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Post by rejected101 on Jan 8, 2017 20:08:28 GMT -5
A couple of my posts have have drawn comments about expecting sex when someone really isn't in the mood. The phrase starfish sex which I presume is laying motionless and taking it has been used. I don't advocate forcing sex on someone who really doesn't want to regardless of whether they reluctantly consent or not. Not in any way shape or form! My view is relatively simple when it comes to sex (my view which of course is not fact just my view!)
Sex drive is more complex than:
In the mood for sex
or
Not in the mood for sex
I personally have been neither of the above many many times. Not horny but when invited to play was happy to agree. Real examples of this have happened several times over the years. Flopped in to bed just wanting to go to sleep, 10 minutes later wife initiates and I agree. Just because I wasn't feeling horny, just because I was ready to sleep does not mean that I couldn't have and enjoy sex with my partner. I am sure my refuser for a large % of the time is refusing simply because she is happy without and NOT because she really does not want to or can't. It's not out of spite that she refuses, it's not even deliberate its more about complacency than anything else.
The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive.
I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it.
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Post by jim44444 on Jan 8, 2017 20:54:20 GMT -5
. The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive. I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. Well said. I cannot count the times my W has remarked (after the fact) that she wasn't in the mood to start. So why not go along more and quit saying no so often? |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 8, 2017 20:58:10 GMT -5
. The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive. I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. Well said. I cannot count the times my W has remarked (after the fact) that she wasn't in the mood to start. So why not go along more and quit saying no so often? Exactly! Mine too. And is there ever any sign they regretted it? No! None! |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 8, 2017 21:38:43 GMT -5
Here's a true story to example this. A few years ago wife and I were having a really dry year. Once a month would have looked wet compared to this. Sex happened once every 6-8 weeks at best. Anyway, we had sex on Christmas Day that year. 9 weeks went past! 9 weeks of wondering and hoping until bang she fancied a quick romp. Lovely I thought and away we went. 2 days later I initiated by text again hoping that 9 weeks wasn't starting over again. I got a typical reply. "Not really in the mood babe but maybe". Got home from work and she told me she was tired and just fancied watching a DVD with me that night. Never mind I thought disappointedly. That night laying on the sofa cuddling watching the DVD and my hands started wandering (oops) and to my amazement she was receptive. Receptive became very receptive! Here we go again! Lovely I thought! Half an hour later it's all finished and wow, I felt great she seemed to have loved it. She says to me 'I didn't even fancy it tonight but I thought I'd try and I'm bloody glad I did' with a huge smile. There I am feeling on top of the world! We watched the remaining hour of the film and went to bed. Guess what little miss horny wanted as soon as we got in to bed! You guessed it. All over me like nobody's business again! Next morning she admitted to me that often she doesn't put time aside for sex as she is perfectly happy to go without it. There is a huge part of my problem!
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 8, 2017 21:46:21 GMT -5
I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. Agreed. But of course multiple flavors abound. Some refusers are like you describe -- they enjoy it if you can get them to do it. Some refuse adamantly, whether they enjoy sex or not. At best they would do it grudgingly and act like they were doing you a favor. And there are others who don't enjoy it and don't want it, but refuse to admit it. They give a thinly-veiled performance, only when they must. They're in denial; everything about their actions screams "intimacy averse", but they swear everything is great. Probably because they realize that admitting the facts means divorce. I'd suggest that your situation sounds extremely reparable, if you can get your wife to work on why she's unmotivated. At least there seems to be some spark there, and intimacy is a pleasant experience for her. I daresay even the 'scheduled sex' approach might help. |
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Post by baza on Jan 8, 2017 22:07:08 GMT -5
The more of your posts I read, the more confused I get Brother rejected.
This is now reading like a "jaded marriage" rather than an ILIASM shithole, and under those circumstances you'd figure that a policy of scented candles type strategies ought alter the dynamic significantly.
Actually, the scented candles approach is a very good litmus test.
Executed properly, it will work (if you are dealing with a jaded marriage) and it won't work (if you are in an ILIASM shithole)
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 9, 2017 6:24:19 GMT -5
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 9, 2017 7:08:40 GMT -5
Just read that article. It sums it up perfectly!! Literally perfectly! |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 9, 2017 7:20:21 GMT -5
The more of your posts I read, the more confused I get Brother rejected. This is now reading like a "jaded marriage" rather than an ILIASM shithole, and under those circumstances you'd figure that a policy of scented candles type strategies ought alter the dynamic significantly. Actually, the scented candles approach is a very good litmus test. Executed properly, it will work (if you are dealing with a jaded marriage) and it won't work (if you are in an ILIASM shithole) . At the risk of rubbing salt in some people's wounds (I hope not) I have a very good marriage in general. The only place it has come a cropper is in the sex department and unfortunately that has started leading to other issues before. Those other issues have generally always been cleared up by talking, by empathising, understanding and ultimately, where necessary, compromise. Sex is such a uniquely difficult issue to resolve though. It's so complex. It can be connection issues, hormonal issues, physical issues, attitude issues and so on and so on. I strive for more sex not because I'm just a horny bugger but because sex is an incredibly important part of a relationship to me. To me it shouldn't be how you make babies and or what you do with you are horny. It isn't as important to others of course which is unfortunate but to me a relationship without or with a once a month romp is as bad as one where your not willing to put any time aside to see and be with your partner. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 9, 2017 9:59:15 GMT -5
I am sure my refuser for a large % of the time is refusing simply because she is happy without and NOT because she really does not want to or can't. The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive. I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. My X and I were having the 5th or 6th "talk" about the lack of intimacy and sex when she relayed this same response. The response being she enjoyed herself, especially if her orgasm was intense. She was seldom (roughly every 3 months) in the mood but when she went along in between she told me afterwards that it was nice and she slept better. But after countless refusals it got to the place where the emotional connection became harder and harder for me to make as the effort to bring her around to the idea of doing more than sleep when it got dark outside. took more and more work. And often if she really wasn't interested a few insults as to my true motivations usually ended things. So instead of the positive affirmation of the love we should be sharing it became just something we did. And eventually the lack of intimacy started affecting other aspects of the relationship. We are divorced now but remain friends who kiss and share other forms of intimacy, and occasionally have sex. Maybe this is a scenario you might envision as a future for yourself. |
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Post by iceman on Jan 9, 2017 12:09:52 GMT -5
For the past few years any sex happened not because my wife was horny and had any desire for sex. It was because she was not adamantly opposed to it for whatever reason and was agreeable to it if I really wanted it. Not really much of a turn on for me. As you can imagine the sex in situations like that is less than satisfying and actually is worse than no sex at all. After a while I just lost my desire to have sex with somebody that, while agreeable, had no interest and would have been just as happy to simply going to sleep. Now since I'm not expressing any desire for the situation she's convinced that I must have someone on the side. If only ... While I think I would be justified to having someone on the side I find it really insulting and arrogant on her part to think that if I'm not sniffing around after my wife and accepting whatever sexual crumbs she's willing to give me that I must be getting sex from someone else.
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 9, 2017 12:27:12 GMT -5
A couple of my posts have have drawn comments about expecting sex when someone really isn't in the mood. The phrase starfish sex which I presume is laying motionless and taking it has been used. I don't advocate forcing sex on someone who really doesn't want to regardless of whether they reluctantly consent or not. Not in any way shape or form! My view is relatively simple when it comes to sex (my view which of course is not fact just my view!) Sex drive is more complex than: In the mood for sex or Not in the mood for sex I personally have been neither of the above many many times. Not horny but when invited to play was happy to agree. Real examples of this have happened several times over the years. Flopped in to bed just wanting to go to sleep, 10 minutes later wife initiates and I agree. Just because I wasn't feeling horny, just because I was ready to sleep does not mean that I couldn't have and enjoy sex with my partner. I am sure my refuser for a large % of the time is refusing simply because she is happy without and NOT because she really does not want to or can't. It's not out of spite that she refuses, it's not even deliberate its more about complacency than anything else. The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive. I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. "It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it." Responsive Desire. Very high percentage of women fall under this category. Where most males simply have sexual urges daily, women (not all) most often feel sexual urge in RESPONSE to something. ie: foreplay. So Yes, there are occasions when people say they're not in the mood, but if they just get started, all of a sudden they're in the mood. This may be what you're referring to as "Can, but won't." You call it complacency. I call it low libido. Because there is a difference between In the mood for sex and Not in the mood for sex She still does not feel the urge. Sure, she can participate without the urge. Enjoy it? Maybe sometimes. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 9, 2017 16:40:33 GMT -5
You use the word "complacent" again. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
We are talking sex and intimacy in your marriage. You know, the only person on the planet who you promised to fill this God given need, and have filled by only them, for the rest of your life!
We are not talking about, will you let the dog out, or I forgot the salt, would you get it? Those are things you can do with anyone at anytime.
Perhaps you need to stop making excuses for your wife, take her down from her pedestal, and approach this on a level playing field. If she is too afraid, or in complete denial that she is doing anything wrong, you now have a road map of things to come.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 9, 2017 19:49:08 GMT -5
A couple of my posts have have drawn comments about expecting sex when someone really isn't in the mood. The phrase starfish sex which I presume is laying motionless and taking it has been used. I don't advocate forcing sex on someone who really doesn't want to regardless of whether they reluctantly consent or not. Not in any way shape or form! My view is relatively simple when it comes to sex (my view which of course is not fact just my view!) Sex drive is more complex than: In the mood for sex or Not in the mood for sex I personally have been neither of the above many many times. Not horny but when invited to play was happy to agree. Real examples of this have happened several times over the years. Flopped in to bed just wanting to go to sleep, 10 minutes later wife initiates and I agree. Just because I wasn't feeling horny, just because I was ready to sleep does not mean that I couldn't have and enjoy sex with my partner. I am sure my refuser for a large % of the time is refusing simply because she is happy without and NOT because she really does not want to or can't. It's not out of spite that she refuses, it's not even deliberate its more about complacency than anything else. The difference between 'I really don't want to do this' and 'actually I was perfectly happy not to tonight' is massive. I have previously used the phrase 'it's not that she can't it's that she won't'. It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it. "It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it." Responsive Desire. Very high percentage of women fall under this category. Where most males simply have sexual urges daily, women (not all) most often feel sexual urge in RESPONSE to something. ie: foreplay. So Yes, there are occasions when people say they're not in the mood, but if they just get started, all of a sudden they're in the mood. This may be what you're referring to as "Can, but won't." You call it complacency. I call it low libido. Because there is a difference between In the mood for sex and Not in the mood for sex She still does not feel the urge. Sure, she can participate without the urge. Enjoy it? Maybe sometimes. why 'enjoy it maybe sometimes'. |
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 10, 2017 10:40:35 GMT -5
"It is often the case that people won't make an effort to do something unless they need or wanted to first. But just because they didn't need to or have an urge to want to does not mean you can't participate and enjoy it." Responsive Desire. Very high percentage of women fall under this category. Where most males simply have sexual urges daily, women (not all) most often feel sexual urge in RESPONSE to something. ie: foreplay. So Yes, there are occasions when people say they're not in the mood, but if they just get started, all of a sudden they're in the mood. This may be what you're referring to as "Can, but won't." You call it complacency. I call it low libido. Because there is a difference between In the mood for sex and Not in the mood for sex She still does not feel the urge. Sure, she can participate without the urge. Enjoy it? Maybe sometimes. why 'enjoy it maybe sometimes'. Enjoy it sometimes. Meaning low libido doesn't mean non-existent libido in some cases. For me, I have always been low. I have never been with anyone with a lower libido than I. So sometimes I had an initial urge to have sex. Sometimes I didn't feel an urge, but eventually had responsive desire. Sometimes I felt neither. The older I got, the less I had the initial urge. Then it was mostly responsive desire. Now, it's neither. My point is, a person can enjoy sex even if they don't think they want to have sex at that particular moment, yes. (The can, but won't. Per your statement) But for LL's -- or let me speak about myself only. Sometimes, yes, there was enjoyment even when I didn't particularly feel an initial urge. Sometimes there wasn't. Enjoy it? Maybe sometimes. |
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