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Post by h on Oct 16, 2017 5:10:49 GMT -5
I am really new to this board and to coming clean about my marriage in general. I don't know anyone else IRL that has this problem. I have literally had my eyes open about the likelihood of this changing from this board. Those options suck! I appreciate the flowchart though. My self work has been critical to get me here. Jen, people you know have this problem, and they also feel alone. I wish there had been a resource like this in 1988, and I would have been spared decades of misery. I wish I had started looking for this in 2008. |
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Oct 16, 2017 9:12:45 GMT -5
I am really new to this board and to coming clean about my marriage in general. I don't know anyone else IRL that has this problem. I have literally had my eyes open about the likelihood of this changing from this board. Those options suck! I appreciate the flowchart though. My self work has been critical to get me here. Everyone I know in real life that is also in a sexless marriage took steps to hide it from everyone. Most people are embarrassed to discuss it with others in person. I have found that if you bait them they are actually pretty open to discussing the situation a bit. I now know I have seven friends that are also in sexless marriages, and I suspect others. It's pretty sad. |
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Post by casual777 on Oct 23, 2018 13:38:34 GMT -5
I have done a lot of reading on the topic of ‘sorting out your own shit’ and most positive psychology research lists the same few interventions as being worthwhile doing in the absence of going to therapy formally. They almost always involve journals and lists
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Post by shamwow on Oct 23, 2018 14:12:49 GMT -5
If you have been moved to google "sexless marriage" and ended up here, then your marriage is in extreme - probably terminal - trouble and some very difficult choices confront you. You might get lucky - though the anecdotal evidence in this group does not point to this outcome as being very likely. You might get a bit of tawdry short term re-set sex - that is a reasonably common outcome. You might not get any meaningful response at all - that's pretty common. I am really new to this board and to coming clean about my marriage in general. I don't know anyone else IRL that has this problem. I have literally had my eyes open about the likelihood of this changing from this board. Those options suck! I appreciate the flowchart though. My self work has been critical to get me here. How many of your friends know you are in a sexless marriage. I didn't know anyone until I filed for divorce. Then I was amazed at how many of us there were in just my immediate circle. Edit: lol didn't realize why this thread was from last year. @workingonit you should re read these and see how far you've come. |
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Post by casual777 on Dec 12, 2020 18:37:42 GMT -5
The good thing about doing all the work on managing my mood , my health and my outlook is that if she is unreasonable or withholds sex for say a month I simply refuse to give her a free pass . Withholding isn’t because I am crap to be with , I am unambitious , or I don’t help around the house . It’s her not me, and I am free to pursue another encounter that ll stop me feeling undesired until she is ready to desire me again
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Post by jerri on Dec 13, 2020 3:50:32 GMT -5
The good thing about doing all the work on managing my mood , my health and my outlook is that if she is unreasonable or withholds sex for say a month I simply refuse to give her a free pass . Withholding isn’t because I am crap to be with , I am unambitious , or I don’t help around the house . It’s her not me, and I am free to pursue another encounter that ll stop me feeling undesired until she is ready to desire me again How do you handle that decision? What do you do to take care of yourself?😃 |
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Post by deadzone75 on Dec 17, 2020 23:41:38 GMT -5
There might be no need to "work on your own stuff". I'm sure that's what a refuser might want you to believe, though, that it's you and not them...and something for you to sort out on your own time. In some situations, this list could be shortened by removing 2 and 3.
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Post by isthisit on Dec 18, 2020 17:47:26 GMT -5
There might be no need to "work on your own stuff". I'm sure that's what a refuser might want you to believe, though, that it's you and not them...and something for you to sort out on your own time. In some situations, this list could be shortened by removing 2 and 3. “Work on your own stuff” for me was not about ‘How can I be a better husband’ or ‘how can I serve her better.’ FUCK NO! The opposite. It was about being a better SELF to myself and learning how I was no longer going to be OWNED by that heartless @&7x/-). So I would suggest, if applicable, keep #2 with that in mind and skip #3. I fell deeply into this trap too. If only I could be a little more perfect surely I would get the guy I married back? Completely forgetting that I had a duty of care to myself. Now I am wiser #2&3 doesn’t get on the list. It took me far too long to learn the lesson but by goodness, I’ve learned it good now. Too bad about that lost decade. |
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Post by casual777 on Oct 11, 2021 1:14:06 GMT -5
I accepted that as a result of work and parenting pressures and fairly regular sex refusal I had to work on my mood . I had become a grump .
So I did the yoga , gratitude , sport, reading self help stuff and it did help. I am much more pleasant to be around . The sex in the marriage ? Not so much . We will barely make it to double figures this year . So I outsource very regularly . Turns out being a cheerful fit individual helps when seeking extra marital sex
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 12, 2021 13:01:52 GMT -5
Was thinking of how important it is to find a guide of working through temporary, recurrent or chronic sexlessnes . This is what would suggest as a starter for debate 1. Discuss with your partner 2. If no improvement , work on your own stuff. Address your mood and anxiety, contribute to creating a pleasant environment at home, make a gratitude list daily..etc 3. Then re attempt to create opportunities and re-discuss 4. If no improvement decide if sex is a deal breaker 5. If it is, decide when you ll leave 6. If you're staying for the kids, or for financial reasons , or other reasons, for now , decide if you ll outsource 7. Don't keep torturing yourself . You have considered your options and came up with the best position in a difficult situation No change will happen until a costly consequence is attached to the behavior - until the cost of doing something exceeds the cost of not doing something. Most people dilly dally about discussing it (which isn't wrong), making a vague promise of "or else a consequence will likely happen". That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a clear and present danger of significant size and intensity to the relationship that vastly exceeds the slow burn of extended celibacy and gaslighting. 1. Discuss it. 2. Find out how a divorce or separation would work. Find out what the options are (therapeutic separation vs separation for divorce). Find out about the financial implications. Get real about it so that you are ready and willing. 3. Prepare for single life by working on yourself. Be your single self. Make friends, do the activities you want, dress up, get fit. 4. If/when the months have passed and the partner has not taken things seriously, move out of the bedroom so you can get some proper sleep. 5. Pitch your offer: opening the relationship and scheduling a date or separation - pick. If the latter, decide if it's to be a therapeutic separation and put parameters on that so that she/he can't run your clock down. People get serious when they find out about an affair, are aware of a partner's non-monogamy (an affair doesn't count until it's found out - and the finding out ruins the prospects of recovery), or when they know their partner is separating and there is a time crunch. "I'm leaving you - let's discuss how we wish to approach separation" is the scale of a consequence I'm talking about. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 14, 2021 4:48:09 GMT -5
No change will happen until a costly consequence is attached to the behavior - until the cost of doing something exceeds the cost of not doing something. Most people dilly dally about discussing it (which isn't wrong), making a vague promise of "or else a consequence will likely happen". That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a clear and present danger of significant size and intensity to the relationship that vastly exceeds the slow burn of extended celibacy and gaslighting. 1. Discuss it. 2. Find out how a divorce or separation would work. Find out what the options are (therapeutic separation vs separation for divorce). Find out about the financial implications. Get real about it so that you are ready and willing. 3. Prepare for single life by working on yourself. Be your single self. Make friends, do the activities you want, dress up, get fit. 4. If/when the months have passed and the partner has not taken things seriously, move out of the bedroom so you can get some proper sleep. 5. Pitch your offer: opening the relationship and scheduling a date or separation - pick. If the latter, decide if it's to be a therapeutic separation and put parameters on that so that she/he can't run your clock down. People get serious when they find out about an affair, are aware of a partner's non-monogamy (an affair doesn't count until it's found out - and the finding out ruins the prospects of recovery), or when they know their partner is separating and there is a time crunch. "I'm leaving you - let's discuss how we wish to approach separation" is the scale of a consequence I'm talking about. Really good. I like the specifics very much. Just two possible tweaks that are left to each refused spouse's consideration. Vague consequences don't threaten to "shred your cred" if you find yourself unable to actually go through with the chosen fallout. You can do whatever you wish that way and the refuser can hardly say it was unfair. You told the refuser there would be "serious/dire/unhappy consequences". Is it your fault if they underestimated the can of whoop-ass you had available? No, it'd just be part of their pattern of behavior; ignoring your needs. "Cost must outweigh status quo". That is so painfully true, but must we make it easier for them to weigh pros and cons and decide to roll the dice? This may make the refused feel obligated to have a second "Talk" with worse consequences. I'm a fan of having a single "Talk". Vague consequences go all the way up to divorce. If you stop short, you're no worse off if the refuser doesn't respond. You have the same options: tolerate, outsource, leave. The other tweak is the order of acting single and moving out of the bedroom. It may behoove some refused parties to move out first. The extra sleep will make you that much more capable of re-engineering a life for yourself that minimizes the refuser's role. The move out will be a supremely good warning shot. Why not take advantage of the possibility that this move alone will knock some sense into their heads? It also serves well if the refuser demonstrates no dismay or they even prefer it. This could enhance your resolve. Just be sure to brace for the impact of the indifference. Part of leaving will be the possibility that the refuser has a reaction that offends you. The move out may be a trigger for the refuser to file divorce too. Or threaten to if you don't reverse it. Explaining to kids why you sleep apart could be untenable to refusers that like to maintain appearances (but not enough to fix their sex aversion or allow outsourcing). We've heard of refusers haughtily, unironically speak of refusing a "sham marriage" that separate bedrooms might convey, and accurately reflect. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 14, 2021 10:16:09 GMT -5
^Smart advice here.
One might wonder why the commitment to the sham marriage of sleeping celibately in the same bed while objecting (to the point of divorce) from separate bedrooms. In these cases, the sex averse person is playing a game of defer and delay. Anything that undeniably expresses the truth of the celibate union is going to be objected to.
Things like:
-separate beds
-*finding out* about an affair (and it's likely someone will find out sooner or later - just happened to a friend of mine)
-taking off your wedding ring
-going out on friday alone, rather than staying home and doing nothing
These kinds of behaviors make it difficult to ignore what's underlying them, and will be resisted or may trigger the imminent divorce, now, rather than later.
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 14, 2021 10:36:04 GMT -5
^Smart advice here. One might wonder why the commitment to the sham marriage of sleeping celibately in the same bed while objecting (to the point of divorce) from separate bedrooms. In these cases, the sex averse person is playing a game of defer and delay. Anything that undeniably expresses the truth of the celibate union is going to be objected to. Things like: -separate beds -*finding out* about an affair (and it's likely someone will find out sooner or later - just happened to a friend of mine) -taking off your wedding ring -going out on friday alone, rather than staying home and doing nothing These kinds of behaviors make it difficult to ignore what's underlying them, and will be resisted or may trigger the imminent divorce, now, rather than later. When I had finally had enough reset, refuse, reset, refuse repeat, I started distancing myself from my then W. I was determined to get out of the cycle of anxiety and dishonesty. I wasn't at all sure how it was going to fall out but just about anything had to be better than where I was at. So I took off the ring( took her a few days to notice ), but she said nothing, so she knew the jig was up. Since she would not go along willingly with me out sourcing, she would have to go along unwillingly. She decided she preferred a divorce. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 14, 2021 13:29:45 GMT -5
^Smart advice here. One might wonder why the commitment to the sham marriage of sleeping celibately in the same bed while objecting (to the point of divorce) from separate bedrooms. In these cases, the sex averse person is playing a game of defer and delay. Anything that undeniably expresses the truth of the celibate union is going to be objected to. Things like: -separate beds -*finding out* about an affair (and it's likely someone will find out sooner or later - just happened to a friend of mine) -taking off your wedding ring -going out on friday alone, rather than staying home and doing nothing These kinds of behaviors make it difficult to ignore what's underlying them, and will be resisted or may trigger the imminent divorce, now, rather than later. When I had finally had enough reset, refuse, reset, refuse repeat, I started distancing myself from my then W. I was determined to get out of the cycle of anxiety and dishonesty. I wasn't at all sure how it was going to fall out but just about anything had to be better than where I was at. So I took off the ring( took her a few days to notice ), but she said nothing, so she knew the jig was up. Since she would not go along willingly with me out sourcing, she would have to go along unwillingly. She decided she preferred a divorce. I think a lot of people new to the forum and this advice misunderstand it as urging divorce. The advice - mine anyway - is about getting to a mutual understanding of the truth of your relationship and acknowledging what it is. From that truth, you can both decide what to do, or just you. I think divorce is a common result of the truth, but it's not that the truth causes the divorce. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 14, 2021 13:41:18 GMT -5
When I had finally had enough reset, refuse, reset, refuse repeat, I started distancing myself from my then W. I was determined to get out of the cycle of anxiety and dishonesty. I wasn't at all sure how it was going to fall out but just about anything had to be better than where I was at. So I took off the ring( took her a few days to notice ), but she said nothing, so she knew the jig was up. Since she would not go along willingly with me out sourcing, she would have to go along unwillingly. She decided she preferred a divorce. I think a lot of people new to the forum and this advice misunderstand it as urging divorce. The advice - mine anyway - is about getting to a mutual understanding of the truth of your relationship and acknowledging what it is. From that truth, you can both decide what to do, or just you. I think divorce is a common result of the truth, but it's not that the truth causes the divorce. I concur. I was not angling for a divorce, just an end to the sexless and lack of intimacy part. My now X was a good room mate, a great house keeper, mostly fair with the division of labor and expenses, and very good at putting together vacations. (She was a terrible navigator and she would argue with the GPS) but I could work around that. I would have preferred to stay married if she would have gone along with a don't ask, don't tell approach to me outsourcing, but being an Alpha female, she could not countenance sharing her H with another woman. |
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