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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 31, 2018 5:44:53 GMT -5
When two people go to marriage therapy and one wants in and the other wants out, it's a bad idea.
Two against one is not going to work. The one who is being ganged up on is going to leave.
Most all marriage therapists are ill-equipped to handle a SM.
A narcissist or a assexual spouce is very skilled at talking circles around therapy.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 31, 2018 5:51:01 GMT -5
Of course if one spouse wants out marital therapy isn’t going to make them stay....
For many couples here, that’s not what one wants from marital therapy. At least one spouse wants the other to want to fuck them and to enjoy fucking them. Marriage therapy can’t make someone lust after you. It may enable a person’s sexually engaging with you but that may result in duty sex not mutual passion.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 31, 2018 5:58:08 GMT -5
Of course if one spouse wants out marital therapy isn’t going to make them stay.... For many couples here, that’s not what one wants from marital therapy. At least one spouse wants the other to want to fuck them and to enjoy fucking them. Marriage therapy can’t make someone lust after you. It may enable a person’s sexually engaging with you but that may result in duty sex not mutual passion. And too many of us have learned that "duty sex" is too little, too late and is even more damaging in the long run. |
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Post by baza on Jul 31, 2018 6:43:25 GMT -5
I believe that marital counselling requires two people to attend, both with their own shit as sorted out as they can get it.
That's the first pre-requisite.
If you - and/or your spouse - do NOT have your individual shit pretty well sorted out, forget it.
The next thing is the aim of the counselling. If you or your spouse or the counsellor are running a line of "saving the marriage" then forget it. This counselling ain't about that at all. It is a digging down to the truth agenda, whatever that truth might be. The outcome cannot be mandated, it will be what it will be. And you might not like what it is.
Third, the counsellor. They ain't all good. Take Sister elynne 's counsellor. That counsellor ought have her degree torn up and stuffed up her arse. The counsellor needs to be someone you are both comfortable with, but not too comfortable as they have to challenge you, call you out on any bullshit you are engaging in, and loosely direct proceedings without running the show. Quite a balancing act.
Suffice to say, I ain't a fan.
Potentially it could be great, but getting those ducks above lined up is a real long shot.
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Post by elkclan2 on Jul 31, 2018 11:36:34 GMT -5
Another time marital counselling is a bad idea is when one partner is abusive. baza, unfortunately a lot of marital counselling is about saving the 'relationship' sometimes at the cost of the abused party. I wish more marital counsellors wouldn't necessarily try to be even handed and say I don't think you should be here (e.g. elynne). I completely agree with your assessment of the professional credentials of her marriage counsellor and what should be done with her accreditations and certifications. The one session I attended was a revelation - the guy who came into - my SM spouse - wasn't the guy who I lived with on an every day basis. He was a much more reasonable and non-ragey kind of guy. In a way that was a good thing, so he clearly told me in that one session that he had never been attracted to me - that he had a 'much purer' love for me. <puke>. Thanks for letting me know that now - asshole. But he seemed to have the counsellor pretty well snowed. |
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Post by flashjohn on Jul 31, 2018 14:25:26 GMT -5
Therapy was a waste of time for me & my refuser. She was very difficult. Since I was the one who would do the assignments and make efforts, the therapists would just focus on what I could do. My refuser ended up doing nothing but complaining and criticizing me.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 31, 2018 14:33:52 GMT -5
Therapy was a waste of time for me & my refuser. She was very difficult. Since I was the one who would do the assignments and make efforts, the therapists would just focus on what I could do. My refuser ended up doing nothing but complaining and criticizing me. Was that helpful for you? Finally realizing what you are dealing with? It was for me. Hindsight is 20/20. I now look back and think of all of her DARVO answers , disrespectful behaviors, and controlling lies and regret that i tolerated it as long as I did. Much of it came out (slowly) during therapy, and the days spent on here. It's very good to read/hear someone who is highly esteemed in the field of marriage therapy, speak out against the idea that ALL marriages are savable. |
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Post by flashjohn on Jul 31, 2018 14:41:15 GMT -5
Was that helpful for you? Finally realizing what you are dealing with? It was for me. Hindsight is 20/20. I now look back and think of all of her DARVO answers , disrespectful behaviors, and controlling lies and regret that i tolerated it as long as I did. Much of it came out (slowly) during therapy, and the days spent on here. It's very good to read/hear someone who is highly esteemed in the field of marriage therapy, speak out against the idea that ALL marriages are savable. It was not helpful, but it was enlightening. I found out later that this is very common when one of the spouses is a Narcissist/Borderline. The non-disordered spouse is the one who is capable of making changes, so the therapist ends up focusing on that person. Then the disordered spouse just sits back and tears down the other one's efforts as not being good enough.
One psychologist who I spoke to informally told me that if he is talking to a client and finds himself wanting to slap him or her after about 15 minutes, he realizes he is probably talking to a borderline or narcissist. They never take any responsibility.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 31, 2018 14:55:42 GMT -5
One psychologist who I spoke to informally told me that if he is talking to a client and finds himself wanting to slap him or her after about 15 minutes, he realizes he is probably talking to a borderline or narcissist. They never take any responsibility.
My/our psychologist seemed duped by my ex's 'fly below the radar' very calm controlling methods of manipulative control. Not all narcs are emotional whacko's . In fact quiet a few are highly intelligent and quiet skilled and gifted at manipulation through words. However it was our psychologist who declared " There is nothing left to save here, not even a dying ember. The two of you are setting a terrible example for your teens of what a loving caring ,giving relationship ought to be". Me and my psychologist made much more progress one on one, after my W left. The deeper we got into the divorce, the uglier thing got, and the more blatantly obvious it became about just what i was dealing with. My psychologist had just gotten over a divorce with a manipulative controlling spouse and did all he could to encourage me to not be a "rollover and play dead victim like he did". it was interesting to hear him confess that he was taken, and mislead by my ex in the beginning. I suspect this happens regularly in many therapists offices. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 1, 2018 6:31:54 GMT -5
Couples therapy was a good thing for me but I think that’s because we were both there to be open and honest and see where it took us. Our objective was not to “save the marriage” but to actually talk about our problems. It led to clarity for both of us and in the months after stopping counseling we both came to the conclusion on our own that divorcing was the best thing for us.
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