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Post by McRoomMate on Aug 15, 2017 3:46:37 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo , rough impression... if you told her you needed more sex, and she's giving more sex (passionless or run & gun as it may be), she may rightly believe that she's addressing your complaint. First, if she's only reacting to a perceived threat, it's questionable how sustainable it'll be. Second, if what you really need is intimacy, passion, emotional connection, etc. then you'd be right to adjust her expectation for both of your sakes. YES - It is not slam bam thank-you mam. We are not studs looking for heffers are we? Well not me at least. Oh for so long it was the INTIMACY - sex is an important part but not all of it. For the zillionth time - this forum should be called I live in an "Intimacy-Less" Marriage. Passion and emotion and just being together - I hate to say it but "Sweet Caroline" song comes to mind.
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Post by McRoomMate on Aug 15, 2017 3:49:30 GMT -5
Connectness - This old cheesy Neil Diamond Song seems to sum it up perfectly. I think it is what we are all looking for . Well I just speak for myself and say yes.
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Post by hopingforachange on Aug 15, 2017 7:23:13 GMT -5
So, before counseling the W and I had the frequency conversation. I hated putting a number down, because like your W, she would check the box.
Now is the time to up the ante or move the goal post and tell her, you need the intimate connected sex that is far more important them just getting off. My W flipped out over it, but she did not understand what I was describing as connected sex. After a few sessions in therapy, she finally got the connected feeling during sex. She had never had it before, ever. Now she understand what I was talking about when things were missing from when she was checking the boxes.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 15, 2017 8:40:40 GMT -5
"So, before counseling the W and I had the frequency conversation. I hated putting a number down, because like your W, she would check the box.Now is the time to up the ante or move the goal post and tell her, you need the intimate connected sex that is far more important them just getting off. My W flipped out over it, but she did not understand what I was describing as connected sex. After a few sessions in therapy, she finally got the connected feeling during sex. She had never had it before, ever. Now she understand what I was talking about when things were missing from when she was checking the boxes."
I wish you well, but I don't think one can explain or persuade a partner to have sexual love or passion for you. I believe having lust for someone and enjoying sexual intimacy with someone is beyond one's control. People can no more get themselves to enjoy sex with another person than they can eat with gusto a food they detest.
I loathe Lima beans. Serving them with sauce and love would not make them more palatable nor would learning about how nutritious they are or how much others enjoy them.
I believe that refuser who check the box and provide unconnected sex are doing the best they can and are doing it out of love or to maintain a relationship they value.
It's important to realize that if they love you, it may not have a sexual component. They may love you because you are a. Good provider, seemed like you'd be a good father, are someone their family and friends think is a good catch. But feeling lust for you may never have been what they felt. Indeed, there are many articles that tell people not to base marriage or romantic relationships on lust. Some people have been trained to view hot sex as a reason to avoid selecting a partner. They also may view sex as shameful and dirty so are only sexually attracted to people whom they don't think would be fit for marriage.
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Post by Apocrypha on Aug 15, 2017 9:35:10 GMT -5
Your comments struck a chord. She wanted sex alright. I can tell when she wants sex. But it wasnt driven by desire. It seemed more like checking boxes. In the final analysis, maybe its the same thing. And you are right. Knowing that this was just checking boxes motivated the guilt. What felt really strange was that when I tried to fully express myself sexually by talking to her during sex or doing little things here and there, it did not feel like she welcomed it. When you are at your most open and vulnerable - literally naked and a little out of control - it is an horrific thing to see that your partner is not welcoming that. You got the sex, but you did not get desire nor intimacy. At some point, the sexual encounters themselves get weaponized to make you hate them as much as she does.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 15, 2017 14:48:28 GMT -5
Apocrypha (cool screen name btw) I appreciate your comments. Are you sure you are not the manifestation of my subconscious. Certainly seems that way at times. Your comments struck a chord. She wanted sex alright. I can tell when she wants sex. But it wasnt driven by desire. It seemed more like checking boxes. In the final analysis, maybe its the same thing. And you are right. Knowing that this was just checking boxes motivated the guilt. What felt really strange was that when I tried to fully express myself sexually by talking to her during sex or doing little things here and there, it did not feel like she welcomed it. When you are at your most open and vulnerable - literally naked and a little out of control - it is an horrific thing to see that your partner is not welcoming that. You got the sex, but you did not get desire nor intimacy. At some point, the sexual encounters themselves get weaponized to make you hate them as much as she does.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 20, 2017 12:09:23 GMT -5
And today's episode children is called the struggle. Brought to you by our sponsors apathy, denial and disinterest.
So this happened the other day. Back to school shopping is done. Kids want to do a fashion show so they ask W and I to sit on the bed in master bedroom while they parade new outfits, yay. W is getting ready for bed and so the bed sheets are pulled back. Since Im still in my clothes, I pull the bedsheets back up to cover the bed on my forner side of the bed so I can sit on top of the duvet. Well W get annoyed my this and pulls the covers back and asks me why Im doing that. Cause Im still in my clothes and dont want to sit directly on the sheets. I dont even know why I bothered because I dont even sleep here (I sleep in a separate bedroom). Anyhow that minor mindfuck gets sorted out and the kids proceed with the fashion show. During one of the little breaks where they are changing outfits, W says to me, you are sick (head cold) I hope you dont plan on sleeping here tonight?
In my head the nuclear bomb just goes off. I stay calm and say to her, do you realize I havent slept in this bed for 4 months? Her:"well I dont want to be mean but I dont want to get your cold". Then her again:"I dont want to argue over silly things" I shake my head and go off to brush my teeth.
FML. I feel like I am invisible. The struggle is real kids.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2017 12:41:36 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo Gosh my heart is breaking for you. She is in avoidance, denial, and excuses mode. Try to focus on yourself and the kids, I know you do. Maybe outright telling her and drawing that line in the sand and saying "It bothered me that you were so weird about me sitting on your bed. I don't ever plan to have sex with you again, we are still married because we have kids, and this relationship will eventually expire". Maybe you can give your psyche some peace by being honest with her and taking back some power.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 20, 2017 13:03:16 GMT -5
"FML. I feel like I am invisible. The struggle is real kids."
To her, the problem is you are too visible. You can't make her want you. If you choose to stay married, separate bedrooms would allow you to live more authentically without continuing to try to gain her affection.
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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2017 19:32:43 GMT -5
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 20, 2017 19:41:50 GMT -5
Agree Baza. I know it can come across as whining or venting. Thats not the point. But humor me as I document these events because I tend to "forget" at critical times. There is a method to the madness!
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Post by merrygoround on Aug 21, 2017 23:47:35 GMT -5
And today's episode children is called the struggle. Brought to you by our sponsors apathy, denial and disinterest. So this happened the other day. Back to school shopping is done. Kids want to do a fashion show so they ask W and I to sit on the bed in master bedroom while they parade new outfits, yay. W is getting ready for bed and so the bed sheets are pulled back. Since Im still in my clothes, I pull the bedsheets back up to cover the bed on my forner side of the bed so I can sit on top of the duvet. Well W get annoyed my this and pulls the covers back and asks me why Im doing that. Cause Im still in my clothes and dont want to sit directly on the sheets. I dont even know why I bothered because I dont even sleep here (I sleep in a separate bedroom). Anyhow that minor mindfuck gets sorted out and the kids proceed with the fashion show. During one of the little breaks where they are changing outfits, W says to me, you are sick (head cold) I hope you dont plan on sleeping here tonight? In my head the nuclear bomb just goes off. I stay calm and say to her, do you realize I havent slept in this bed for 4 months? Her:"well I dont want to be mean but I dont want to get your cold". Then her again:"I dont want to argue over silly things" I shake my head and go off to brush my teeth. FML. I feel like I am invisible. The struggle is real kids. But it's not a minor mindfuck is it? Sure, in and of itself perhaps but another confirmation of her cruelty abd when you add them up, all these little mindfucks become one huge dysfunctional shitty mindfuck . So hurtful, especially when all you were doing was being considerate about the sheets ... But added to the mindfuck of her response to that - her outright cruelty on ramming home that you would not share the bed which you have clearly been out of for months because you have a cold. Why do they do this?? Why do they find it necessary??
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 22, 2017 11:45:08 GMT -5
No not another minor mindfuck. Im struggling to figure out how to be mindful of these transgressions without becoming resentful and angry. Im learning that she still loves me. Quite a bit actually. Just not in the ways I want her to love me. And Im sure she realizes the same. Still I want to be authentic in my need to feel desired and to desire in return. To become lost in lust with complete abandon. This is when I feel most alive. I fuck, therefore I am. If I dont fuck, than what am I? And today's episode children is called the struggle. Brought to you by our sponsors apathy, denial and disinterest. So this happened the other day. Back to school shopping is done. Kids want to do a fashion show so they ask W and I to sit on the bed in master bedroom while they parade new outfits, yay. W is getting ready for bed and so the bed sheets are pulled back. Since Im still in my clothes, I pull the bedsheets back up to cover the bed on my forner side of the bed so I can sit on top of the duvet. Well W get annoyed my this and pulls the covers back and asks me why Im doing that. Cause Im still in my clothes and dont want to sit directly on the sheets. I dont even know why I bothered because I dont even sleep here (I sleep in a separate bedroom). Anyhow that minor mindfuck gets sorted out and the kids proceed with the fashion show. During one of the little breaks where they are changing outfits, W says to me, you are sick (head cold) I hope you dont plan on sleeping here tonight? In my head the nuclear bomb just goes off. I stay calm and say to her, do you realize I havent slept in this bed for 4 months? Her:"well I dont want to be mean but I dont want to get your cold". Then her again:"I dont want to argue over silly things" I shake my head and go off to brush my teeth. FML. I feel like I am invisible. The struggle is real kids. But it's not a minor mindfuck is it? Sure, in and of itself perhaps but another confirmation of her cruelty abd when you add them up, all these little mindfucks become one huge dysfunctional shitty mindfuck . So hurtful, especially when all you were doing was being considerate about the sheets ... But added to the mindfuck of her response to that - her outright cruelty on ramming home that you would not share the bed which you have clearly been out of for months because you have a cold. Why do they do this?? Why do they find it necessary??
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 22, 2017 11:54:13 GMT -5
"But it's not a minor mindfuck is it? Sure, in and of itself perhaps but another confirmation of her cruelty abd when you add them up, all these little mindfucks become one huge dysfunctional shitty mindfuck . So hurtful, especially when all you were doing was being considerate about the sheets ... But added to the mindfuck of her response to that - her outright cruelty on ramming home that you would not share the bed which you have clearly been out of for months because you have a cold. Why do they do this?? Why do they find it necessary??"
Because the refused refuse to understand what refusers' actions are saying: They are incapable of and are not interested in providing their spouse with the kind of love the spouse wants. His wife is telling him loud and clear that she not only doesn't want to have sex with him, she doesn't want him to share a bedroom with her. He is a wallet and a co-parent in her eyes.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 24, 2017 19:21:21 GMT -5
Im happy (not) to report that Ive earned another notch on my mindfuckery stick this week. Just when you think it might be safe to put your guard down, the fireworks go off. At this rate, I may have a collection of mindfuckery notch sticks before its all said and done.
Another reminder today of my role as wallet and child minder, and how inadequate I do the job no less.
If anything, the sexlessness takes a backseat. I couldnt care less at this point. Libido is in the toilet.
And so it goes when you play another round in the game that you didnt even want to play to begin with.
Peace.
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