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Post by leifericson on Mar 5, 2017 20:16:41 GMT -5
This is a regular thing with my wife when we are going to go out to dinner.
Me: Where do you want to have dinner?
Her: I don't care. Pick a place.
Me: OK, lets go to Joes Italian
Her: No, I don't want to go there.
Me: OK lets go to Chinese.
Her: I don't feel like Chinese tonight.
Me: OK, lets go to the Greek Place.
Her: No, I don't like that place.
Me: OK, Lets go for Mexican.
Her: Not Mexican.
Me: OK, where do you want to go?
Her: Nowhere, lets eat in.
Me: (I reach way down and think of the most inconvenient place but something I know she's liked in the Past. How about......
Her: OK.
I know this isn't just my situation. This conversation is repeated in countless households by countless husbands. What the fuck is wrong with you ladies? Why can't YOU make a decision about where to eat? Why is it all on us men? Is this just a passive-aggressive built in female thing?
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Post by baza on Mar 5, 2017 20:39:12 GMT -5
Is this speaking to a wider concept, or is it truly about where and if you eat out ?
If you are talking about the wider principle here - that of avoidant peoples unwillingness to share the responsibility, collaborate, or to make a choice and own it, then I think you will find that this avoidant behaviour applies in many situations in an ILIASM shithole.
In fact, it infiltrates into most aspects of the relationship.
Here for example, her preferred position turns out to be to *XXXX*.
But you have to jump through 7 hoops to establish this fact.
Gets old after a while.
But, if this truly is about where to eat, I got to the point in my deal of eating before I got home so these exchanges didn't happen
0r - if I had a hankering for a gutful of Greek cuisine I'd say - "I'm going out for Greek Food. You wanna come ?" and that would then leave only one hoop to jump through, that being "when" and brought into play my missus inability to commit to a time and stick to it.
Addendum (before the ILIASM Sisters kick the shit out of me !) - I don't believe this is a gender specific issue.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 5, 2017 20:41:35 GMT -5
Sadly it doesn't end there my friend! Next comes the accusation, that you don't take control, you don't lead eneough! You shouldn't even ask her were she wants to go, your supposed to know and just do it! That way if she wants to complain about anything,real or made up, it's all going to be your fault!
It's known as a double bind.
It's also DARVO.
Deny:I don't care, pick a place.
Argue: I don't like that.
Reverse: No where, lets eat in.
Victim: I have to decide everything! (your a terrible communicator)
Offender: You need to lead, and be in touch with my feelings!
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Post by wom360 on Mar 5, 2017 21:51:58 GMT -5
This never happens to me. Then again, I don't ask where she wants to go. And if she says she doesn't want to go where I'm going, I offer to drop her at the house. If she makes a specific suggestion I always say yes. But absent a suggestion, we're eating where I want. I don't play games.
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Post by obobfla on Mar 5, 2017 23:02:44 GMT -5
My wife hates to eat out. I love eating out. After a week of seeing nothing but home and office, I need a change. So does my son. Saturday night, both my son and I wanted to eat out. She agrees, but says let's go to the Mexican restaurant near us. It's not that she's into Mexican food but that it's the closest restaurant near our house. I'm okay with that, but my son had his heart set on something with French fries. He suggests Chili's so we get our Tex Mex, but he gets his fries. I say fine, as my son had a rough week at school and needed a treat.
On the way there, my son complains of cramps. My wife insists that we turn arond and go home, but my son says he is fine. This goes on while I make two u-turns. Eventually, we find out Chili's has a 45-minute wait, so we talk our son into the Mexican restaurant. It turned out to be great as the burritos were much better than anything at Chili's. And they did have chicken tenders and fries on the menu.
The restaurant is pretty much our "taco truck on the corner." The people who run it are actually from Mexico. I eat a lot of ethnic food. It's been my experience that places where you hear equal amounts of Spanish and English is a sign of an excellent restaurant. But I could have done without the u-turns. Thankfully, my wife's fears did not ruin our evening this time.
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Post by kiltedpadre on Mar 5, 2017 23:38:42 GMT -5
The solution that seems to work for my wife and I is that we take turns with coming up with three options. Then the other person chooses from those three. From time to time none of the three sounds good to the other person. The good news is it at least gives us a better idea of what to suggest for an alternative since it generally gives an idea of the type of food they have in mind.
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Post by lyn on Mar 6, 2017 0:31:44 GMT -5
. Addendum (before the ILIASM Sisters kick the shit out of me !) - I don't believe this is a gender specific issue. Thanks Baz - didn't want to open this can o' worms myself...... yet, impossible to ignore. Definitely not gender specific. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 6, 2017 7:01:58 GMT -5
. Addendum (before the ILIASM Sisters kick the shit out of me !) - I don't believe this is a gender specific issue. Thanks Baz - didn't want to open this can o' worms myself...... yet, impossible to ignore. Definitely not gender specific. Correct! It certainly isn't! Listen to the beginning. "I don't care , pick a place", "lets go to the Italian restaurant" "I don't like that place" RED FLAG!! Time to stand up for yourself "nip it in the bud". Quote her and do not allow interruptions. You said," I don't care , pick a place". That's what I did, you then rejected me, and you take control. You continue to do this in other parts of our relationship. You show no respect for my logic, choices, and ideas. It's humiliating, and exhausting. This will not stand. I am going to the Italian restaurant, you are welcome to come along. You can stay home. (you are setting a boundary) Do you wan't me to bring you something? If she says yes, and doesn't tell you what she wants, you have to be on top of her tactics. Tell her immediately, I don't want to hear any complaints about what I bring you. That's not my problem. ( you are setting another boundary) You are setting boundaries, and enforcing them. "draw a line in the sand." It's very difficult, isn't it? It's like dealing with a child. Yet this is your spouse, who you are supposed to get respect from, and you want to fill their needs. Time to knock down that pedestal that she expects and you have mistakenly placed her on, and level the playing field. Sadly it doesn't end easily. You will continually be tested, and have curve ball after curve ball thrown at you. It gets old quick. That's when you have to decide, "is it worth it?" Stand up for yourself, Men and Woman, there's nothing wrong with getting the respect you deserve, over making simple choices. shrink4men.com/2012/04/05/putting-women-on-pedestals-dont-do-it/Just a side note. My wife declared, over 12 yrs ago, "eating out is getting to expensive, we need to cut way back, let's stop doing it". That ended things for years. That ended time to be together, and focused more and more on the children, and all there needs. The marriage got shoved further on the back burrner. Then came her FIL and more children adopted. She has full control of the budget. I would see money being spent in great amounts for kids activities, then came her daddy taking her out to eat all the time, so he could go himself since he can't drive. Meanwhile I am waiting for the day when the "we can't afford it ban" gets lifted. Never happened, not going to happen. Try to tell her the facts of the situation, she shuts down , avoids any responsibility, and denies it. She also claimed my conversations were just" useless dribble". No respect! who want's to remain with someone who treats you like that? |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 6, 2017 8:02:58 GMT -5
This isn't gender-specific. Your enabling this is not gender-specific either.
If this conversation is irritating, then stop continuing it. Try a different response (as already suggested). MEAN what you say & prove that you do by not back-pedaling when she changes up.
I had a problem with my Ex constantly interrupting me - every time I spoke. (I don't think that's exaggerating- I seriously feel like it was every time for about 3 years)
I took a risk & finally told him (not mid-interrupting) that it made me feel disrespected & could he please stop. He said he didn't realize he does it, but surely he did it rarely & he would try to stop.
When it next would happen - specifically with others around I was speaking to (stepkids most) - I didn't just let it slide anymore.
When he would start speaking over me, I would stop. Stop trying to finish my sentence.
Sometimes I would even do a very theatrical mout-snapping-shut motion. I would wait. I wouldn't speak. Eventually he would run out of things. I would ask, are you finished interrupting? Can I finish what I was saying? It's ok if not. It may not matter to you what I was saying.
He got the point. It just didn't matter to him. He did stop interrupting in front of the kids.
This is a great analogy though.
Everything's great bar the dinner decision.
Everything's great bar the communication.
Everything's great bar the fact she expects me to read her mind, coddle her, continually jump around trying to please this enigma conversation wrapped in mysterious code that I can't understand.
You must be the adult. Set & maintain whatever boundary on this that's right for you.
If she says, wherever I don't care. Just wait. Don't guess. Don't jump through hoops.
Option 1) say where you want to go. "I don't like that" then say - well you don't have to go. That's where I want to go. You said you don't care but I guess you really do. I'm going there, though. Want me to go to a drive they for you in the way back.
Or - if you don't have a preference- option 2) she says I don't care. You say: I think you do, & I will wait for you to figure out your real preference. I will not decide. I will wait &/or help you debate but I'm letting you decide tonight. However long this takes - I'm not deciding tonight. You decide.
You seriously do this few times, her behavior will change. The most dedicated refusers will keep testing though. So you have to be consistent.
Good luck - it's an excellent experiment, actually.
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Post by cagedtiger on Mar 9, 2017 11:32:44 GMT -5
I found when this happened in my relationship, it was due to her very, very narrow comfort zone when it came to both places to go and types of cuisine. It got to the point where I'd just go get her what she wanted from whichever of the 3 restaurants she likes, then either get something else I liked, or cook something. The hardest part of that was becoming immune to the guilt trips she'd try and instill because I didn't want to eat the same things as her, and more often than not, would be choosing much healthier options.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 9, 2017 11:58:15 GMT -5
GOOD stuff in this thread.  Blaming it on gender takes the responsibility out of HER hands. It's HER deal. Not "all females." I loved GeekGoddess's suggestion and highly recommend you do that. WE have to be direct and honest, too. If you are tired of playing the game, stop participating. |
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Post by h on Apr 28, 2017 5:48:31 GMT -5
And then, after a string of rejected options, it turns into an argument with me being the bad guy at the end of it. It's not just for restaurants either. I do all the cooking in our house and she won't tell me what she wants me to make. She wants me to give her options to choose from but she doesn't like any of them.
Me: "What do you want and I will see if I can make it?"
Her: "What do we have and I will see if I want it?"
(I tell her a few options)
After each one: "I'm not in the mood for that..."
The struggle is real!
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Post by GeekGoddess on Apr 28, 2017 6:11:33 GMT -5
And then, after a string of rejected options, it turns into an argument with me being the bad guy at the end of it. It's not just for restaurants either. I do all the cooking in our house and she won't tell me what she wants me to make. She wants me to give her options to choose from but she doesn't like any of them. Me: "What do you want and I will see if I can make it?" Her: "What do we have and I will see if I want it?" (I tell her a few options) After each one: "I'm not in the mood for that..." The struggle is real! Try: Name 2 (or 3) options. Not in the mood for those? Ok I will make what I want. You're a big girl, you'll figure it out when you're hungry later. Stop catering to her on this kind of crap. And especially stop if it makes you want to complain about it. She (they) use this sort of stuff to reinforce our habit of running around trying to please them. Reinforces our inferiority that we can't come up with something they want. Tough titties. You don't like what I'm offering the go without. (Oh how it applies to the bedroom tho!) But overdoing for a refuser in the non-bedroom issues will not convince them to take care of the sex life. So desist. Especially if it's frustrating you. |
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Post by h on Apr 28, 2017 7:26:40 GMT -5
And then, after a string of rejected options, it turns into an argument with me being the bad guy at the end of it. It's not just for restaurants either. I do all the cooking in our house and she won't tell me what she wants me to make. She wants me to give her options to choose from but she doesn't like any of them. Me: "What do you want and I will see if I can make it?" Her: "What do we have and I will see if I want it?" (I tell her a few options) After each one: "I'm not in the mood for that..." The struggle is real! Try: Name 2 (or 3) options. Not in the mood for those? Ok I will make what I want. You're a big girl, you'll figure it out when you're hungry later. Stop catering to her on this kind of crap. And especially stop if it makes you want to complain about it. She (they) use this sort of stuff to reinforce our habit of running around trying to please them. Reinforces our inferiority that we can't come up with something they want. Tough titties. You don't like what I'm offering the go without. (Oh how it applies to the bedroom tho!) But overdoing for a refuser in the non-bedroom issues will not convince them to take care of the sex life. So desist. Especially if it's frustrating you. Oh, I have stopped playing that losing game. I'm new here and just going through old threads. This one made me laugh. If she doesn't like my first 3 options, and doesn't offer an alternative, I eat fridge leftovers and she has cereal. Didn't mean to sound whiney but I thought I would pile on to what I consider a joke now.😃 |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Apr 28, 2017 8:04:26 GMT -5
My H only ever wants to eat in the one Chinese restaurant on the rare times we go out. It's a struggle and not just the ladies who are difficult
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