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Post by orangepeel on May 6, 2017 5:00:41 GMT -5
So yesterday evening my wife was being nice to me and said she loves me. Excellent. So I said if so, when could we start having sex again? She asked why I had to spoil the moment, so I said not having sex for 4 and a half years merited at least mentioning, if not discussion. She asked why I should spoil things and that the sex had become bad and we should let it come back naturally without forcing it (if you see what I mean). I asked how could we do that by not doing it. She said it had got mechanical as it were and that's why she started saying no. I said that's why I'd stopped initiating and that's why we haven't had sex for 4 and a half years. She asked why I should mention the elephant in the room as it would make things worse. I said what's worse than no sex? Minus sex? I told her I felt half married. She asked how I expected she felt? I said she should tell me.
In the course of those two minutes she tried to leave the room twice and did at that point. It was relatively amicable and we had a pleasant evening watching telly.
So was that the talk? And am I the refuser?
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Post by merrygoround on May 6, 2017 5:35:14 GMT -5
Not in my book, no - kind of half hearted on her part in that she wants to keep the status quo but still prefers you to go without. From your post, what I read that even mentioning the subject is difficult. It's been hard to get my OH to admit that it was not important to him. After 20 years. Why can't they just be honest? Excuse after excuse, really. Hope there was something good on the telly.
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Post by baza on May 6, 2017 5:51:06 GMT -5
In fact, it matters not a rat's arse whether you are the refuser or you are the refused. Applying labels to yourself - or your missus - has very little value. The marriage is dysfunctional, and you Brother orangepeel , appear to want to do something about it. So refused or refuser, you get my vote automatically. What are you actually prepared to do ?
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Post by hopingforachange on May 6, 2017 7:15:24 GMT -5
Sounds like she is trying to turn it around and deflect the blame back towards you. Aka, I am rubber and you're glue, what ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 6, 2017 8:48:19 GMT -5
So yesterday evening my wife was being nice to me and said she loves me. Excellent. So I said if so, when could we start having sex again? She asked why I had to spoil the moment, so I said not having sex for 4 and a half years merited at least mentioning, if not discussion. She asked why I should spoil things and that the sex had become bad and we should let it come back naturally without forcing it (if you see what I mean). I asked how could we do that by not doing it. She said it had got mechanical as it were and that's why she started saying no. I said that's why I'd stopped initiating and that's why we haven't had sex for 4 and a half years. She asked why I should mention the elephant in the room as it would make things worse. I said what's worse than no sex? Minus sex? I told her I felt half married. She asked how I expected she felt? I said she should tell me. In the course of those two minutes she tried to leave the room twice and did at that point. It was relatively amicable and we had a pleasant evening watching telly. So was that the talk? And am I the refuser? The experience sounds awful to me and after 4 ½ year of celibacy i would not be inclined to take these halfhearted excuses in any positive way. I think you have your answer as to how far she is willing to not go.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 8:51:38 GMT -5
I have a go to comment when this happen. Ask is sex so unimportant to you, you won't mind me getting it somewhere else. When she gets angry then you can say "so sex is an important component to marriage"
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 6, 2017 8:59:36 GMT -5
After several of these conversations over the years, i cane to realize that while my wife enjoyed the celibacy part of forced celibacy, what she really lived for was the fact that it is forced.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 6, 2017 9:20:14 GMT -5
I don't think it was the talk as I see "the talk". Generally the talk should be more straight forward with one or both parties stating their view about the current state of intimacy. Assuming at least one party is unhappy and is seeking to bring about a change in the status quo. You started down that road but didn't get very far. It should also include a forecast of what the future holds for the relationship if some action(s) are not forthcoming or if behaviors are not changed. It might include proposed methods of addressing the dysfunctional aspects that brought about the talk. Didn't see that here. So I would view this as a 1/2 talk. Are you the refuser. I don't think so since you are trying to restart the sex in the relationship. Restarting sex is not something a refuser wants to do.
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Post by bballgirl on May 6, 2017 10:27:16 GMT -5
You are not the refuser however you may eventually become a counter refuser. The fact that you still want sex with your wife makes you the refused.
As far as The Talk, you tried to have the talk but she displayed typical refuser avoidant behavior.
If you are still in love and attracted to your wife then don't make the mistake that I made. I never threatened with divorce to try to repair my marriage. Honestly I have no regrets because my ex and I were very incompatible and the decision to leave was right for me. I do look back though and wonder if I would have threatened him with the reality of his world changing while I was still attracted to him if there could not have been some sort of compromise.
Ultimately my reality is I don't want sex with someone that isn't into me and wants an intimate, affectionate, and healthy relationship with me.
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Post by orangepeel on May 6, 2017 11:19:14 GMT -5
As ever, I'm so grateful for the empathy and validation from you all. It genuinely keeps me going. It's powerful for a third party to call my marriage dysfunctional as that's the unspoken truth I've felt for years. Getting it out there helps so much.
Trouble is - and I'm being totally honest here (another massive luxury - honesty with other adults!) - my marriage is dysfunctional, but not a fucked up nightmare. So the answer to Brother Baz's question is nothing: I'll end up doing nothing.
Apart from wanking, obviously.
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Post by bballgirl on May 6, 2017 11:27:20 GMT -5
As ever, I'm so grateful for the empathy and validation from you all. It genuinely keeps me going. It's powerful for a third party to call my marriage dysfunctional as that's the unspoken truth I've felt for years. Getting it out there helps so much. Trouble is - and I'm being totally honest here (another massive luxury - honesty with other adults!) - my marriage is dysfunctional, but not a fucked up nightmare. So the answer to Brother Baz's question is nothing: I'll end up doing nothing. Apart from wanking, obviously. That's fair. However you don't have the marriage you want so why should she get the marriage that she wants? In terms of vacations, luxury gifts, quality time, etc I wouldn't give her any extra perks!
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 6, 2017 11:33:39 GMT -5
As ever, I'm so grateful for the empathy and validation from you all. It genuinely keeps me going. It's powerful for a third party to call my marriage dysfunctional as that's the unspoken truth I've felt for years. Getting it out there helps so much. Trouble is - and I'm being totally honest here (another massive luxury - honesty with other adults!) - my marriage is dysfunctional, but not a fucked up nightmare. So the answer to Brother Baz's question is nothing: I'll end up doing nothing. Apart from wanking, obviously. That's fair. However you don't have the marriage you want so why should she get the marriage that she wants? In terms of vacations, luxury gifts, quality time, etc I wouldn't give her any extra perks! Excellent point. I for one have been good at rewarding my abuse.
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Post by wom360 on May 6, 2017 12:11:03 GMT -5
That's fair. However you don't have the marriage you want so why should she get the marriage that she wants? In terms of vacations, luxury gifts, quality time, etc I wouldn't give her any extra perks! Excellent point. I for one have been good at rewarding my abuse. You've trained her well.
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Post by bballgirl on May 6, 2017 12:18:32 GMT -5
Excellent point. I for one have been good at rewarding my abuse. You've trained her well. It's true a lot of us here are probably guilty of enabling our refusers. However there's nothing wrong with changing ones mind about what we want for ourselves. Me, I want sex! I was stuck for a few years at the end and I no longer enabled his abuse. I became a counter refuser, he just didn't know it, the irony of a dysfunctional, dishonest marriage. There was a shift in power and he could tell he was losing control over me. Everyone should live an authentic life as best they can.
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Post by bballgirl on May 6, 2017 12:20:10 GMT -5
That's fair. However you don't have the marriage you want so why should she get the marriage that she wants? In terms of vacations, luxury gifts, quality time, etc I wouldn't give her any extra perks! Excellent point. I for one have been good at rewarding my abuse. At some point their gig is up! My ex had a great ride at my expense for 2 decades, all sexless.
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