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Post by JMX on Aug 27, 2019 23:31:24 GMT -5
I agree, elynne, that it is easier with money than without. I have enough that I can live modestly but comfortably. Years ago, we were connected through church to a women's shelter. These were women with minor children that were given a place to stay and support while they got back on their feet. It is possible to get out with nothing, if you are lucky enough to get accepted in, but, everything sucks. You are living in sparse conditions with someone elses rules, eating whatever they cook for that meal. Money does indeed create its own worries, but I would rather worry about what to do with my money than what I would do without it. If you personally knew what happened without it (money), you might have a different perspective. It’s one thing to find sympathy for those without, it’s quite another to have empathy.
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Post by elynne on Aug 28, 2019 0:00:22 GMT -5
“It is just as hard WITH money as WITHOUT. Which, honestly, is a testament to all stories here.” JMX, the first time I read this post this bothered me. At 4am, I was lying awake with jet lag and happened to read it again. It still bothers me. I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Leaving is hard. Leaving is really hard. It takes being able to admit the stark reality of your individual situation. It takes acknowledging your own role in the shithole that your marriage evolved into. It takes healing your own crap so you can move forward and move on as a healthier and happier person. You have to stare down your darkest fears and overcome them. None of this is easy. It takes enormous courage. It’s hard for everyone. Each story here is unique. Every individual here has their own personal demons they face. But saying it’s just as hard with money is it is without is absolute crap. It’s an insensitive and entitled comment. It’s hard for everyone. Add to that financial worries, no credit, not knowing if you’re going to be able to feed your children, not being able to find a place to live... Don’t tell me it’s just as hard with money. That really pisses me the fuck off. Again, I understand what you are saying but you have not known my story since it’s birth on EP. And had you known and felt the same - my story is not yours. I didn’t (and don’t) have the exact same issues/circumstances you did. None of us do. When I first decided to get divorced, I had a lien on my fucking house and we had a three month stretch when we only had $1000 to spend on a mortgage (more than that), power, food and various “we have to live” bills. And other things we had to let slide. From your back story, I cannot believe that you can even understand that pressure in the slightest. Skipping a beat, enjoying life for just a bit, not crying every night has been a sincere blessing! I hope you are never there. It really was the worst. Did it change my relationship? No. But it changed my belief in myself. I know what I am capable of by myself. My penance for staying? I will have to pay HIM to get out. And I got us out mostly by myself. Forgive me for taking a fucking breath and still finding out it was filled with black mold that crept up on me and fucked me up again. Nothing I do gets me the love I crave and deserve in my marriage. Which is your story in a different way as well. So, politely, fuck off. As you mentioned, I don’t know your whole story. Nor do you know mine. You don’t know that my ex-husband was physically, emotionally and financially abusive. You can get off your high horse. You’re not the only one here who struggles. You’re proud of yourself for digging yourself out of your financial mess. And you should be. Well done. My point (that baza so much more clearly stated) was that we all share the pain of having a marriage without intimacy. But having enough income to be able to walk away is essentially different and an easier situation than having no income and no place to live. Or being left with massive debts like ballofconfusion. You don’t have to agree with me. But telling me to fuck off (politely or not) is childish and inappropriate. And seriously! You wrote an entire diatribe about how difficult things were when you were struggling financially! That was more difficult than having a decent income, no? I think by going after me, you’re tilting at windmills.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 28, 2019 20:35:33 GMT -5
Two views from the other side... When I left two years ago, I had to essentially start over. I got the retirement, but had so little cash that I had to borrow from relatives to put down my first month's rent. Child support was my largest single largest expense. At age 45 I was essentially starting over. I had no debt. And I had a job that made enough to recover. In very short order, I was able to fly to San Diego to see my little ballofconfusion. Now a bit more than two years out, I'm not back to my previous standard of living but I'm doing just fine. ballofconfusion left within weeks of me but her ex is uncooperative in the divorce process despite living openly gay. Her lawyer sucked so bad she couldn't afford to finish her divorce and couldn't afford to switch (although we just did switch a few weeks ago). If everything is split in the middle it's around 2 to 3 times her annual income. It's a deep, deep, fucking hole. Her ex got himself fired (openly gay doesn't work as head of a catholic school) so support payments ended almost 3 months ago now. Take 2 grand a month out of the budget. And she was already borrowing 2 grand a month from her mom just to make ends meet. A couple grand a month here, a couple grand a month there and you've got a bit of a budget problem. I've helped where I can, but she knows my ex treated me like an ATM machine so she refuses to let me help directly. My way around this is to help her kids where she can't (i.e. Cars) Now it is getting to the point where we may have to accelerate our plan of two years and have her move to Houston in January 2020 rather than July. Of course her high school senior daughter may not want to come to Texas mid school year, but that is the situation. Right now it doesn't look good. When she gets here, she won't have rent or utilities and such and can start to get caught up, but her attorney is advising bankruptcy and I might be in agreement. How that plays out for her kids still needing college help, however, is another matter. Even with all that going on, though, she is glad she left and would do it all over again. So, as someone on the other side with enough income to get by, I can tell you it's sure as fuck easier if you don't have money problems stacked on top of the other problems. Not judging, but just a couple views from the other side.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 10:01:21 GMT -5
A little off subject here but a parent's bankruptcy does not affect children's ability to get Federal Student loans. There is one program (the PLUS) which is affected but that's essentially a non-issue. Bankruptcy is also fairly favorable to your kid's college offers on how it shows up on the FAFSA. So, an attorney would know more but that's the general info.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 29, 2019 10:16:24 GMT -5
Money definitely makes things easier. Not emotionally so much, but even there it can and does make dealing with that issue less volatile. Easier to approach things rationally when your back isn't up against the wall. My 1st divorce 30 odd yrs. ago the court system cleaned my clock. That's just the way it operated back then. I ended back living with my mother for 8 months while I saved enough for a down payment on an old house. The new house on the lake was community property and so was sold as my 1st W want to cash out. Fortunately I had a decent job and I was able to recover eventually. And the stock market was really good to me. But I really don't think there's any argument that having money available is way better than not having it.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 30, 2019 0:44:08 GMT -5
Hey life's a bitch no matter what unless you're having hot sex occasionally or more often.
Could we please avoid telling each other to fuck off, though? Especially when we're not getting fucked for real?
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Post by Handy on Aug 30, 2019 2:12:06 GMT -5
Money can be the grape in the monkey trap. The monkey reaches in to the trap, hangs on to the grape and can't pull its hand out of the trap.
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Post by elynne on Aug 30, 2019 2:22:53 GMT -5
Money can be the grape in the monkey trap. The monkey reaches in to the trap, hangs on to the grape and can't pull its hand out of the trap. Absolutely! Money is another medium that can be used for power and control. Just like intimacy is used in some unhealthy relationships to manipulate or control a partner. Having a nice lifestyle could make it harder to walk away. Interestingly, statistically women take more of a hit financially after divorce. In a divorce, both parties are worse off financially, but women see a bigger decrease in income. Despite that the majority of divorces are filed by women. Interesting statistic.
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Post by elynne on Aug 30, 2019 2:30:28 GMT -5
Hey life's a bitch no matter what unless you're having hot sex occasionally or more often. Could we please avoid telling each other to fuck off, though? Especially when we're not getting fucked for real? As an ex New Yorker, I can swear with the best of them. But agreed. Swearing should be directed at our situations, circumstances, politics, the weather. Not at each other. We have enough on our plates without adding personal attacks from a support group! 😅 BTW, moved into my new house last week! It’s tiny, but mine. I couldn’t get a traditional mortgage from a bank (they require proof of a full year of alimony payments first), so I scrambled and found a private investor to finance my mortgage. Had breakfast this morning in my sweet little garden that was an overgrown jungle yesterday. Nursing my blisters with a cup of coffee in the sunshine. Life is good.
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Wow.
Aug 30, 2019 7:30:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by shamwow on Aug 30, 2019 7:30:17 GMT -5
A little off subject here but a parent's bankruptcy does not affect children's ability to get Federal Student loans. There is one program (the PLUS) which is affected but that's essentially a non-issue. Bankruptcy is also fairly favorable to your kid's college offers on how it shows up on the FAFSA. So, an attorney would know more but that's the general info. Unfortunately, the parent plus loans are the ones we are referring to. The kids go to some expensive schools and can only get a portion of wgst they need on their own. We do plan on discussing this with the attorney, but only after the divorce is done. Our best guess is that we should be able to get a trial from the Peoples Republic of California sometime February / March.
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Post by Handy on Aug 30, 2019 10:03:45 GMT -5
elynne, thanks for the photo. I agree with the idea of "its all mine" that typically is said on this forum.
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Wow.
Aug 30, 2019 10:06:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 10:06:22 GMT -5
A little off subject here but a parent's bankruptcy does not affect children's ability to get Federal Student loans. There is one program (the PLUS) which is affected but that's essentially a non-issue. Bankruptcy is also fairly favorable to your kid's college offers on how it shows up on the FAFSA. So, an attorney would know more but that's the general info. Unfortunately, the parent plus loans are the ones we are referring to. The kids go to some expensive schools and can only get a portion of wgst they need on their own. We do plan on discussing this with the attorney, but only after the divorce is done. Our best guess is that we should be able to get a trial from the Peoples Republic of California sometime February / March. In that case, that does suck. Sorry.
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Post by nyartgal on Aug 30, 2019 20:13:56 GMT -5
My mom loves to use the expression, “I’ve been rich, and I’ve been poor, and rich is better.” Many of us have had wild financial rides (I’m still on mine and hopefully turning in a better direction soon) post-divorce and we all know it sucks. BUT I think it’s also true that while still in a SM, the money doesn’t make the sexlessness any easier. Lonely is lonely. Rejected is rejected. I think that’s what JMX meant. Sometimes, as Elynne can attest, having money keeps you trapped and feeling guilty about your own unhappiness. Money can most definitely make the transition out easier, but doesn’t necessarily make the decision to get out any easier, though you’d think it would.
Can we please applaud two completely BADASS members of this group? JMX who went from serious could-lose-my-house straits to making BANK, and Elynne, who escaped a truly wretched ex and a mindfuck (his and hers versions) as well. That’s amazing! I am so proud of both of you.
JMX, reading your latest posts: GIRL HE IS PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE AS FUCK. Get that book I recommended to you!!! Read it! All that brain space and energy you are currently using wondering why he acts the way he does? You will get it back to use on more enjoyable things!
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 30, 2019 20:49:42 GMT -5
In abstract, I think it’s an interesting topic. Not putting words into any mouths, but some thoughts from my own perspective...
There’s no question that not having money can be a trap - you don’t have the means to get apart and thrive apart, because you’re dependent on having 2 adults in the household - one person with one salary, daycare, logistics, etc. just might not allow for one person to go it alone. Sure, you’re not leaving much behind so the decision is easier, but you don’t have the ability to reach escape velocity.
Having money presents a whole different set of problems. I’m not talking super-rich here, but someone who’s on the path to a comfortable early retirement. Yes, you absolutely have the means to leave - that’s financially easy. But you also have a lot to lose, and that weighs into the decision.
A large, dream home becomes a condo or an apartment. The freedom to pursue personal passions is replaced by a 40-hour job. Family travel and vacations disappear. The plan to retire comfortably at 60 turns into working until 70 with a mediocre retirement. The quality of life you can provide for your kids diminishes; maybe the schools they can attend, due to finances.
It’s easy to say that it’s just money, and you can walk away, but it’s not. It’s decades of life spent working and sacrificing to execute a plan that’s on track to finally payoff in retirement... and knowing that one decision will add an extra 10 working years to your career to recover. That’s 10 years that isn't guaranteed to any of us, and I’d rather be spending them not working.
So, when you add those trade-offs to the mix, leaving becomes a lot less black and white; it’s far more than just being able to pay your bills if you split up.
The cleanest (least debated?) divorces I’ve seen have been those where both spouses worked, had similar large incomes, similar retirements, and the kids were grown. No alimony, no child support, just a split of the major assets (often just the house, cars, and big toys). That’s pretty rare.
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Post by Handy on Aug 31, 2019 1:25:18 GMT -5
DryCreek It’s decades of life spent working and sacrificing to execute a plan that’s on track to finally payoff in retirement... That sums up my situation.
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