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Post by choosinghappy on May 2, 2018 14:15:27 GMT -5
Admittedly, I am interested in this question since I have chosen to outsource so I asked it during my first initial consult with a divorce attorney.
Answer: For me, in my no-fault, equitable division divorce state, it would be unlikely to have an impact financially speaking. My refuser spouse would need to choose to file saying I am at fault due to adultery and then he would have to prove:
1.) that adultery occurred,
2.) that it was the cause of the breakdown of our marriage, AND
3.) that it had a negative financial impact on the overall marital estate. (As in: thousands of dollars given to my lover in gifts, paying for an apartment, etc.)
If all these conditions are met, then an unequitable division of assets MAY be considered but even that is not a given.
What it COULD impact is how amicable the whole process is because if my H were to find out it could piss him off and he could choose to fight certain things that he otherwise may have been more willing to concede on.
**I feel it necessary to give the disclaimer that that was the answer given to ME, based on how the courts operate in MY jurisdiction. Might not be the case for everyone but it was certainly a bit of a relief to hear.**
I've read many comments on here about the potential negatives of outsourcing and I don't necessarily disagree but for ME, it's what has saved my sanity. I'm willing to take this risk.
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Post by bballgirl on May 2, 2018 14:45:25 GMT -5
I'm in your camp in regards to the outsourcing.
I will say during the divorce, for me it was four months, I only saw fwb once or twice. I felt like I'm so close to the end I didn't want to risk looking like the bad guy, so be careful, but in all honesty if I were ever caught I had zero guilt and I would have simply said," well what do you expect most human beings need sex". I swear at the end I felt like I was in a sexless affair lol
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 14:50:21 GMT -5
I just looked up the laws in NJ on this, and adultery is grounds for a fault divorce, and it could impact the amount to be paid for alimony.
A spouse who refuses sex is not considered a reason for a fault divorce. Unless that is what is meant by this:
."Willful and continued desertion for the term of 12 or more months, which may be established by satisfactory proof that the parties have ceased to cohabit as man and wife;"
Doesn't sound likely though.
I can't believe I'm actually researching this.
(Yes, I know, I would need to actually speak to a lawyer, but I'm not close to ready yet. )
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Post by baza on May 2, 2018 17:52:38 GMT -5
In my jurisdiction, the divorce laws are Federal and apply to the whole country, and it's a "no fault" deal.
As far as I am aware, in the USA (where most of the membership is I'd imagine) the divorce laws vary from state to state.
So check it out with a lawyer in YOUR jurisdiction, And don't rely on the esteemed law firm of "Facebook, Family & Friends Inc"
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Post by h on May 3, 2018 7:19:35 GMT -5
I just looked up the laws in NJ on this, and adultery is grounds for a fault divorce, and it could impact the amount to be paid for alimony. A spouse who refuses sex is not considered a reason for a fault divorce. Unless that is what is meant by this: ."Willful and continued desertion for the term of 12 or more months, which may be established by satisfactory proof that the parties have ceased to cohabit as man and wife;" Doesn't sound likely though. I can't believe I'm actually researching this. (Yes, I know, I would need to actually speak to a lawyer, but I'm not close to ready yet. ) The way it reads to me, it looks like you would need to live separately for a year. Maybe it could be interpreted to include sleeping in separate bedrooms, but proving that you have been in separate rooms for a year could be difficult. Separate addresses would be easier to clearly prove but that would require the refuser to leave the house willingly in order to be at fault so still unlikely. |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 3, 2018 7:51:09 GMT -5
@loneywifey
Your state sounds similar to mine. The lawyer said the sbtx finding out about being involved with 3rd parties often take a simple divorce and make it a pissing match.
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Post by baza on May 5, 2018 20:42:36 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister choosinghappy - "I've read many comments on here about the potential negatives of outsourcing and I don't necessarily disagree but for ME, it's what has saved my sanity. I'm willing to take this risk." What you are essentially saying here is that you are prepared to put the marriage on the line and you are prepared to walk away from it if that proves necessary. Further, that you are in the processes of preparing to walk away from it, should it prove necessary, be that necessity getting caught cheating or be it because it is in your longer term best interest as the marriage is terminally fucked. But most importantly, you are saying that you have taken ownership of your choices and the potential consequences of them. So I reckon that all puts you in a great position of empowerment...albeit, not a very comfortable position. |
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Post by choosinghappy on May 5, 2018 21:11:11 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister choosinghappy - "I've read many comments on here about the potential negatives of outsourcing and I don't necessarily disagree but for ME, it's what has saved my sanity. I'm willing to take this risk." What you are essentially saying here is that you are prepared to put the marriage on the line and you are prepared to walk away from it if that proves necessary. Further, that you are in the processes of preparing to walk away from it, should it prove necessary, be that necessity getting caught cheating or be it because it is in your longer term best interest as the marriage is terminally fucked. But most importantly, you are saying that you have taken ownership of your choices and the potential consequences of them. So I reckon that all puts you in a great position of empowerment...albeit, not a very comfortable position. That is all correct baza. And I won’t say I am extremely UNcomfortable, as I know that even if things were to blow up I will be okay walking away. It would just be a bit ahead of my timeline and likely, more contentious than it otherwise would have been. So I do hope my outsourcing will not be discovered for both those reasons and because I do not want to hurt my H any more than is necessary, but the trade-off is SO worth it to me. I need this for me. And if it comes down to it, that is what I will tell H. |
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Post by javba on Jul 1, 2018 16:29:54 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister choosinghappy - "I've read many comments on here about the potential negatives of outsourcing and I don't necessarily disagree but for ME, it's what has saved my sanity. I'm willing to take this risk." What you are essentially saying here is that you are prepared to put the marriage on the line and you are prepared to walk away from it if that proves necessary. Further, that you are in the processes of preparing to walk away from it, should it prove necessary, be that necessity getting caught cheating or be it because it is in your longer term best interest as the marriage is terminally fucked. But most importantly, you are saying that you have taken ownership of your choices and the potential consequences of them. So I reckon that all puts you in a great position of empowerment...albeit, not a very comfortable position. That is all correct baza. And I won’t say I am extremely UNcomfortable, as I know that even if things were to blow up I will be okay walking away. It would just be a bit ahead of my timeline and likely, more contentious than it otherwise would have been. So I do hope my outsourcing will not be discovered for both those reasons and because I do not want to hurt my H any more than is necessary, but the trade-off is SO worth it to me. I need this for me. And if it comes down to it, that is what I will tell H. 👍🏽 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 17:02:15 GMT -5
I just looked up the laws in NJ on this, and adultery is grounds for a fault divorce, and it could impact the amount to be paid for alimony. A spouse who refuses sex is not considered a reason for a fault divorce. Unless that is what is meant by this: ."Willful and continued desertion for the term of 12 or more months, which may be established by satisfactory proof that the parties have ceased to cohabit as man and wife;" Doesn't sound likely though. I can't believe I'm actually researching this. (Yes, I know, I would need to actually speak to a lawyer, but I'm not close to ready yet. ) I actually did speak to a lawyer and she told me that in NJ adultery does not impact the divorce at all (or it could in the limited sense that choosinghappy mentioned if I would have spent thousands on my lovers.) So much for Internet research. (And, yes, it was a relief to hear.) |
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Post by dallasgia on Jul 1, 2018 22:44:46 GMT -5
I feel like a simpleton here as I see these posts about outsourcing. I’ve been pushed to that decision in my sm. But, how does this happen - I’m not even kidding. Married for 21 years, I have only one single friend (and he would oblige he’s made clear) but he’s always been single and has what I consider to be way to many risk factors for harboring a std. a married guy in a similar sm situation would be safer but how does one go about teasing these delicate tidbits out ones married couple friends? After 21 years of marriage and 5 yrs sm - I’m doomed to never express myself in that way again.
How did you lonelywifey go about procuring your outsource?
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Post by baza on Jul 2, 2018 0:10:51 GMT -5
On the back of what Sister deleted has put up, Brother @shynjdude put up an exhaustive list of hints a while back - worth reading. From my perspective, I believe that if you are going to go down this highly adventurous path, then you need to be prepped just like you were getting divorced. Mainly, because that's the trajectory you are on anyway, so you might as well be prepared for it in advance, so you don't get blindsided *when* you get caught. And - without meaning any disrespect - you (like most members here) probably lack the skill set and mindset required to successfully conduct a clandestine operation. Being prepared for a hard landing gives you one less thing to worry about. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 2, 2018 6:30:01 GMT -5
“but he’s always been single and has what I consider to be way to many risk factors for harboring a std. a married guy in a similar sm situation would be safer but how does one go about teasing these delicate tidbits out ones married couple friends? ”
Given the lethality of STDs, I believe in requiring any new partners to be std tested. I also believe in using condoms unless one knows the person extremely well and is monogamous. You can’t look at someone and know whether they have an std. . You can’t determine risk from their marital status. Lots of married people have risky sex on the side...
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Post by flyingsolo on Jul 3, 2018 14:37:27 GMT -5
Just happened to meet with an attorney yesterday here in my state in the Midwest just to get an idea of what a divorce might look like. Mine would be brutal in terms of cost. With regard to fault, my attorney indicated that my state is a no fault state, so no reason needs to be given for the cause of the divorce (and she indicated that most good attorneys won't put the reason into the divorce record to protect the parties unless someone is trying to make a point). The impact an affair can have here in my state is to cause the party having the affair to have to reimburse assets to the marital estate that were spent on the affair. (i.e. if you are taking your AP on a vacation, buying them gifts, etc., you may have to reimburse these funds and/or your share of the divorce award may be reduced by the amounts that you spent going outside the marriage). I guess the message is that you if are going to have an AP, find one that doesn't have expensive taste or has their own resources. 
I was also told that here in my state, if you choose to go the divorce route, continue to live the life you were living before the divorce. Don't spend extravagantly, don't transfer assets out of the marital estate, don't go crazy, etc. |
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