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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 7:17:41 GMT -5
Why I'm in the choosing to stay camp, by Mo.
Making the choice to stay involved so many complex factors. I asked myself again and again these questions and more. Can I support myself? This is an easy one. Yes I can. Is being on my own what I want? No. Do I have any hope of a sexual relationship with my spouse? No, not in several years. Would my children be affected if we split? Of course, but they are adults so the impact on grown children is different than on dependent children. Would I find the kind of companionship and deep understanding of one another in a different relationship? Would I want a different relationship? No and no. But does the lack of a physical connection affect me? Yes. Do I have the coping mechanisms for this effect? I do.
This is my perspective on my own marriage and family. If you view this board, I'd hope you understand. Since I see opposing views on the Choosing to Stay board, my expectations are low.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Aug 15, 2019 9:23:39 GMT -5
I feel like people are supportive of whatever you choose. It seems to me more stay than leave and the ones that did leave took years and years of living in a SM before we finally did get out. With a few exceptions. People even seem pretty non judgemental about outsourcing. More so than on this group on EP. I say whatever works for you. I personally couldn't keep the hurt and anger and detachment from flowing over into every aspect of the marriage. If I could have I may have stayed. Almost did anyway just because it's easier financially and ending it ( being the bad guy) was pretty close to the hardest thing I've done. It is the hardest thing I did that I had a choice in.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 15, 2019 9:25:20 GMT -5
Why do I stay?
Because I want to see my kids everyday and they want to see me.
Because Im scared of what divorce looks like. Mentally, spiritually, Im not there yet.
Because we once did have a great sex life. I know she likes the D.
Because I tried to outsource and realized that its hard to have the connection I have with W.
Because despite sex or lack thereof, I still love W a whole lot.
Because I like lying next to W. She is the last thing I see and hear before I sleep and the first when I wake.
Because the lack of sex has forced me to take a hard look at myself and ask difficult questions. Questions that if I act upon, will make me a better (more attractive?) person for whoever my next partner might be.
Because for now, being married, even without sex, is better than not being married.
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Post by njsojourner on Aug 26, 2019 20:56:12 GMT -5
I choose to stay for as long as I can manage it--wife can't have sex due to medical issues (and desire too I suppose). BUT, to survive, given my desire and need for sex, I outsource. I do realize it all may explode on me someday but frankly, I take as many precautions as possible and enjoy a fun time without my wife's knowledge or consent. Why? because when I tried to discuss this honestly with her she shut me down in a flash. Frankly, we have good times except for lack of sex, have wonderful children and grandchildren and enjoy life together except for sex. i could be celibate, like a priest, but that's not for me. So when he day comes that she finds out and confronts me I will share the times I tried to discuss it with her and seek her permission and develop rules. But honestly, to me sex is fun, like recreation. Sex with love is perfection to be sure; but sex without love is crazy great too. Three years in and I have no regrets yet.
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Post by solodriver on Sept 1, 2019 18:27:03 GMT -5
Just as a sidebar - relevant to the "my spouse would be crushed if we parted" arguement. There's not a real lot of evidence (in this group) to support this view. Some examples....the spouses of northstarmom , bballgirl , greatcoastal , shamwow , nyartgal , merrygoround to name just a handful. The spouses of these members (after the initial shock) don't appear to have been crushed by the event in any long term sense. Indeed they seem to have conducted their lives quite satisfactorily after divorcing. That's not to suggest you ought make a charge for the exit, just making the point that - in this group - there is very little evidence that your spouse would be *crushed* were the ILIASM deal be ended. Not to throw a wet blanket on the post. I was afraid my spouse would fall apart. Not that he cared I was falling apart. I did everything I could to make it easier on him. I gave him plenty of warnings that I was on my way out of course he says he didn't think I would. I made him more self reliant. I paid off the bills set up his bill pay. Encouraged him to do things with his friends without me. He fell apart . Been 2 years. He has our kids, his mom and myself stressed out. I spend my time walking around saying not my circus not my monkeys. I also did counseling the first year to stay strong. Still glad I left. I blocked him on everything but email. Hoping he will be starting some magnetic therapy soon. He's both a narcissist and suffers from depression. Guess if he couldn't cope he should have treated me right. "Not my circus, not my monkeys." I'm putting that one in my journal too. Thanks!
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Post by solodriver on Sept 1, 2019 19:07:26 GMT -5
I feel like people are supportive of whatever you choose. It seems to me more stay than leave and the ones that did leave took years and years of living in a SM before we finally did get out. With a few exceptions. People even seem pretty non judgemental about outsourcing. More so than on this group on EP. I say whatever works for you. I personally couldn't keep the hurt and anger and detachment from flowing over into every aspect of the marriage. If I could have I may have stayed. Almost did anyway just because it's easier financially and ending it ( being the bad guy) was pretty close to the hardest thing I've done. It is the hardest thing I did that I had a choice in. When I finally execute the separation and divorce, being the bad guy, asshole, shitbag and whatever else I will be called by her and others is going to be the tough part for me. But I remember a plaque I had on my bedroom wall growing up: "Don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in his shoes." I will have to learn to ignore them because they have NO idea what they are talking about.
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Post by csl on Sept 1, 2019 21:52:26 GMT -5
I will have to learn to ignore them because they have NO idea what they are talking about.
Or.... you could educate them. T'will embarrass the Hades out of your wife, but she should come out of this on the side of the angels? After all, Prov. 18.17.
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Post by njsojourner on Sept 15, 2019 6:13:36 GMT -5
I recently shared my situation and solution with a close friend who I trust completely. He said that "if she really loved me she would have sex with me." I know that is a common response here too. Frankly, I do not accept that is always the case. True, for some, that is so--they have fallen out of love and just can't admit it and accept that. But for others, my wife, in particular, I do believe she does love me as I do her. She just can't physically have sex without pain. I have no desire to see her hurting. She is totally committed to me in so many other ways. That is more than many men have in their relationship with their spouse. But I have needs and yes, I know the response of many: if she really, really loved me she would give me permission. Let's get real--how often does that really happen? In the "old" days, it was commonly accepted that men would have a woman on the side for sex. In some cultures it was thought to be good for the wife--she didn't have to deal with her sex-crazed husband that often. Today, between the stress of daily life, longer life spans and health issues, etc., sex is not so easy for many.
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Post by crazyheart on Sept 15, 2019 7:51:19 GMT -5
I recently shared my situation and solution with a close friend who I trust completely. He said that "if she really loved me she would have sex with me." I know that is a common response here too. Frankly, I do not accept that is always the case. True, for some, that is so--they have fallen out of love and just can't admit it and accept that. But for others, my wife, in particular, I do believe she does love me as I do her. She just can't physically have sex without pain. I have no desire to see her hurting. She is totally committed to me in so many other ways. That is more than many men have in their relationship with their spouse. But I have needs and yes, I know the response of many: if she really, really loved me she would give me permission. Let's get real--how often does that really happen? In the "old" days, it was commonly accepted that men would have a woman on the side for sex. In some cultures it was thought to be good for the wife--she didn't have to deal with her sex-crazed husband that often. Today, between the stress of daily life, longer life spans and health issues, etc., sex is not so easy for many. Totally agree that for some, they may love you very much but cant get themselves to want it even if there is no related a medical condition
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 15, 2019 9:31:32 GMT -5
I recently shared my situation and solution with a close friend who I trust completely. He said that "if she really loved me she would have sex with me." I know that is a common response here too. Frankly, I do not accept that is always the case. True, for some, that is so--they have fallen out of love and just can't admit it and accept that. But for others, my wife, in particular, I do believe she does love me as I do her. She just can't physically have sex without pain. I have no desire to see her hurting. She is totally committed to me in so many other ways. That is more than many men have in their relationship with their spouse. But I have needs and yes, I know the response of many: if she really, really loved me she would give me permission. Let's get real--how often does that really happen? In the "old" days, it was commonly accepted that men would have a woman on the side for sex. In some cultures it was thought to be good for the wife--she didn't have to deal with her sex-crazed husband that often. Today, between the stress of daily life, longer life spans and health issues, etc., sex is not so easy for many. Another 'common response' on here, that you might agree with is this, " If your spouse has pain during intercourse, there are many other viable options for that spouse to partake in, and still GIVE pleasure to the other spouse". This way they are still committed to you, and not only themselves. Ie: oral, hand stimulation, massages, sex toys, etc... Then comes a whole other world of the much needed INTIMACY. ( 5 love languages) Touch, words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts, and quality time. . Their is a whole lot going on here involving giving and taking. And your spouses fears and mental problems going all the way back to childhood, and their upbringing. Sex is not easy for some, Red flags to look out for, if you manage to have a new beginning.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Sept 15, 2019 9:42:05 GMT -5
I think having a medical issue you try to resolve with no luck is different then the majority of sexlesses marriages. And as a woman with jealousy issues I would not be able to handle my spouse taking a lover. It still sucks for you. There are other ways you could still both get pleasure and still cuddle and have that closeness. While not having sex was an issue for me the bigger picture was he didn't care about what I wanted or needed. Eventually when he could no longer perform he wouldnt even discuss it with the doctor.
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Post by njsojourner on Sept 16, 2019 20:21:55 GMT -5
All good comments for sure. My wife and I still are affectionate to a point. And she is willing to provide other forms of sexual "relief" -- handjobs, for example. She has never liked to give me oral and I never pushed her to do so. Ultimately, I suppose it boils down to how much does one push or demand (?) someone do something they don't like to do to satisfy someone else? I have always believed in respecting someone's limits, comfort zone much to my own detriment. But should sex be a one-way street? I don't have the answer really but my wife seems happy without sex of any kind; I am happy with sex wherever I can get it safely. I certainly respect others decisions to live a celibate life and don't judge those who don't. We are all human trying our best to get through life and no one solution works for everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 12:09:44 GMT -5
I think having a medical issue you try to resolve with no luck is different then the majority of sexlesses marriages. And as a woman with jealousy issues I would not be able to handle my spouse taking a lover. It still sucks for you. There are other ways you could still both get pleasure and still cuddle and have that closeness. While not having sex was an issue for me the bigger picture was he didn't care about what I wanted or needed. Eventually when he could no longer perform he wouldnt even discuss it with the doctor. This. My W started having pain during/after menopause. She didn't see a doctor, didn't read an article, nothing. I truly believe she saw it as the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card. That's when I started coming here.
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Post by tiredoftears on Oct 3, 2019 3:12:26 GMT -5
Hopingforachange, I respectfully disagree. We, neither, gave any credence to, whatever, our wedding vows were. The silly ceremony was just what was necessary to legalize the marriage in Dillon, SC (South of the Border) when we married. We simply drove down there from where we lived in NC because it was the quickest and easiest way to get sleeping together legal. And I don't think that sex is necessarily an obligation in a relationship. There are just times that one or the other just isn't ready. So I don't think my wife has broken any vows or obligations. I do, however, question her not suggesting some kind of open marriage. I know that, the situation being reversed, I would. But unless, and until, she did make the suggestion, in complete honesty, I'm just not interested in finding a FWB. I really don't want to cheat on her, I'd prefer cheating with her. I'd want the other woman to know that she knows. For me, perfect would be, another couple in the same situation but it being the husband no longer interested. And in a Utopian world, my wife and the other husband could also be friends and maybe take off down to Disney for the day while the other wife and I have our private time. That sounds lovely.
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Post by tiredoftears on Oct 5, 2019 16:01:57 GMT -5
Funny. We’ll be heading to Disney World next week. We go at least once a year. W loves it and knows I could do without it. I’ve often thought about how she gets to go to her happy place while I never see mine. We’re going with all my in-laws. W’s oldest brother is a bigger Disney freak than W is. His exW left him for another man. I’ve always wondered about that... Yeah, in November, we are going to the drag races in Pomona, something he loves. I have no interest in racing, but I go with him, and used to watch with him,and cheer.... to be supportive of something he enjoys. I stopped watching it with him a few months, maybe up to a year ago. After we go this year, I am telling him I'm not going anymore, and pointedly saying it's because we don't fuck. It doesn't benefit me at all to go to the races. He can take our kid for company.
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