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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 21:45:26 GMT -5
Been away a while, focusing on my kids and marriage. All seemed to be taking a good turn for the better, but we always end up back where we started. Here's one thing I've discovered over the past several months of work and self-discovery (and many of you have already come to this realization), that is sex (or lack thereof) really is a symptom of a bigger/different problem. More sex won't fix whatever else is broken in the marriage. Try as you might, the facts are the facts. My advice for anyone who cares, look outside the circle of your bedroom. Somewhere therein the problem lies. Not ready to call it quits, but definitely finally see sex isn't the answer ... at least for me.
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Post by baza on Jul 3, 2019 22:25:13 GMT -5
Possibly the biggest hurdle to overcome is thinking that the primary problem in an ILIASM deal is the sex.
Time after time in here, initial posters tell a tale of a dysfunctional spouse with assorted issues and behaviours that are impacting badly on the marriage, yet at the same time claim that "everything is great bar the sex".
If you can get past this stage of the process - and that is no easy matter, involving asking yourself some very searching questions - then you are well on the way to seeing your situation for what it really is.
Of course that realisation opens another can of worms.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 4, 2019 3:05:02 GMT -5
From where I sit, we have to value ourselves enough to make opening the can of worms necessary. Even if that means going through some pain. In my experience, sometimes when you are ready to open the can of worms, the other party might be fully intent on keeping it shut bc they might not be ready to face their demons, or they may no longer care [apathy]. Of course that realisation opens another can of worms.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 5:20:21 GMT -5
baza ... Well, I guess I'm well on my way ... to yet another layer to peel and more reality bites to swallow. Oh joy .... but still I take that next step forward. One babystep at a time.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 4, 2019 11:49:44 GMT -5
@whynotm3, I’ll offer a slightly different spin...
All marriages are flawed. We all have negative traits - things we do or don’t do; it’s a question of how easily those can be overlooked / tolerated / compensated for elsewhere. Intimacy goes a long way toward greasing the skids of marriage - helping us see the positives and overlook the negatives.
Intimacy might wane on its own, or maybe it gets snuffed by some extra bad behavior. Either way, when the balance gets tipped, our attitude sours and those traits become less tolerable. It’s easy to become a death spiral, because who wants intimacy when you’re angry? (Perhaps this is where angry / makeup sex plays a valuable role?)
In your case, you’ve got an extra drain on the intimacy side of the balance. H is choosing to give intimacy to other partners while you aren’t getting enough. His priorities are in the wrong place; even if his behavior hasn’t changed otherwise, that’s going to cause problems. That’s like going on a cruise while you skip mortgage payments.
Bottom-line: His lifestyle should be a supplement to a healthy marriage; it sounds like he’s letting it become a substitute.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 12:27:46 GMT -5
@whynotm3, I’ll offer a slightly different spin... All marriages are flawed. We all have negative traits - things we do or don’t do; it’s a question of how easily those can be overlooked / tolerated / compensated for elsewhere. Intimacy goes a long way toward greasing the skids of marriage - helping us see the positives and overlook the negatives. Intimacy might wane on its own, or maybe it gets snuffed by some extra bad behavior. Either way, when the balance gets tipped, our attitude sours and those traits become less tolerable. It’s easy to become a death spiral, because who wants intimacy when you’re angry? (Perhaps this is where angry / makeup sex plays a valuable role?) In your case, you’ve got an extra drain on the intimacy side of the balance. H is choosing to give intimacy to other partners while you aren’t getting enough. His priorities are in the wrong place; even if his behavior hasn’t changed otherwise, that’s going to cause problems. That’s like going on a cruise while you skip mortgage payments. Bottom-line: His lifestyle should be a supplement to a healthy marriage; it sounds like he’s letting it become a substitute. Thanks DryCreek .. I do agree and have been trying to follow along on that line of thought, hence focusing on us and physical time together. I'm coming to see that - sex aside - we don't have much in common (he's a homebody who wants to be asleep by 8pm and I'm on the go, enjoying new places and things; different genres of movies; different habits, energy levels on top of vastly different sex drives, etc..) Yes, bad spot last night when I posted. You're spot on with that assumption. That said, I am seeing that - if physical and emotional intimacy remains scarce - there may be far too much to 'overlook' despite the positives my H does provide. I guess I'm seeing it really isn't just one issue, but a series of mismatches which may (or may not) be able to be tolerated by me for the long haul. One more self-discovery on my part. Still growing/processing here.
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Post by notdeadyet on Jul 4, 2019 15:17:48 GMT -5
(Replying mostly to whynotm3) I think most of us would agree that this issue is much bigger than our individual marriages. It is one of the leading causes of infidelity and divorce. It's an issue that is tearing at the heart of western civilization. I keep looking for the root cause of so many SMs today. I do NOT believe it is because men have become such selfish rat bastards in the last 50 or so years (apparently this is a fairly recent phenomenon culturally). I do believe modern feminism is the problem! It's this generation of women that has been brought up to be selfish, That, and the fact that women naturally tend to bring so damn much baggage with them into the bedroom. Women today want to be men. They want to be in charge, make the rules, prove that Momma knows best (and that Daddy is a selfish dolt), and her chosen bludgeon is control of all sex! That's how she keeps her man subservient and suffering. I believe it's a calculated and strategic strike at the heart of the nuclear family! Liberals have even advocated sex strikes if men don't vote the way they are told to. How manipulative and coercive can you get? I'd love to get feedback from some of the women members, here.
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Post by baza on Jul 4, 2019 18:58:32 GMT -5
Might be wise to put your flack jacket on Brother notdeadyet . Within this particular group there's not much - if any - evidence to support the premise that modern feminism causes the problem of being in a sexless marriage. In fact, roughly half the marriages in here are situations where it is the husband who is the refuser, which puts a rather severe dent in the reasoning. The common aspect of the marriages that appear in this group are situations where there is fundamental incompatability in assorted aspects of the marriage .... even in the very basic things, like sex. The political views of the protagonists may - coincidentally - be at odds too, like other secondary issues such as religious views etc. But again, there is within this group, very little if any evidence to suggest that modern feminism is a significant factor - let alone "THE" factor - in ILIASM situations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 19:19:05 GMT -5
Thank you baza .... I've enough to deal with without having to try and figure that one out.
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Post by isthisit on Jul 4, 2019 19:26:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought it easier and preferable to just ignore this too. After all, there’s a new season of Deadliest Catch to watch.
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Post by elkclan2 on Jul 5, 2019 2:56:42 GMT -5
Oh bfar, yes, women having equal access to things like credit cards, careers, voting and representation or having access to reliable birth control are what's causing sexless marriages. Makes perfect sense.
I was the woman in a sexless marriage. Not my choice. I was the one who wanted sex in the marriage and didn't get it. Eventually though I realised that I didn't want sex with a man who was controlling, bad in bed, verbally and emotionally abusive - including degrading my sexual self - and who'd turned to an ideology of bitterness and resentment (much as you have). I actually didn't want a man who refused to help with child care and insisted that picking up toys in the house was my job "because you're the mother". (I was working pretty much full time and bringing in the bigger paycheck, so no we hadn't agreed this division of labour). I did realise eventually that I didn't want to have sex with a man who was using denial of sex as a method of control.
I eventually escaped that marriage and after a period of singledom I met a wonderful and liberal minded guy who not only helps around the house - including picking up fatherly roles that my ex is too lazy to do - but who also likes to fuck my brains out on a regular basis. He respects my career and my ambitions and those of other women.
We try to treat all aspects of our relationship with openness and generosity, from household chores and supporting each other's jobs (I'm now his social media manager and help him with field work). We keep that spirit of generosity in the bedroom and want to please each other. We've had sex 3 times in the last 12 hours. (Mind you I was away for work for a couple of days, so catching up).
Feminism isn't what's causing your bedroom problems.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 5, 2019 11:34:31 GMT -5
Interesting discussion...
I think blaming feminism is misguided. But having said that, I do think the "rules" are changing and there is confusion among men.
I believe woomen are becoming much more independent. Part of that is being opportunistic about love and partners. Before you start throwing hatchets, hear me out.
I think women have thrown out the traditional rule books about love and marriage. Till death do us part and all that. They see opporrtunities for love and sex and fulfillment and are willing to chase it, even if its on the sly.Bc Self discovery and you only live once and all that. This is empowering
I don't think men have caught on to that. Many men still operate by the traditional rules and let themselves go bc, "till dearh do us part". Once the ring is on, they think the courting is done.
Ok...let me have it 😜
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Post by sadkat on Jul 5, 2019 12:26:44 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight... 🤔. bfar thinks women should continue to allow their men to grab them by the hair and drag them into the bedroom whenever they are in the mood for sex. Daddeeo thinks that women should stay in marriages where they are not loved or supported because they made a promise to “honor, love, and obey” til death do they part??
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Post by 2019change on Jul 5, 2019 12:54:27 GMT -5
This may seem weird but maybe we can look at the lack of sex as a good thing. We use that to explain and justify all the other problems in a marriage. Anything that happen we internalize the cause is because we don't have sex. It's a good coping mechanism when we convince ourselves our marriage only has one problem rather than many.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 5, 2019 13:34:06 GMT -5
@whynotm3 , I’ll offer a slightly different spin... All marriages are flawed. We all have negative traits - things we do or don’t do; it’s a question of how easily those can be overlooked / tolerated / compensated for elsewhere. Intimacy goes a long way toward greasing the skids of marriage - helping us see the positives and overlook the negatives. Intimacy might wane on its own, or maybe it gets snuffed by some extra bad behavior. Either way, when the balance gets tipped, our attitude sours and those traits become less tolerable. It’s easy to become a death spiral, because who wants intimacy when you’re angry? (Perhaps this is where angry / makeup sex plays a valuable role?) In your case, you’ve got an extra drain on the intimacy side of the balance. H is choosing to give intimacy to other partners while you aren’t getting enough. His priorities are in the wrong place; even if his behavior hasn’t changed otherwise, that’s going to cause problems. That’s like going on a cruise while you skip mortgage payments. Bottom-line: His lifestyle should be a supplement to a healthy marriage; it sounds like he’s letting it become a substitute. Thanks DryCreek .. I do agree and have been trying to follow along on that line of thought, hence focusing on us and physical time together. I'm coming to see that - sex aside - we don't have much in common (he's a homebody who wants to be asleep by 8pm and I'm on the go, enjoying new places and things; different genres of movies; different habits, energy levels on top of vastly different sex drives, etc..) Yes, bad spot last night when I posted. You're spot on with that assumption. That said, I am seeing that - if physical and emotional intimacy remains scarce - there may be far too much to 'overlook' despite the positives my H does provide. I guess I'm seeing it really isn't just one issue, but a series of mismatches which may (or may not) be able to be tolerated by me for the long haul. One more self-discovery on my part. Still growing/processing here. Sounds like completely different love languages? One thing that the book about love languages talked about was how different love languages could get along? Really? I find it much easier having the same love languages as I get along with my new partner! Last night was the 4th of july. We had the house to ourselves. my immediate,(elderly), neighbors stay indoors. Meanwhile one block over their where hundreds of fireworks going off. An awesome view from the backyard. A very nice breeze on a clear night. We talked about how we used to go out to eat and visiting places when we first started dating, and how now, we really enjoy the peace and solitude of being together in the yard at night. Something about myself that I knew I liked, but would my partner? She likes it too! I love sharing it with her! We had awesome sex , both of us naked right in the backyard ,as the rockets red glare and the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that MY flag was still there!! ( something to take off the bucket list) I loved seeing her body ,illuminated by the fireworks, while we were making our own! Asleep by 8? Well, the both of us came home around 2, tired from lots of yard work in the extreme heat. WE both agreed to what our plans where for that night, ( watching fireworks) so we took a little nap together. That helped later in the night . Communication, equal agreement, trust, which means some submitting on both parts, makes a big difference. As I type this we are both in our bathing suits. My partner mentioned the beach. I agreed but suggested later in the day when the crowd is less and the heat not so extreme. 5 or 6 oclock will be better. Will it cary into the night? Most likely! Your H needs to see that his way is not the only way. A relationship IS a 2 way street!
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