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Post by lyn on May 3, 2017 21:36:26 GMT -5
l. DISCLAIMER- There is always the possibility that your W could wake up and realize that she loves you so much that the thought of losing you is worse than trying. Some refusers have actually changed. [ Who? When? What? I just don't see a permanent, authentic, change happening. I don't think it's possible for one to actually change their core beliefs - about sex, racism, homophobia, whatever. flashjohn not trying to be argumentative, but, have you actually witnessed a real, permanent change in someone's sexual proclivities? Yes, I know that hormone shifting might make a physical-reactive change (for a period of time), but, can a person that cares nothing about sex turn into one that DESIRES sex? A spouse concerned about being "left" will probably perk things up and "act" like they want sex in order to maintain their status quo, but do they really?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 22:01:50 GMT -5
[ Who? When? What? I just don't see a permanent, authentic, change happening. I don't think it's possible for one to actually change their core beliefs - about sex, racism, homophobia, whatever. flashjohn not trying to be argumentative, but, have you actually witnessed a real, permanent change in someone's sexual proclivities? Yes, I know that hormone shifting might make a physical-reactive change (for a period of time), but, can a person that cares nothing about sex turn into one that DESIRES sex? A spouse concerned about being "left" will probably perk things up and "act" like they want sex in order to maintain their status quo, but do they really? No I have not, but I am trying not to be too negative. Personally, I don't think a refuser will change, but I don't want to discourage him too much.
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Post by lyn on May 3, 2017 22:04:23 GMT -5
No I have not, but I am trying not to be too negative. Personally, I don't think a refuser will change, but I don't want to discourage him too much. Ahh bummer - I thought maybe you had discovered the Holy Grail of SM's. Lol
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appleaday
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Age Range: 36-40
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Post by appleaday on May 3, 2017 22:10:47 GMT -5
[ Who? When? What? I just don't see a permanent, authentic, change happening. I don't think it's possible for one to actually change their core beliefs - about sex, racism, homophobia, whatever. flashjohn not trying to be argumentative, but, have you actually witnessed a real, permanent change in someone's sexual proclivities? Yes, I know that hormone shifting might make a physical-reactive change (for a period of time), but, can a person that cares nothing about sex turn into one that DESIRES sex? A spouse concerned about being "left" will probably perk things up and "act" like they want sex in order to maintain their status quo, but do they really? I have. Me. In a past life I was a refuser, not that I knew what that was at the time. I avoided it with my then fiancé (we broke up, not my current spouse). I remember thinking sex was a curse to torture women and that no self respecting woman would want it. I recognized that sex was important to a relationship but I didn't understand why and wished it wasnt. I grew and expanded my thinking. In that relationship I made a full turn around and tried to embrace sex and save the relationship. It was too late and he became the refuser. The relationship had a lot of other issues too so I ended it eventually. So yes, people can change such core things about themselves. The irony of now being in a SM is not lost on me. Looks like I got my wish for a sexless relationship 15 years too late lol.
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Post by lyn on May 3, 2017 22:17:23 GMT -5
I have. Me. In a past life I was a refuser, not that I knew what that was at the time. I avoided it with my then fiancé (we broke up, not my current spouse). I remember thinking sex was a curse to torture women and that no self respecting woman would want it. I recognized that sex was important to a relationship but I didn't understand why and wished it wasnt. I grew and expanded my thinking. In that relationship I made a full turn around and tried to embrace sex and save the relationship. It was too late and he became the refuser. The relationship had a lot of other issues too so I ended it eventually. So yes, people can change such core things about themselves. The irony of now being in a SM is not lost on me. Looks like I got my wish for a sexless relationship 15 years too late lol. Omg! This is an incredible story of self-awareness that we just don't see. Maybe the world isn't flat, Tupac isn't dead. Lol I'm sorrry - I'm not intending to diminish anything you're saying. Truly incredible that you recognized this in that relationship. I'm sorry that you're where you're at today, but, at least you know that this isn't necessarily "it". A two-party, sex-full, monogamous relationship IS possible. Lovely personal anecdote!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 22:32:37 GMT -5
H, It's time to move to another bedroom. Don't continue playing the charade. Everything is not okay. Stop meeting your wife's needs. Stop the perfunctory "I love you" and the hugs and pecks on the cheeks. Go to work and leave without saying good-bye. Don't do it out of anger but do it to protect yourself emotionally. If your wife says something, then tell her you did not get married to have a roommate. If she wants a roommate, then you'll be one. You may be surprised how your wife starts to act. You grow some balls and she'll start to respect you more. The hypocrisy will eat you up. That's what killing you right now. You're playing along and feeling miserable about the marriage. Careful here. I have not moved to another bedroom, but I stopped all of those other pretenses a long time ago. I don't even wear my wedding ring anymore (that's actually a longer story - maybe later). No reaction; Nothing... Occasionally, when she is angry and itching to fight she will throw it out there that "I don't make her feel wanted" or she feels "unattractive". However, most of the time she is content to stay in her part of the house and me in mine. So, in this respect it was a backfire, inasmuch as it did not result in a desired change of attitude or behavior. I should point out it's not about forcing his wife to change. It's about reclaiming your selfhood. No longer acting like nothing is wrong with the relationship. If you allow status quo to continue, there will never be a change. If H's. wife respects him, it does not mean that she'll give him sex. H. will have respect for himself because he is no longer a willing participant in a crummy marriage. We first have to acknowledge a problem before we can fix it.
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Post by csl on May 3, 2017 23:53:30 GMT -5
[ Who? When? What? I just don't see a permanent, authentic, change happening. I don't think it's possible for one to actually change their core beliefs - about sex, racism, homophobia, whatever. flashjohn not trying to be argumentative, but, have you actually witnessed a real, permanent change in someone's sexual proclivities? Yes, I know that hormone shifting might make a physical-reactive change (for a period of time), but, can a person that cares nothing about sex turn into one that DESIRES sex? A spouse concerned about being "left" will probably perk things up and "act" like they want sex in order to maintain their status quo, but do they really? Do y'all think I just come here to lie to get my jollies? A while back I was asked if I knew of any refuser who had changed and I proceeded to start enumerating ones I could recall off the top of my head. On my blog page, the bottom of the sidebar are several links, and one of those bloggers is a former refuser. She writes for wives struggling with sex and desire issues now. So, yes, change is possible.
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Post by unmatched on May 4, 2017 0:39:48 GMT -5
I have. Me. In a past life I was a refuser, not that I knew what that was at the time. I avoided it with my then fiancé (we broke up, not my current spouse). I remember thinking sex was a curse to torture women and that no self respecting woman would want it. I recognized that sex was important to a relationship but I didn't understand why and wished it wasnt. I grew and expanded my thinking. In that relationship I made a full turn around and tried to embrace sex and save the relationship. It was too late and he became the refuser. The relationship had a lot of other issues too so I ended it eventually. So yes, people can change such core things about themselves. The irony of now being in a SM is not lost on me. Looks like I got my wish for a sexless relationship 15 years too late lol. appleaday I would love to hear what you did or what happened to change that, if you ever have the time (and inclination) to write it down.
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Post by McRoomMate on May 4, 2017 2:53:40 GMT -5
I have no affirmative recommendations, but i can recommend that you avoid my coping strategy of choice which was heavy drinking. Been doing that for a few years already. Not out of control or destructive but enough to get by. Looking for alternatives though. This is called COPING MECHANISM and by its nature will be of HIGH RISK to result in SELF-DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR and MENTAL ILLNESS. An analogy would be treating the SYMPTOMS . . . NOT THE CAUSE. How do I know this? Well, it is MY EXPERIENCE. I tried everything - Alcohol, "other" substances, "outsourcing" . . . all temporary plugs, always for me only to wake up the next day even feeling worse. This is how people literally go crazy and lose it. I would also eventually expect the physical health to start deteriorating. The ONLY CURE knows to me is the famous "rigorous honesty" - which is of course much easier said than done. I suppose the fundamental question is does one still "LOVE" your W/H? Or is that so beat up and neglected that it died a slow death or otherwise on "artificial life support." Very very tough question to truly answer because in my experience gazing deep into my heart and soul it just becomes too deep to read. Assume you still love your W, then go with trying to work things out. I also bought into the "learning to love again your W" and "rekindling the spark" . . . that may work. In my case, my W did not give me the chance as I was quite honest with her about my lack of feelings but willingness to try and she just called it a waste of time and insulting. In any event, WELCOME ! ! ! and you are certainly not alone and lots and lots of good threads. Final little note . . . once you are googling "sexless marriage" is a fairly good and statistically likely sign that the SM is the default and no curable way forward (but there some success stories but by far very very low in percentages) - odds are highly against that happening - but not impossible. All the best and courage.
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Post by McRoomMate on May 4, 2017 2:59:56 GMT -5
Options: Get a vasectomy. She won't have to worry about getting pregnant & this could potentially double the times per month she's a willing participant. If she somehow hoped you two would procreate someday, then there really are a lot of other options for her to use birth control (though I took control of my own b.c. & it may or may not be smart to trust the refuser spouse on something like this). Counseling- joint & single. If she won't go to couple counselor then I'd believe she's entirely happy with once a month. Which leads us to: The only thing you can control is your own attitude. If you can, learn to accept that you will always have a marriage that has an asterisk.... "everything is great! *(well except the sex)" and she will have a marriage that she is, without exception, very happy with. Other possibilities: You can outsource. Paid prostitution or Tinder hookup or other free dating sites if you the "long term affair" approach. You can talk to her about a side relationship (that is: it lets her "off the hook" 3 out of 4 weekends a month). Or don't bring it up if she isn't likely to agree (don't want to "let on" if you think she wouldn't go for it) Either - she wants to change & if so, counseling may be effective. Or - she doesn't want to & in that case, your attitude is the only thing you have any influence on. I hate to be brutal but you are proposing Vasectomy, others proposed getting fat and reducing libido . . . Why not just be totally sure and go for CASTRATION ? ! ! Go visit Prostitutes? Well the risks are statistically low of catching HIV with proper condom use but again . . . COPING MECHANISMS and SELF-DENIAL. Look per my experience these are all roads to the Insane Asylum or worse. I hope I am not sounding judgmental - I mean this as one that took many of these paths and I am only sharing and warning in good faith what happened to me - maybe your experience will be different. Simple suggestion: Pray and gather COURAGE and be "RIGOROUSLY HONEST" with yourself . . . AKA "sorting your shit out".
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Post by McRoomMate on May 4, 2017 3:02:56 GMT -5
Are you still holding the line that - "everything is great bar the sex" Brother h ? Day 1: Me "everything is great bar the sex" Fast forward a few months and hours of self-examination and attempts at "sorting my shit out" Day 1 + X: Me "The sex is not that bad, but look at all the dysfunction and neuroses I have growing inside me and out." I feel better today than I have in a while by the way.
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Post by h on May 4, 2017 6:07:55 GMT -5
Are you still holding the line that - "everything is great bar the sex" Brother h ? Nope
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Post by h on May 4, 2017 6:19:39 GMT -5
Careful here. I have not moved to another bedroom, but I stopped all of those other pretenses a long time ago. I don't even wear my wedding ring anymore (that's actually a longer story - maybe later). No reaction; Nothing... Occasionally, when she is angry and itching to fight she will throw it out there that "I don't make her feel wanted" or she feels "unattractive". However, most of the time she is content to stay in her part of the house and me in mine. So, in this respect it was a backfire, inasmuch as it did not result in a desired change of attitude or behavior. I should point out it's not about forcing his wife to change. It's about reclaiming your selfhood. No longer acting like nothing is wrong with the relationship. If you allow status quo to continue, there will never be a change. If H's. wife respects him, it does not mean that she'll give him sex. H. will have respect for himself because he is no longer a willing participant in a crummy marriage. We first have to acknowledge a problem before we can fix it. BTW. I'm not leaving the bedroom. Why should I leave? She's the one who's attitude sucks. She can go to the spare bedroom!
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Post by greatcoastal on May 4, 2017 6:40:53 GMT -5
H, It's time to move to another bedroom. Don't continue playing the charade. Everything is not okay. Stop meeting your wife's needs. Stop the perfunctory "I love you" and the hugs and pecks on the cheeks. Go to work and leave without saying good-bye. Don't do it out of anger but do it to protect yourself emotionally. If your wife says something, then tell her you did not get married to have a roommate. If she wants a roommate, then you'll be one. You may be surprised how your wife starts to act. You grow some balls and she'll start to respect you more. The hypocrisy will eat you up. That's what killing you right now. You're playing along and feeling miserable about the marriage. Careful here. I have not moved to another bedroom, but I stopped all of those other pretenses a long time ago. I don't even wear my wedding ring anymore (that's actually a longer story - maybe later). No reaction; Nothing... Occasionally, when she is angry and itching to fight she will throw it out there that "I don't make her feel wanted" or she feels "unattractive". However, most of the time she is content to stay in her part of the house and me in mine. So, in this respect it was a backfire, inasmuch as it did not result in a desired change of attitude or behavior. "No reaction: Nothing" Why should there be? She got what she wanted! Now she doesn't have to give you crumbs. She has even more control. She's happy with giving you even less respect. "I don't make her feel wanted" or she feels "unattractive". More whining ,blaming, chipping away at any sense of independence you may be showing, by making you think that YOU are the cause of these problems. While she continues to play the innocent victim. (voice of experience)
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Post by McRoomMate on May 4, 2017 6:58:29 GMT -5
Are you still holding the line that - "everything is great bar the sex" Brother h ? Nope Well here is where I was - What is great and what is not so great. About a 1000 revisions - like digging into an Infinity "Onion" - peel a layer and there is a new layer . . . ad infinitum. My recently divorced buddy put it to me like this when I said "I had not tried enough" He looked at me and said. "Well the only way for sure you know you will have tried at 100% is when you are dead."
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