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Post by blujay on Jan 3, 2023 13:52:42 GMT -5
blujay: "If I left, why would I be here? I'd be on a dating site instead. I'm trying again and I see that there must be more acceptance of the "choosing to stay" option?" I agree With mirrorchild’s suggestion to add a tag line to your posts. I hope others in your boat will also use that suggestion. FWIW, however, I found the precursor to this site a week after my divorce (from my 34-year marriage, the last 8 years of which were completely sex free) became final. I still have found this site very helpful as it reminds me of how far I’ve come. I wish I’d found it long before divorcing because there’s lots of useful info here that would have allowed me realize far earlier that I was normal wanting sex in a marriage. I also would have found the various advice here helpful including the fact that divorce doesn’t necessarily mean one is financially screwed, and the first visit to many lawyers is free. Instead, I had to learn on my own much of the info here about both finding ways to flourish while being in a SM, and how to get out of a SM. And even though I've now been 9.5 years in a committed romantic and sexual relationship with a wonderful guy, I still find information here that helps me navigate my life. Long post ahead, yikes. Thank you for the suggestion. Divorce is always an option, of course, but not for me, not for now but I don't know if I should add this to my profile. Things may change, I may divorce at some point, but likey, if that happens, it would not be because of the lack of sex, or at least not only because of that. I was looking to hear stories about how one copes mentally when they are IN a dead bedroom marriage. It's just that some people in the past got a bit too pushy on the divorce idea, which is one of the choices but not the only choice and they make it sound like you're weak if you stay and you're strong if you leave. I don't think I wanted to feel talked down and pushed. It's not because of being religious, or because I'll have financial issues. I actually am VERY non-religious. Also, since you mention some resistance folks have to divorce, I have divorced before, which typically makes people be less afraid of divorce the second time around, since they've been there and survived. Last time I divorced, in 2009, my situation was way worse than it is now. If I divoced tomorrow I'll be poorer, but still firmly in the middle class. I'd have a house, an income, a retirement account and no debt. I think when divorce happens it is not just for one reason. When divorce doesn't happen, the reluctance to go for it is also not just for one reason. For me, there are a lot of things that are involved in "blowing up one's current life", including financials of course (better with more than with less), the major changes, having less energy for such changes at age 51 than I had at 37. More importantly, the reason I don't look to divorce as an option right now is because I don't believe it is my husband's fault for not giving me sex, and I am not angry with him. He has health issues. Sure, some may say that he didn't take care of himself, but I knew who he was in terms of taking care of himself before I married him. I just didn't think sex would stop as soon as it did, which is on me. I don't ascribe him bad intentions. I don't think he should be abandoned because of his medical issues, and even any psychological issues (unless those make him dangerous or very unpleasant to be around), and I love him and care for him, he is mine and he is family. I realize situations are different and other people's sex lives died for different other reasons, and the reasons make a lot of difference. I know he can't give me what I want, and I don't want him to do anything he doesn't want to do, even if it hurts. I was close to divorce in 2019, but it was because of other issues we had. We weren't getting along because of my son (typical blended family issues, where the step parent thinks the bio parent needs to be more severe, give the kid(s) less money or whatever), and my husband was sometimes lashing out and being hurtful. At that time I was very close to divorce and I actually went out and bought a house, under the guise of "it would be good to have a rental property". The motivation in that case was the following: "I don't care who is right and who is wrong in the husband-son conflict. If they can't get along to the extent that: 1. my adult son doesn't feel he has a home to come to when he feels the need and 2. I have to live in an unbearable tension with a cranky husband, I just can't live like this. If I have to live in tension with an angry man, or choose between my son and my husband, I will 100% choose my son over and over and over again, even if my son is wrong, heck even if he's a thief. He's my son, he will always come first, choosing my husband would mean choosing myself". That was a very strong motivation for me, and I gave myself a mental deadline, after which I will leave if things don't improve. Things improved and overall I have a very comfortable life, our relationship is good, I feel we have a good partnership, except I long for sex, for touch, for romantic affection. In this case it's just about me, not about anyone else and as long as he's kind to me and my son, and does not try to stop me from doing whatever I want to do within reason, I can live with it, for now. I say for now because you never know when you've had enough and can't do it anymore. Also, about outsourcing, I said elsewhere, I very strongly considered it, but it's a no go, after lots of research, unless it is with his blessing, which I may ask for at some point. If I have to hide and lie, it will not work for me. First of all you need to lie to everyone, not just to the husband. You can't tell anyone so there is loneliness in that situation, and I couldn't just lie nonstop, it's just not me. Then, if you do fall in love with your affair partner, you can't have them anyway, so more pain (I would only date married people, single people can blow up your life as a cheater). It's not a lifestyle I would like to have. One night stands are also NOT what I want. I miss affection not merely a penis. Finally, perhaps my pain is not as high as other HL partners here. I always only had sex once a week, even in my first marriage, except for vacations, when it would be daily. My ex initiated most sex and I never refused him, and I was content with that amount, even if I was much younger then. I read here that some people consider that to be too little. Now that I'm over 50, I'd be happy to every other week. Heck, I'll be happy with once a month! I think my libido may not be as high as others and thus my pain not as high either. Is the same as when skinny people tell me (not super fat, but not a skinny person- overweight not obese) or other fatter people to eat less. Bitch, you aren't as hungry as I am, you only eat two carrots at our get togethers, you're just not hungry, you don't have the cravings, so shut up. So in this case, I may be the skinny person, so I don't fault people who outsource, or divorce or whatever works for them, I probably do not understand their pain well.
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Post by blujay on Jan 3, 2023 14:01:19 GMT -5
blujay: "If I left, why would I be here? I'd be on a dating site instead. I'm trying again and I see that there must be more acceptance of the "choosing to stay" option?" I agree With mirrorchild’s suggestion to add a tag line to your posts. I hope others in your boat will also use that suggestion. FWIW, however, I found the precursor to this site a week after my divorce (from my 34-year marriage, the last 8 years of which were completely sex free) became final. I still have found this site very helpful as it reminds me of how far I’ve come. I wish I’d found it long before divorcing because there’s lots of useful info here that would have allowed me realize far earlier that I was normal wanting sex in a marriage. I also would have found the various advice here helpful including the fact that divorce doesn’t necessarily mean one is financially screwed, and the first visit to many lawyers is free. Instead, I had to learn on my own much of the info here about both finding ways to flourish while being in a SM, and how to get out of a SM. And even though I've now been 9.5 years in a committed romantic and sexual relationship with a wonderful guy, I still find information here that helps me navigate my life. Hi Northstarmom, I'm so glad you are happy and the site helped. I see how the site has helped because indeed there is a lot of support for people who decide to leave a sexless situation, which is a great thing! I understand the doubt, the pain, and the confusion, even the guilt related to wanting to leave for sex, when many may condemn you for leaving a family for frivolous reasons. It is indeed an 100% valid reason to leave and honestly I wish the refusers would at least acknowledge that and always give the outsourcing as an option. If not comfortable with that, at least accept that regardless of whether or not they have valid reasons to refuse sex, your HL partner leaving has an excellent reason for doing so. They signed up for monogamy, not celibacy, so one has to be self aware enough to understand that and not take it personally, just take it as incompatibility and go out to find other asexual people to marry.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jan 3, 2023 18:17:24 GMT -5
Welcome. Im also in the "stayin but strayin" camp. Everyone has the their own journey to travel thats right for them. This place has some tough love. But I see that as a plus. Glad you came back. Look forward to hearing more from you. Hello, I've been on this forum in the past, but I left because it just seems that everyone says you must leave and I don't find that supportive at all. If I left, why would I be here? I'd be on a dating site instead. I'm trying again and I see that there must be more acceptance of the "choosing to stay" option?
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 3, 2023 18:24:18 GMT -5
Blujay: If you want suggestions about how to flourish while staying in your SM, you could start a thread on that in the Choosing to Stay area. Even people who eventually divorced probably have ideas because some of us found happiness (including without having affairs) before we left our marriages. Also, most people who are here, including the divorced old timers, originally planned to stay in their marriages so most of us have experience in learning to flourish despite not having a partner who is sexual with us.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jan 6, 2023 13:36:21 GMT -5
bluejay, a good observation about how single individuals can wreck your facade. When I finally went down that road, I knew I had to find someone who stood to lose as much as I did to ensure no waves. Of course, I overestimated what I stood to lose, but whatever. I had to plot. It wasn't JUST about sex, but doing the math in my head. How much work will this be? Will it be worth it? What if THAT sex is bad? What if it's too good? Lots of variables.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 10, 2023 20:44:59 GMT -5
...Divorce is always an option, of course, but not for me, not for now but I don't know if I should add this to my profile. ... about outsourcing, I said elsewhere, I very strongly considered it, but it's a no go, after lots of research, unless it is with his blessing, which I may ask for at some point. If I have to hide and lie, it will not work for me. First of all you need to lie to everyone, not just to the husband. You can't tell anyone so there is loneliness in that situation, and I couldn't just lie nonstop, it's just not me. Then, if you do fall in love with your affair partner, you can't have them anyway, so more pain (I would only date married people, single people can blow up your life as a cheater). Finally, perhaps my pain is not as high as other HL partners here. I always only had sex once a week, even in my first marriage, except for vacations, when it would be daily. My ex initiated most sex and I never refused him, and I was content with that amount, even if I was much younger then. I read here that some people consider that to be too little. Now that I'm over 50, I'd be happy to every other week. Heck, I'll be happy with once a month! I think my libido may not be as high as others and thus my pain not as high either. Is the same as when skinny people tell me (not super fat, but not a skinny person- overweight not obese) or other fatter people to eat less. Bitch, you aren't as hungry as I am, you only eat two carrots at our get togethers, you're just not hungry, you don't have the cravings, so shut up. So in this case, I may be the skinny person, so I don't fault people who outsource, or divorce or whatever works for them, I probably do not understand their pain well. The status bar of the profile can change as your situation does. Under my avatar picture is my status: "Formerly sexless. SM in remission, Nov. 2019" I could change that right now to: "Divorced" or "Sexless since January 2023", if either of those were my new reality. That is where you could say something like: "Divorce not currently an option for me. Thank you for coping advice only." The status changes when you change it, even on old posts.
Just making sure you're not missing the middle ground since I really am not seeing you say it. 1) Secretive Outsourcing / "Cheating" - necessitates the lying, sneaking you don't want to deal with. 2) Consensual non-monogamy - the ideal, if you can get it. 3) Informed non-monogamy - your spouse knows about it, but doesn't approve. You can do as you please and explain to anyone nosy enough to ask, or do your best to stay discrete to avoid such annoying drama, or anywhere in between, even offering to modify what you do at your spouse's request. (Never in your own house, eat out ayt restaurants 10 miles out of town, etc.) I'd expect most refusers to turn down any request for consent, and many opt for option 1. Option 3 avoids much of the hassle you would hate. jerri took this road, taking special care to treat her husband especially well to demonstrate she still loved him. It seemed to be working for her, until COVID. I was going to take that road, and my wife hard reset instead. Baza would warn that announcing outsourcing can trigger a divorce by the soon-to-be cuckold. Some refusers insist on celibate marriage. Be ready to put the marriage on the line. (Another reason people opt for secrecy/"cheating".)
Coping with a sexless marriage you assume isn't going to change and you don't plan to end looks a lot to me like people planning to leave. There's plenty of overlap. They spend less time with their refuser, engaging hobbies, gym workouts, social gatherings (e.g. Meetup.com), a second career, home improvement/remodeling, charity work, looking up old friends. All of these are very useful for filling your time if you suddenly don't have a spouse to while away the hours. northstarmom 's community theater distraction is where she accidentally met her current life partner. Co-dependency may be behind some of the difficulty of sexless marriages. Your spouse is such a big part of your life but being around them reminds you of what you don't have and you might do better if you have a lot else. As people build separate lives, they can rendezvous with their spouse to catch up on things, which can be pleasant, or the idea of adding a lover to their full lives reaches a a tipping point, either via divorce, or one of the three options for outsourcing. (which may or may not be followed by divorce)
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Post by quickbeam on Jan 11, 2023 15:25:02 GMT -5
Hello! I just read about this forum in the Washington Post. I am a bisexual woman in a 36 year marriage with my husband. I have a high libido and early in the marriage he was an enthusiastic partner. However after about 2 years he stopped having any sexual interest at all. In the mid 1990s he was diagnosed as having a spectrum disorder (Asperger’s at the time). From the huge amount of research I’ve done, it is not uncommon for men on the spectrum to just lose interest. I’ve explored many other of avenues of intimacy with him and he is not interested. I have broached the prospect of opening our marriage and he is horrified.
It seems to me the low drive person holds all the cards. I’ve learned to create a circle of friends as well as a long term therapy relationship to deal with my disappointment.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 11, 2023 15:35:54 GMT -5
quickbeam, welcome! I was married for 34 years, the last 8 of which were completely sexless as were many others. Others included once a year sex.
When you read the forums here, you'll learn that actually the low drive person doesn't hold all of the cards. The higher drive person also has cards. They can choose to divorce, to outsource with or without their partner's approval and they also can decide that there are so many benefits to the marriage that they would prefer to remain married and celibate.
What most of us here have learned through personal experience and through reading here is it's usually impossible to make a low or no-drive person a really sexual person. Individual therapy can help you decide what's the right choice for you.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Jan 13, 2023 13:26:48 GMT -5
Hello! I just read about this forum in the Washington Post. I am a bisexual woman in a 36 year marriage with my husband. I have a high libido and early in the marriage he was an enthusiastic partner. However after about 2 years he stopped having any sexual interest at all. In the mid 1990s he was diagnosed as having a spectrum disorder (Asperger’s at the time). From the huge amount of research I’ve done, it is not uncommon for men on the spectrum to just lose interest. I’ve explored many other of avenues of intimacy with him and he is not interested. I have broached the prospect of opening our marriage and he is horrified. It seems to me the low drive person holds all the cards. I’ve learned to create a circle of friends as well as a long term therapy relationship to deal with my disappointment. Since you are bisexual would he be less threatened if you opened up to women partners only..if that goes ok down the road might be able to get it opened up to males also. Just a thought. Either way welcome, I hope you find some answers and solace here.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jan 13, 2023 16:22:22 GMT -5
Welcome quickbeam. Catchy name :-) It sucks you found your way here. But thanks for sharing your story and adding it to the collective quilt of experince that our motley community has stitched together over the years. You will find some wisdom, comradery and I wont lie, some tough love here at different times. But most of all, when you look around the forums and choose to "hang out", I hope you find some peace and comfort that will make your situation less burdensome as the case may be. Hello! I just read about this forum in the Washington Post. I am a bisexual woman in a 36 year marriage with my husband. I have a high libido and early in the marriage he was an enthusiastic partner. However after about 2 years he stopped having any sexual interest at all. In the mid 1990s he was diagnosed as having a spectrum disorder (Asperger’s at the time). From the huge amount of research I’ve done, it is not uncommon for men on the spectrum to just lose interest. I’ve explored many other of avenues of intimacy with him and he is not interested. I have broached the prospect of opening our marriage and he is horrified. It seems to me the low drive person holds all the cards. I’ve learned to create a circle of friends as well as a long term therapy relationship to deal with my disappointment.
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Post by holdfast on Jan 15, 2023 16:56:06 GMT -5
Hello. I'm still in love with my wife after 33 years of marriage, and choosing to stay though it has been sexless for the past 8 years. Have been working with a therapist since waking up to this reality about 18 months ago, couples therapy too for about a year so far.
Found this forum a few weeks ago and have been lurking. It has been eye-opening to realize the breadth and depth of experiences. Some of it has been very helpful as I consider alternatives and untangle my feelings. Thanks to all for sharing thoughtfully, honestly, with humor and humility in a painful journey.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 15, 2023 17:36:58 GMT -5
welcome to the forum holdfast,...For many of us the staying option was our 1st choice. But for many if became untenable as not only the intimacy vanished but also the respect needed between couples. And you are right about eye opening. I have seen all sorts of couples and relationships, that ended up sexless. It seems no one is immune. I wish you well as you continue to educate yourself and as you find your way to what will work for you going forward.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Jan 15, 2023 22:29:01 GMT -5
holdfast Welcome to the club no one wants to belong to. I hope you choose to stay with us and share more of your story on the choosing to stay thread.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 15, 2023 22:38:59 GMT -5
Hello. I'm still in love with my wife after 33 years of marriage, and choosing to stay though it has been sexless for the past 8 years. Have been working with a therapist since waking up to this reality about 18 months ago, couples therapy too for about a year so far. Found this forum a few weeks ago and have been lurking. It has been eye-opening to realize the breadth and depth of experiences. Some of it has been very helpful as I consider alternatives and untangle my feelings. Thanks to all for sharing thoughtfully, honestly, with humor and humility in a painful journey. Welcome. Looking forward to hearing more of your story. I'm new here also. Like you I have found this place to be a good source of information and knowledge. (I'm 37 years of marriage; 30 of them meeting the sexless definition).
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Post by holdfast on Jan 16, 2023 16:32:21 GMT -5
holdfast Welcome to the club no one wants to belong to. I hope you choose to stay with us and share more of your story on the choosing to stay thread. Thanks angeleyes65, I'll shift to that thread to post further. I'm seeing lots of helpful posts on the other boards as well.
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