rejected, but rather just something she has no interest in with anyone. Wouldn't be her intentionally rejecting me, but rather an asexual marrying a sexual not knowing she was asexual. P.S. Never marry a virgin The ILIASM situation is not all your fault - it rarely is just one spouses' fault. She owns her actions in the dynamic - and you own your actions in the dynamic. She may well have kicked things off with her histrionics on the wedding night to start the marriage down the ILIASM path - but you have been complicit in helping continue the marriages march down that road by your continued presence in the dynamic. The situation could not have continued without your approval/agreement/compliance however grudging your agreement was/is. In any event, blame apportioning or fault finding is a useless exercise in these situations. It won't help move the situation toward resolution by one inch. For what it's worth, someone who "loves (you) getting her off, giving her massages, and other physical contact" does not read like an asexual person. I reckon you can knock that particular "why" on the head and move on to another of the numerous "whys" to chase about.
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