|
Post by choosinghappy on Jul 21, 2018 19:25:08 GMT -5
flyingsoloYes, I did exactly that. I lost 7 figures and my kids blame me since I filed. I’ll keep you posted how it shakes out. I also chose to turn down millions in exchange for my freedom and a chance to one day have a happy relationship. Money isn’t everything. I’d rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable.
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jul 21, 2018 19:38:27 GMT -5
Oh I've already spoken to a lawyer. A divorce will cost me seven figures which slows the roll a bit. Would you be so willing to divorce quickly if it cost you over $1,000,000 and resulted in you only seeing your grade school aged kids a few times a week? flyingsolo you say it will cost a million dollars. How does that break down? I'm just curious about the line items, etc. have you backed the possible costs of staying (therapy, tranquilizer and heart attack care copays, wooing for an AP) out of the cost of leaving?
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jul 21, 2018 19:40:41 GMT -5
I also chose to turn down millions in exchange for my freedom and a chance to one day have a happy relationship. Money isn’t everything. I’d rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable. Agree. I left a marriage where I wouldn't have had to work at all. I'm much happier now, even though I probably won't be able to afford to retire until I'm 100! unemployment and retirement are no fun if you ask me. Moneey does NOT buy happiness. So you've both come out totally ahead.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Jul 21, 2018 19:40:57 GMT -5
flyingsolo Yes, I did exactly that. I lost 7 figures and my kids blame me since I filed. I’ll keep you posted how it shakes out. I also chose to turn down millions in exchange for my freedom and a chance to one day have a happy relationship. Money isn’t everything. I’d rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable. When I go through the process, that's exactly how I will end up. Just hope that poor and broke isn't a complete turn off.
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jul 21, 2018 19:49:52 GMT -5
I also chose to turn down millions in exchange for my freedom and a chance to one day have a happy relationship. Money isn’t everything. I’d rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable. When I go through the process, that's exactly how I will end up. Just hope that poor and broke isn't a complete turn off. when you say poor and broke, what do you really mean, solodriver ? I guess money means different things to different people, as do the terms rich and poor. I'm sure there are some people out there who are seeking only a person with substantial ass up assets. But everyone has a different view of what substantial is to and the word asset is also relative. There's no way in the world I'd marry a rich person who didn't share my world views or respect me. But to some people that wouldn't be important. There are a lot of us on this board who may have more money married than we would divorced. Of course there's really no telling what the future holds. But if we're still married, are we happy with more money? probably not, because we're still on this forum. What does that tell you? edited-"ass up" should have been "assets."
I have a broken wrist and am prone to typos (some Freudian!) until further notice!
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Jul 21, 2018 20:28:59 GMT -5
When I go through the process, that's exactly how I will end up. Just hope that poor and broke isn't a complete turn off. when you say poor and broke, what do you really mean, solodriver ? I guess money means different things to different people, as do the terms rich and poor. I'm sure there are some people out there who are seeking only a person with substantial ass up. But everyone has a different view of what substantial is to and the word asset is also relative. There's no way in the world I'd marry a rich person who didn't share my world views or respect me. But to some people that wouldn't be important. There are a lot of us on this board who may have more money married than we would divorced. Of course there's really no telling what the future holds. But if we're still married, are we happy with more money? probably not, because we're still on this forum. What does that tell you? I will be poor financially, but rich in what I can share with someone. I work, I take pretty good care of myself, am adventurous, spontaneous and want to enjoy what life has to offer every day without limitations.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 21, 2018 20:35:42 GMT -5
In a "no fault" jurisdiction, if your spouse got $1,000,000 of the divisible assets, then it follows that you also got $1,000,000 of the divisible assets. That is to say there was $2,000,000 in divisible assets - and you each got half. That's the baseline in a "no fault" jurisdiction.
Then, of course there may be adjustments for child and/or spousal support and other adjustments taking in to account your respective earning capacitys and suchlike.In a no fault jurisdiction these things are applied by table/scale.
So you might end up with a figures looking like spouse A getting $1,200,000 and spouse B getting $ 800,000.
These claims that the "divorce cost ME $1,000,000" certainly sound very dramatic, they infer that one spouse got $1,000,000 and the other spouse got fucking nothing.
In that example above (after adjustments spouse A getting $1,200,000 and B getting $ 800,000) and it could be argued thus.... There was $2,000,000 in divisible assets. Both spouses were entitled to $1,000,000 each at the get go of proceedings. But financial support matters resulted in $200,000 more going to one of the spouses. So you could, perhaps, argue that the divorce "cost you $200,000" - thats 20% of your half - to meet child and spousal support committments ....which presumably as a responsible parent you would not begrudge paying in any event.
You could not possibly make a credible case that the divorce "cost you $2,000,000 - or even that it "cost you $1,000,000"
The facts in a "no fault" jurisdiction are that you end up, broadly, with your right whack of the joint assets. At the starting point thats 50% and 50%. After adjustments dependent on the finer detail in an individual case it might look like 33% and 67%, or 42% and 58%, or 70% and 30%. Or like in my deal 38% and 62%.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jul 21, 2018 23:04:23 GMT -5
True, baza, but when you start looking at also paying 20-30% of your gross income for the next 15 years in maintenance (depending on jurisdiction and length of marriage), even if you got to keep $1M, there won’t be much of it left in the big picture. It can mathematically be the same as losing everything and walking away - trying to rebuild a retirement with that kind of an impact late in the game is nearly impossible. And factoring the odds that a future mate will have zero retirement, you still need enough for two people. There comes a point where the financial side of divorcing has an extremely material effect on the quality of the rest of one’s life; that has to be weighed against the quality of life if one stays. It’s a serious reality check, and for someone who’s lived lean their whole life to plan responsibly, it’s not something easy to walk away from. Everyone’s situation is different, but this particular issue stings a lot for me.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 22, 2018 0:05:53 GMT -5
Adding to Sister deleted 's point. There are TWO spouses who could call time on a marriage. And, if it was such a sweet deal (of getting more than their rightful whack out of the divisible assets) then the refuser - given that they are prone to act in their own self interests in many other ways - would likely think nothing of pre-emptively offloading you, if it were in their own interests to do so. One possible answer as to why they don't, is that it ain't such a sweet deal for your spouse as you might think....and in a 'no fault' jurisdiction that's true. In a 'no fault' jurisdiction things are pretty equitable - but not perfect of course. But, the Brother DryCreek viewpoint - staying to still have access to the full divisible assets rather than splitting and only having access to your right whack of the divisible assets - is a perfectly legitimate position to take. Personally, in an ILIASM context, I can't see this delivering much in the way of happiness...but here we are talking about matters of finance, not happiness.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jul 22, 2018 0:14:25 GMT -5
Why would you expect your future mate to have 0 retirement? ;-) I never discount getting lucky. I’m talking stats, not what I’d strive for. The odds say it would be rare. The average US household has a negative net worth and retirement accounts average something like $10K for folks over 50. Living lean and saving hasn’t been the American culture for about 60 years.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Jul 22, 2018 0:19:45 GMT -5
I will be poor financially, but rich in what I can share with someone. I work, I take pretty good care of myself, am adventurous, spontaneous and want to enjoy what life has to offer every day without limitations. Ugh, bitten in the arse again by replying before progressing further in the conversation thread. Yeah, how you described your definition of poor and broke sounds like a good situation to me. I'm re-building too. I would feel lucky if I were to find someone to rebuild with. The right companion would be worth more than any money to me. I guess what I'm dealing with now is looking at my future: alone and unhappy or alone and hopeful? I lean towards the "alone and hopeful" because at least I have a chance to find someone who I can share joy, happiness and sexuality with as opposed to "alone and unhappy" married which means NO chance of having those things I so desperately seeking, unless an AP would come into my life.
I won't be broke in a divorce but it may cost me a huge chunk of my retirement and having a large amount of debt accumulated in the marriage, which would probably be divided equally in a divorce, with the additional fees from that, means there will be very little money left to spend on anything extra. Any money that I make working and what little retirement I receive will be gone as soon as it hits the bank, so it will make it very difficult to meet and start a relationship if I can't even afford to take her out to dinner, a nice date or even to Starbuck's, let alone a nice romantic place if we were to hit it off.
My choices are to be somewhat financially stable staying married with the incomes that we have coming in or be divorced, spending all my money paying the bills with nothing extra left at all and alone because I can't provide a nice date to possibly meet someone.
That thought is really depressing me right now.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jul 22, 2018 0:27:56 GMT -5
But, the Brother DryCreek viewpoint - staying to still have access to the full divisible assets rather than splitting and only having access to your right whack of the divisible assets - is a perfectly legitimate position to take. Personally, in an ILIASM context, I can't see this delivering much in the way of happiness...but here we are talking about matters of finance, not happiness. I feel like I’m being materialistic and greedy anytime the topic comes up, but there’s a spectrum to be considered on both sides of the decision... solving one happiness problem creates another. Is the cure worse than the ailment? So many factors... But yeah, the other spouse could just as easily pull the trigger. The result is the same, but there’s no decision to weigh there.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 22, 2018 0:28:42 GMT -5
True, baza , but when you start looking at also paying 20-30% of your gross income for the next 15 years in maintenance (depending on jurisdiction and length of marriage), even if you got to keep $1M, there won’t be much of it left in the big picture. It can mathematically be the same as losing everything and walking away - trying to rebuild a retirement with that kind of an impact late in the game is nearly impossible. And factoring the odds that a future mate will have zero retirement, you still need enough for two people. There comes a point where the financial side of divorcing has an extremely material effect on the quality of the rest of one’s life; that has to be weighed against the quality of life if one stays. It’s a serious reality check, and for someone who’s lived lean their whole life to plan responsibly, it’s not something easy to walk away from. Everyone’s situation is different, but this particular issue stings a lot for me. Are those figures a reasonable approximate example of your situation Brother DryCreek ? I can tell you that they are pretty similar to mine (tho mine were a bit worse) in 2009 when I left. 5 years on from that - 2014 - I had repaired the financial damage, and then some, and was in a position to semi-retire, and by 2016 to fully retire (tho I didn't), I did that earlier this year. Your age group of 46 to 50 would give you - potentially - another 15 to 19 years to re- build your individual financial situation as a divorcee. A counselling suggestion might be in order here. A financial counsellor. That 15 to 19 years is a helluva window of opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Jul 22, 2018 1:19:40 GMT -5
I guess what I'm dealing with now is looking at my future: alone and unhappy or alone and hopeful? I lean towards the "alone and hopeful" because at least I have a chance to find someone who I can share joy, happiness and sexuality with as opposed to "alone and unhappy" married which means NO chance of having those things I so desperately seeking, unless an AP would come into my life.
I won't be broke in a divorce but it may cost me a huge chunk of my retirement and having a large amount of debt accumulated in the marriage, which would probably be divided equally in a divorce, with the additional fees from that, means there will be very little money left to spend on anything extra. Any money that I make working and what little retirement I receive will be gone as soon as it hits the bank, so it will make it very difficult to meet and start a relationship if I can't even afford to take her out to dinner, a nice date or even to Starbuck's, let alone a nice romantic place if we were to hit it off.
My choices are to be somewhat financially stable staying married with the incomes that we have coming in or be divorced, spending all my money paying the bills with nothing extra left at all and alone because I can't provide a nice date to possibly meet someone.
That thought is really depressing me right now.
I'm team alone and hopeful. I made my decision knowing their were no guarantees either way, but that I couldn't get any unhappier than I was. At least by divorcing, I regained hope. It's not easy, some days I don't even want to deal with meeting anyone and risking getting hurt and think I probably will be alone for life. Even on those days, for me it was worth it; my life needed to change and it wasn't going to happen while still married. It was good enough to keep me for a long time, ultimately, when I hated every aspect of my life is when I couldn't tolerate putting up with the marriage any more. And staying did lasting damage to me, staying wasn't penalty free. Lots of great dates are possible without spending money or much money, especially in the summer when you can be outside. I think these days most women would expect to pay their own way, so she may even treat you to a nice dinner or whatever. For the right person, it wouldn't matter. Conversely, for the wrong person, it doesn't matter how much money he may have or what nice dinners he might buy, money can't buy attraction and compatibility. If the debt is that crushing it seems it may be a bit oppressive even in the marriage? Thanks for the input. I'm definitely trying to put together my exit plan but the financial piece is what is really getting me down about it. It's very depressing and oppressive and it takes all income we currently both bring in to keep it going. I've tried to put my exit plan on a 6-12 month timeline in order to try and get some of those paid down, but then if I initiate divorce action, I'm just going to get sucked back in the financial rabbit hole.
When I ponder on it, I feel depressed and hopeless and I'm trying to overcome that so I don't lose the momentum to get out of this marriage.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Jul 22, 2018 2:22:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. I'm definitely trying to put together my exit plan but the financial piece is what is really getting me down about it. It's very depressing and oppressive and it takes all income we currently both bring in to keep it going. I've tried to put my exit plan on a 6-12 month timeline in order to try and get some of those paid down, but then if I initiate divorce action, I'm just going to get sucked back in the financial rabbit hole.
When I ponder on it, I feel depressed and hopeless and I'm trying to overcome that so I don't lose the momentum to get out of this marriage.
It does sound rather daunting from what you say. Have you sought out a professional debt counselor? I don't have any experience myself with tackling an oppressive amount of debt, so all I can offer is moral support. Your moral support is deeply appreciated and your idea just made me think about something that may give me some hope as I struggle with this. Maybe all hope isn't lost.
Thank you helenisbored. You've helped me able to at least try to sleep tonight with some hope for the future.
Thank you for being here.
|
|